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#3679212 - 11/10/12 12:57 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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redpiano Offline
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Yeah I went ahead and bought FC3, enjoying it quite a bit.

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#3679263 - 11/10/12 02:42 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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I'm suffering a little from buyer's remorse. It is entirely self-inflicted. ED were perfectly clear about what I would and WOULD NOT be purchasing. What I had forgotten before playing FC3 was how I had long ago moved on from FC2. Excepting the Su25s, the FMs are just horrible. I had forgotten that until that first scripted takeoff in the F-15 two days ago. Then I said, "Sucker! Remember? This is why you never flew that thing!" But ED can also be blamed for making me feel this way. After all, they raised the bar so high with the Su25 and later, the Ka50 and A-10C. It's ok. It certainly won't be the 1st $40 I've wasted (P-51), nor the last. And I am sure I will find something productive to do with the old-school Su25.

Last edited by Smokin_Hole; 11/10/12 04:24 PM.
#3679290 - 11/10/12 04:10 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: PFunk]  
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scotsmen54 Offline
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Originally Posted By: PFunk
Mizzy, that's two personal attacks against two different members in one thread. Please edit your posts, or I will edit them for you.


I guess he doesn't want to listen to you.

Would appreciate it if you remove the offending posts. Thanks.

#3679316 - 11/10/12 04:59 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Wolfen Offline
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I'm a bit disappointed, honestly. Nothing has changed. The manual is the same except for the cover. The tutorials are the same. That in particular I didn't really expect. The flight characteristics are basically unchanged, except for maybe very subtle things and for those who are more erudite. The Su-25 is still basically the only plane worth flying in FC3 as it has been for many years. The avionics are still like game avionics. The only difference it seems is that it now fits into DCS World.

#3679346 - 11/10/12 06:04 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Enigmatist Offline
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I think its brilliant jump in and fly stuff, only thing it lacks are more missions and campaigns

#3679358 - 11/10/12 06:43 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Hamblue Offline
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The only Issue I have with FC3 is that I flew A-10C first. At this point I'm spoiled with the clickable cockpit. Only additional planes with clickable cockpits will satisify me at this point.
I think it's worth the 40 bucks but doesn't hold a candle to the A-10C and probably the KA-50 (don't have it)


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#3679647 - 11/11/12 08:25 AM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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redpiano Offline
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I also think it's great, not having played previous lock on games this gave me incentive by providing me with a better looking plane to fly and the new and better DCSW menus. I don't think it's worth 40$ but it's not like they're going to lower it.

Plus being able to just hop in and go without all the complexity of the A10c or BS2 is very nice.

#3679649 - 11/11/12 08:44 AM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: Hamblue]  
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GrayGhost Offline
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It is meant for a) people who want an easier/simpler fare and b) those who must have fast-movers and A2A combat no matter what (like me!). The community did ask for FC3 in order to bridge the FC2 -> DCS Fast Movers transition. So, you can play online now with air to air aircraft supporting you should your mission have airborne opposition ( or, perhaps, they'll come hunt for you if they're on the wrong side ... )

Originally Posted By: Hamblue
I think it's worth the 40 bucks but doesn't hold a candle to the A-10C and probably the KA-50 (don't have it)


--
44th VFW
#3680028 - 11/11/12 09:31 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Arafo, Canary Islands, Spain
FC3 updated features

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1601224&postcount=1
Quote:
Although a list of changes were stated on the FC3 web page, it seems that this was not noticed by many users. Many of these changes were in fact what the team has been working on since the product was delayed. This was in addition to addressing many serious bugs.

FC3 page: http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/series/flaming_cliffs_3/

There will of course be further changes while FC3 is beta, but until those features are final and integrated into an installer, we cannot comment on them at this time.

(sorry, I was out of the country when FC3 was released)

---

DCS World Integration

Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 operates as part of DCS World. As such, DCS World must be installed prior to installing Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3. DCS World is a new, free, combat simulation. DCS World provides a free-to-play Su-25T ground attack aircraft with no online restrictions. Online DCS: World includes friendly and enemy forces that can be controlled by other players or AI air and ground units. The purchase of additional DCS modules allows the player to have careers as pilots of the A-10C Warthog, KA-50 Black Shark attack helicopter, P-51D Mustang, or armor vehicle commander. You may read more about DCS: World and its modules at: http://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/

Common F-15C and A-10A Changes

- Updated US RWR threats display logic - threats in scan mode do not update their position continuously anymore.
- US RWR display symbology was made stabilized to the horizon.
- Glide slope/localizer deviation bars were removed from F-15C/A-10A HUDs.
- Adjusted F-15C/A-10A HUD gun reticle distance sector visual appearance.

New F-15C Cockpit and Updated Cockpit Systems

Perhaps the most noticeable new features with Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 is the new, beautiful cockpit. This cockpit is fully rendered in every detail and provides 6 degrees of freedom of movement within the cockpit. This new cockpit includes both day and night lighting, an improved HUD that is focused to infinity, re-worked HUD symbols and many improvements and new functions for the radar and radar warning receiver:

- New flap position lights
- Flaps position lights logic was updated.
- AI & SAM warning lights are functional now.
- Active jamming is indicated by open X in the center of TEWS screen. Flashing X - standby, steady X - active.
- CHAFF/FLARE, and MINIMUM lights are operational now.
- Marker beacon light was made functional. MKR display was added on HUD.
- Added CSET display on HUD - is displayed for the first 10 seconds after ILS mode selection.
- Steer mode select knob was animated.
- Fixed HUD Integrated Flight Director indication.
- Added bank steering bar on HUD.
- HUD altitude scale is always barometric now.
- Removed radar altimeter scale from HUD.
- Fixed AoA scale and numeric indication on HUD.
- Adjusted HUD display logic of Mach number and current/maximum G displays.
- ADI light was made functional.
- Fixed unstable radar lock at certain ranges in the vertical scan mode.
- Radar scan zone in TWS is limited by 60 degrees now.
- DTWS scan zone automatic centering is implemented.

Changes to the A-10A

- Fixed bank steering pointer and bank indicator animation on ADI.
- Adjusted TVV position limits on HUD. Out of view arrow has been added for TVV.
- Pitch numerics were changed to Flight Path Angle numerics on HUD.
- Adjusted position limits of various HUD symbols.
- Reworked visual shape and display logic of the destination index (tadpole).
- Added TD box (steer point position) on HUD.
- Fixed visual appearance of the Target Designator Cue (TDC) on HUD.

Changes to the MiG-29 and Su-27/33

- Stations display was removed from Su-27/33 HUD.
- Radar scan zone on Russian aircrafts is now always centered on the tracked target in TWS.
- 'Target unlock' command is now functional in Russian TWS - current track and radar contacts data is cleared.
- Radar is correctly returns back to TWS (instead of RWS) on Russian aircrafts when STT is lost.
Common Changes to All Aircraft
- Fixed momentary jump of the HSI course pointer in some cases when steerpoint is switched.
- HSI course/bearing/distance pointers and ADI steering/deviation bars animation was made smooth in all aircrafts

Improved Air-to-Air Missile Flight Dynamics

- With a return to a heavy focus on air-to-air combat in Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3, the flight dynamics physics of air-to-air missiles has been improved in multiple ways:
- Launcher platform speed, thrust, missile weight, total drag, gravity, etc. are all calculated to determine missile speed.
- Missiles now incur realistic energy bleed that accounts for drag, induced drag and gravity. Induced drag calculates g-load and that factors the missile’s lift. Missiles will now bleed energy very quickly if the target performs hard maneuvers.
- We added a longitudinal-load fuze arming type. The missile warhead of missile will only be armed after reaching the assigned longitudinal g-load (acceleration). Otherwise the missile will not detonate.
- We added a limited duration to the missile’s power system (gas-generator, generator and hydraulic pump). When the onboard power system is exhausted, the missile goes ballistic.
- We added a self-destruction timer. Some missiles will self-destruct when the timer is reached.
- We added altitude based of self-destruction. Some missiles will destruct when reaching an assigned altitude above ground level.
- We added a guidance timer delay. After launching a missile, the missile will fly straight from the from launcher for safety reasons before initiating the guidance stage. This is typically 0.3…1.5 seconds. For example: the R-27R missile flies unguided forward for 0.5 seconds before guidance to target starts.
- We added parameters of loft trajectory. The initial range to target, the range of transition to proportional navigation, and initial angle of loft are all factored.

Resource Manager

In any war, logistics plays one of the most critical roles. If an army air force cannot be resupplied, it will be useless in battle. The new Resource Manger allows mission designers to add the element of resource management into missions.
Mission builders can now place warehouses on the battle map and allow them to resupply airbases and other facilities with set amounts of weapons and fuel. This can be done for both single player and multiplayer missions.

---

I posted this earlier but I think it bears worth repeating here:

Philosophy Behind the Release of FC3

Although it was not stated in the original announcement, I wanted to share the motivation behind FC3 and the logic behind some of the choices we made.

With the current divide between FC2 and DCS, we felt there was an unneeded gap between the two products that only served divide the larger Eagle Dynamics product community. Further, those flying DCS online really had no dedicated fighter aircraft, just mud movers. For a more encompassing online experience, this needs to change.

Given that "DCS: Fighter" is still a ways off, we hope that FC3 will serve as a good bridge while we continue to flesh out the stable of DCS aircraft (both 1st and 3rd party). However, given the time window for this and the available resources, there was a lot of back and forth discussion internally of what we could and could not do in a reasonable time frame. In the end, a list of improvements was created that we believe will most benefit FC3. Many of these improvements though (like AAM AFM, resource manager, etc.) could not be specific to an FC3 install, rather they would have to be part of DCSW or it would break the game online. Make no mistake though that these features were specifically created for and budged for FC3.

As for the new and improved F-15C cockpit, work on this started about a year ago because we felt of all the FC aircraft, it is the most popular. That is not a slight to the eastern aircraft, nor any indication of some sort of western bias. While we would also have LOVED to include a new and improved MiG-29 or Su-27 cockpit, the time needed would fall well outside the product window. As someone that has been flying Eagle products since the original Flanker, I too look forward to a new Crane cockpit!

As mentioned before by our moderators that show boundless patience, it is not our decision regarding the requirement for a LOMAC installation. This was a stipulation with Ubisoft that allowed us to create these addons. However, this is also a big reason why FC3 will probably be the last LOMAC product.

Finally, on the matter of price, we price all products based on the financial investment compared to forecasted revenue based on two decades of experience. For those that think we make money hand over fist making these titles, you could not be more wildly mistaken. If we solely based price on what end users deemed the cost should be rather than based on actual development costs, we would have been out of business long ago. As it is, we are often lucky to break even on these products.


More News to the Front
#3680057 - 11/11/12 10:34 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Paul Saunders Offline
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Paul Saunders  Offline
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Scotland
Bought it, like it. Flying it xwing aroundthetree

#3680082 - 11/11/12 11:14 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Boomer Offline
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Can someone explain to me what is meant by a "scripted take off" in the FC3 F15C? I suspect I know but would like clarification.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#3680347 - 11/12/12 11:35 AM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Smokin_Hole Offline
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Even though I said it in a previous post, I am using it from a position of ignorance similar to the way people use the word "overmodeled". In my case, I expect a takeoff to be somewhat linear. Once sufficient airflow is achieved over the stab, I should be able to raise the nose at a predictable rate based on aft stick displacement. This is not what you get with the F-15. The nose appears to lighten on its own during acceleration (as expected) but if you apply stick displacement the rotation seems unnaturally slow. Once the mains leave the ground however the nose instantly reacts to that extra stick displacement. This all implies that a different set of rules calls the shots during the takeoff roll (where the player's inputs are to a degree ignored) compared to the rules used in flight where the response to player input is more realistic.

This might be due to the need to account for the different axis of rotation between ground and airborn. On the ground the airplane rotates in pitch at the hub of the main landin gear. In the air the rotation is at the CG. The two locations are separated by feet not inches. Maybe the SFM just isn't able to handle the transition between the two in a way that is believable to picky pilots like me.

Last edited by Smokin_Hole; 11/12/12 11:43 AM.
#3680355 - 11/12/12 12:13 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Boomer Offline
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Gotcha, thanx, and yes I too noticed that. Rather unsatisfactory.


"Learning to fly the Falcon is just your ticket to the dance" - Pete 'Boomer' Bonanni.
#3680376 - 11/12/12 01:21 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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CaptCanada Offline
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Cold Lake Alberta Canada
Just thinking out loud here, but , would it be possible for a FC3 Lite version, I mean, one without the SU25 and A10, as DCSW already has a SU25 and most ppl already have the A10 DCSW module. I think most ppl are buying/getting FC3 soley for the F15.

It would have been nice to have an option of getting a lite version with just the F15 with the Mig29&Su27.

Would it be a legal issue mainly, as I don't think it would be a software issue to just get those three into a FC3 Lite module for use to use.

smile


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#3680482 - 11/12/12 03:55 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

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Space Coast, USA
FC3 has the A-10A and Su-25, not the Su-25T and A-10C. They have different cockpits and fight very differently. Granted the FM's are similar, but ask any WWII simmer if he'd rather not have a P-51D because he has a B or not have a Bf109G because he has an E and you'll get a resounding no.




The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3680582 - 11/12/12 05:34 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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CaptCanada Offline
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CaptCanada  Offline
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Cold Lake Alberta Canada
I realize that so that is why I said that not have the A10A or SU25 in a lite version wouldn't matter since the newer versions of the respecive aircraft are available. All ppl are buying FC3 for is for the F15.


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#3681343 - 11/13/12 08:13 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

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Space Coast, USA
Maybe SOME people, but I know of many people who like the MiG and Flankers as well. The A-10A has been largely replaced by the A-10C, but sometimes it's fun to use the simpler one.



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3681946 - 11/14/12 05:11 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: CaptCanada]  
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ijozic Offline
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ijozic  Offline
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HR
Originally Posted By: CaptCanada
I realize that so that is why I said that not have the A10A or SU25 in a lite version wouldn't matter since the newer versions of the respecive aircraft are available. All ppl are buying FC3 for is for the F15.


Yeah, but what would be the point of such a release? To save a few bucks? Since most of the work has went to the F-15 anyway, you might save like $5 tops with such a release so it would have been pretty much pointless.


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#3681964 - 11/14/12 05:41 PM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
Joined: Feb 2000
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Jedi Master Offline
Entil'zha
Jedi Master  Offline
Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
Since pretty much no real time was put into those planes, largely being ported over from FC2, it would indeed knock very little off the price. I'm sure the reason FC3 goes for $10 more than FC2 is because of the F-15C!



The Jedi Master


The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
#3683078 - 11/16/12 10:42 AM Re: Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 3 1.2.2 released (pre-purchase) [Re: citizen guod]  
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SoupyC Offline
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Biggest Little City
So...which version of LOMAC should I buy if I want this? I was never an ED simmer before Black Shark, so I never got into LOMAC or Flaming Cliffs, and now, I've heard rumours that the digital version won't work (its $30 still anyway...) and I really just want to play FC3. What a dumb requirement...


"A desire not to butt into other people's business is at least eighty percent of all human 'wisdom' . . . and the other twenty percent isn't very important." - Jubal Harshaw
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