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#3898967 - 01/21/14 08:26 AM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: PN79
Does SA-6 has anything to overcome ALE-50 like SA-3 or this system can't do anything against it?


And what SA-3 have against ALE-50?...


Manual target tracking.
smile

A well trained human operator knows that the ALE-50 is always behind the target.

Basicly ALE-50 was designed against the SA-6/10.

Last edited by Hpasp; 01/21/14 08:28 AM.

Hpasp
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#3899080 - 01/21/14 02:50 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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Or instead of using a SA-6 you could use a SA-2 with nuclear-tipped missiles biggrin

LoL, just kidding. biggrin

#3899822 - 01/22/14 06:19 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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PN79 Offline
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Thanks Hpasp for answer. And do you know if SA-10 with semi-active guided missiles (5V55R etc.) has any solution for it? I suppose that older command guided 5V55K could overcome it like SA-2 and SA-3.

#3899861 - 01/22/14 07:17 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: PN79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: PN79
Thanks Hpasp for answer. And do you know if SA-10 with semi-active guided missiles (5V55R etc.) has any solution for it? I suppose that older command guided 5V55K could overcome it like SA-2 and SA-3.


More missiles than ALE-50 biggrin


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#3900445 - 01/23/14 06:41 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: PN79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: PN79
Thanks Hpasp for answer. And do you know if SA-10 with semi-active guided missiles (5V55R etc.) has any solution for it? I suppose that older command guided 5V55K could overcome it like SA-2 and SA-3.


The S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B) has manual target tracking capability...
(3 similar indicator at the bottom right)



... but it can track only 1 target at one time.

Generally its a better idea to similarly track both incoming Weasel and launch 2x2 missiles parallelly against them.
With the 5V55R missile 75km range and Mach6 speed, can easily outpace any HARM.
(still have 4 empty channel for incoming HARM or other targets)


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#3900503 - 01/23/14 08:22 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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PN79 Offline
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Really interesting. Thanks.

#3900515 - 01/23/14 08:47 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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Hpasp, the SA-10B would require an own topic. It's a really interesting system.

#3900704 - 01/24/14 07:22 AM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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I whish we have it simulated one day thumbsup

#3900894 - 01/24/14 02:52 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: apelles]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: apelles
Hpasp, the SA-10B would require an own topic. It's a really interesting system.


Done


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3904908 - 01/31/14 03:20 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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Hpasp Offline
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The 310.srp PVO was formed during 1982 in Kraguljevac, Yugoslavia.
Just before the OAF 1999 break out, the 4 KUB battery were redistributed.

1st battery was sent to defend the Sjenica AFB, some 100km SW of Kraguljevac.
4 MiG-21 fighter were hidden at this reserve base.

3rd battery was sent to defend the Ponikve AFB, some 100km W of Kraguljevac.
2 MiG-29 and 2 MiG-21 fighter were hidden at this reserve base.

At Kraguljevac, only the 2nd, and the 4th KUB battery were left.

At the 9th day of the war, the regiment was ordered leave Kraguljevac and take new position at 60~70km west of Belgrade.

14th of April, the 310/4.srp PVO KUB was discovered by NATO air forces, and were attacked by two AGM-130 missiles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGM-130

The first AGM missile hit the Diesel Electric Transformer cabin.
http://www.nato.int/video/990416b.mpg
The operator is standing beside the cabin (probable smoking), he survived the explosion.


The second AGM hit the SURN.
http://www.nato.int/video/990416c.mpg


Zoran Viriyevich reserve soldier died instantly...
... he was buried on the 16th of April at Kragujevac. He was 31 years old...



Last edited by Hpasp; 01/31/14 03:55 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#3924411 - 03/13/14 10:24 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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Vympel Offline
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Hello to all...

Does anyone knows approximate (or exact :)) average thrust of 3M9 missile?

#3924798 - 03/14/14 06:15 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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piston79 Offline
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Quote:
Author Piotr Dubowik. Gouache on paper 41x32. "Su-22M4 catapulted the accidental shooting down the training ground Ustka - Poland"


http://www.sztukaitechnika.pl/blog/35,katapultowanie-z-su-22m4.html

The story:

GOOGLE translation

#3924922 - 03/14/14 09:02 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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Hpasp Offline
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WOW great article!!!

After the Cold War, when the British received the ex-East German KUBs for system exploitation, they had a big problem during test firings...
... even if they disarmed the KUB missile warhead, the damn missile usually scored a direct hit on the RC target plane.
hahaha

Last edited by Hpasp; 03/14/14 09:22 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#3926040 - 03/17/14 05:28 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp


After the Cold War, when the British received the ex-East German KUBs for system exploitation, they had a big problem during test firings...
... even if they disarmed the KUB missile warhead, the damn missile usually scored a direct hit on the RC target plane.
hahaha


Where we could read more about those testings?

#4104406 - 04/10/15 07:03 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Translated from the:
http://legiero.blog.hu/2015/04/01/a_tabornok_nyughelye

During a war there could be strange circumstances, when the fate of a MiG-29 pilot is arrives in a face of a HARM missile.


Fate has strange ways for warriors.

General Velickovic during his fighter pilot career, flown F-84 Thunderjet, F-86 Sabre, MiG-21 Fishbed, and MiG-29 Fulcrum serving the Yugoslav Air Force.
According to the Western News of those days of 1999...

NATO struck hard at Serb forces deployed in Kosovo, destroying a significant amount of artillery during Day 70 of Operation Allied Force.


NATO aircraft struck at least 32 pieces of artillery, nine armoured personnel carriers, eight mortar positions, six armoured vehicles, four other military vehicles, a SA-6 SAM site and assorted revetted positions. The heaviest strikes against Serb forces in Kosovo took place in the vicinity of Planeja and Mount Pastrik, where severe fighting continues between VJ/MUP forces and the UCK.

Other targets hit included:
Electric power transmission tower near Belgrade
Military barracks at Obrenovac
Air defense command center at Novi Sad
AM radio broadcast stations at: Ruma, and Srbobran
TV/FM relay site at Banjska
Radio relay site at Novi Pazar
Highway bridge at Pirot
Railway bridge at Pirot
Petroleum refueling station at Marash
Petroleum storage site at Sombor
Ammunition storage site at Kursumlija

NATO aircraft flew a total of 575 sorties, including 197 strike sorties and 70 suppression of enemy air defense (SEAD) missions. The weather in the operating region was mixed yesterday, leading to the cancellation of some sorties. All NATO aircraft returned safely. Allied Force operations are underway on Day 71. Further details will be available at the NATO morning update at 1030.


During that night actually two Serbian SA-6 battery was taken out of action by NATO, the bloodiest night of the 1999 war from the Serbian Air Defense point of view.

They lost 5 warriors that night...


As an inspector officer from the Serbian high command, General Velickovic stayed at the SURN (Straight Flush) fire control radar during the unfolding night battle, and died with its crew.

His mother died just 4 years after, at 78...


... still calling his son at the back of her tomb.

(my son...)

warriors, rest in peace

Last edited by Hpasp; 04/11/15 02:56 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

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#4104670 - 04/11/15 10:45 AM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
The fifth photo:

Click to reveal..


Source: Forum Pouke.org


Updated the post, thanks!


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4104884 - 04/11/15 07:17 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp


Updated the post, thanks!


A sad story, indeed.... sigh

#4141849 - 07/01/15 07:33 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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KJakker Offline
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Did you know that the Czech Republic is modifying its SA-6 Gainful/KUB systems to use the Aspide 2000 missile?

A couple of news articles that mention the modification.

Czech SAM Cube with equipment Aspide 2000 missile.

CZECH REPUBLIC UPGRADES SA-6 WITH ASPIDE 2000 MISSILES

Plus the Retia company's official page about the modernization program.

Modernization of Surface-to-Air Missile system SA-6 "Gainful" (2K12 KUB/KVADRAT)

A pdf file about the integration program.

ASPIDE 2000: Integration onto SA-6 KUB

#4141873 - 07/01/15 08:09 PM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: KJakker]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Spada-2000 use the obsolete AIM-7 Sparrow missile with limited ceiling (well below the existing capabilities of the KUB missile)...
... I would rather prefer the NASAMS-II system, at least it use the more deadlier AIM-120 AMRAAM missile.

thumbsup

Last edited by Hpasp; 07/01/15 08:28 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4142062 - 07/02/15 11:20 AM Re: SA-6 Gainful [Re: wasserfall]  
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According my last information, this is a former effort (driven by ending life of 3M9 missiles). I never heard about any progress in this and our Kub should end in 2016 :-(

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