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#3678523 - 11/09/12 08:47 AM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 51
DGC338
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 51
Australia
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So are you going to address the Issues raised in the first post at all or just skirt round the edges? I agree the ROF is a good product, yet this is not about ROF and so was the thread at 1C. The posts at 1C were taken down because they do not appreciate their forum being used as a conduit to bash 777 and ROF and we agree with them Why did they delete the whole thread not much of it was bashing ROF? Why not just delete the offending post? It was more a quest for answers than a bash ROF thread. To say otherwise is a joke.
"He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious." - Sun Tzu III-25.
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#3678536 - 11/09/12 09:52 AM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
TychosElk
Member
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Member
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 427
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Why did they delete the whole thread not much of it was bashing ROF? Because it was doing nobody any good? Because it was based on misinformed speculation? Foobar's post had already falsely claimed that 1C were taking over 777 (which made no sense at all), and IvanK seems to be saying that (a) the CloD sequel has been cancelled, and (b) that it hasn't - but it is going to somehow-or-other go ahead anyway, due to some sort of 'arrangement' with 777 - except that another 'credible source' says that this is wrong and something else (what?) is going to happen instead. Given Jason's clear statement that there is no truth to the first claim, and the vagueness of the second, I see no reason why it would be advantagious to him to comment further, even if he knew more, and likewise, 1C are unlikely to time their product announcements on the basis of vague and contradictory rumours on forums. Maybe 1C have been talking to 777. Maybe they haven't. If they have, we don't know what they might have been talking about - and there is no reason for them to tell us anyway. Regardless of what is said by 1C, the CloD forums always seem to over-analyse each and every word, and twist it to mean something else entirely. In a situation like that, given that CloD itself is no longer being developed, and any future sequel is in a closed alpha stage at best, there is nothing to be gained by adding to the rumour mill. We will have to wait and see. Or do as Jason suggests and enjoy the current sims. I'll be joining Jason, and flying RoF online as usual this weekend. I suggest that the rest of you do something similar, rather than engaging in facile speculation based on who-knows-what from who-knows-who...
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#3678538 - 11/09/12 10:22 AM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 37
MadTommy
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 37
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Hey if we weren't allowed to speculate on the CloD ongoing saga forums would be very dull indeed. I do totally agree that the hatred in some forums is baffling, but CloD has been a train wreck in super slow mo for years... its hard not to watch. I hope there is a Hancock moment to stop the crash at the last second. 
Last edited by MadTommy; 11/09/12 10:23 AM.
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#3678549 - 11/09/12 10:58 AM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,545
Simbo_Sim123
Member
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Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,545
Tonyrefail South Wales
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Thanks for answering Jason.I did start to wonder where Chivas got his "777 Studios can barely afford to keep ROF alive" rubbish from.
Hmmm Chalk and Cheese springs to mind.
Paul
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Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra m�r yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.
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#3678573 - 11/09/12 12:39 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,619
KRT_Bong
It's KRT not Kurt
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It's KRT not Kurt
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,619
Sarasota, Florida
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If there is something going on behind the scenes it probably involves an NDA and I think Jason can't afford to even let one glimpse behind the curtain because of all the rampant speculation that goes on daily. Probably just have to wait for the inevitable announcement.
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#3678580 - 11/09/12 01:20 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,984
-Avatar-
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,984
CT, USA
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Jason, thanks for taking the time to reply to some of this stuff that constantly gets posted. It is always amazing to watch the posts that come up and act like they are all knowing and totally accurate when there's nothing close to reality going on... Unfortunately, some will still doubt your words as they know better I bet.  ROF is an EXCELLENT product and works very well on a wide range of systems. It does things no other sim does and does most things better than any other prop sim ever made. Our business model works and it's kept us going, along with our dedicated fans, for several years now. And it costs you absolutely nothing to give it a go! We have a track record of keeping our promises and having open and honest communication with our community and giving them regular updates on progress. We've worked with talented parties in the community to make some cool content for the community and we listen to our fans as evidenced by the content and features we have added. I have seen this first hand over the years and it's why I support the team and product in the ways I do! I find it funny how two people can experience the exact same situation and come out of it with completely different experiences. Guess it all boils down to their individual belief systems and preconceived notions that end up coloring what they are perceiving... But keep up the great work and I'm really looking forward to that Channel map that's being worked on!! 
Avatar
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#3678621 - 11/09/12 02:39 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: 777 Studios - Jason]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher
I'll be your Huckleberry
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I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
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please don't push falsehoods about the 777 As my grandpappy used to say 'There are no falsehoods or truehoods! It's the internet! Now get your head out of my spittoon ya damn fool!'
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#3678656 - 11/09/12 03:35 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,231
HogDriver
Retired Flight Simmer
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Retired Flight Simmer
Member
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,231
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I basically dropped in with some popcorn to see what has been going on here for the last few weeks, but this post made me think a little bit about "possibilities".
I would be curious to see a WW2 sim using a modified ROF engine. I still don't think I'd be curious enough to try it, if it were made by the clowns at Maddox Games though.
I think I'd be a little reluctant to also try it if it used the ROF business model. Just imagine if CLOD had been released like ROF.
1. You'd start by paying $40-60 USD for the main game. It comes with 2 flyables, the Hurricane Mk I and the BF-109 E3. You get the map of southeast England and the channel, along with a little stretch of France to land your Luftwaffe planes on.
2. For $7-8 USD at release, you can purchase the CR 42, Tiger Moth, BF-109 E4, and Spitfire MK I.
3. 3-6 months after release, for $12 you can purchase the BF-110 and for $10 a flyable Defiant.
4. 6-12 months after release, for $12 you can purchase the JU-87 Stuka. And for $7-8 you can buy another variant of the Spitfire, Hurricane, BF-109 or BF-110.
5. 12-15 months after release, for $12 you can purchase the Beaufighter. (flyable) Possibly an Italian plane at this point as well.
6. 24 months after release we finally have flyable twin engine bombers for sale at $13-18 each. 3rd party scripted campaigns are also for sale at this point for $10+. Customization packs also arrive for $5-8 per pack, giving you cosmetic options or minor weapon or instrument variations for your planes/pilots.
7. 36 months after release, our first add on map arrives for $20. It is Malta. The Gloster Gladiator is released for $7-8 at this time as well. There is actually a serious career mode in the game now.
8. 48 months after release, a sequel comes out, adding another theatre to the game. MAYBE the original game and aircraft are included in it, but everything new, we have to repeat the cycle of waiting and paying for. If we're really lucky we'd get at least 4 new flyables to start with.
I ended up buying all the ROF planes eventually, even though I almost never play anymore. I believe ROF is the best flight sim around at the moment... I just don't think I could stomach that business model again on a new game. I've already been exploring new hobbies outside games and flight sims...
Just a bit of musing... In keeping with the speculation, rumors, and just plain made up %$%^ going around right now...
I refuse to buy a flight sim that I have no interest in playing, on the off chance that MAYBE someday they'll make the one I really want to play.
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#3678664 - 11/09/12 03:42 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
komemiute
Hell Drummer
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Hell Drummer
Hotshot
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
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@HogDriver:
You know what? I know it sounds pricey, BUT if it guaranteed the same Quality and Customer Care I've seen so far in Rof, I may very well drop in. Ouhyeah.
That said, I'm fed up with WWII.
Vietnam please...
Or, since the map would be small enough, Falklands, my Dogs of War! NOW!
WOwza... Just think with the ocean engine 777 developed fot the Channel map...
A Falkland simulator. Or even just the South Vietnam.
*Drool*
Eh...
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
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#3678692 - 11/09/12 04:31 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 302
Borsch
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 302
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WWII planes cost more than "7-8$" we are used to in ROF. If we take DCS A10 to cost $40, I'd guess WW2 birds would be somewhere in the middle between the A10 and WW1 biplanes in complexity and hence in price. About $20-30 per plane sounds more like it.
Last edited by Borsch; 11/09/12 04:32 PM.
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#3678724 - 11/09/12 05:26 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 465
Mastiff
"just do it"
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"just do it"
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 465
EL Centro, Cailfornia
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I noticed IvanK your post on ROF and 1C have been removed..
71st Eagle Squadronwww.anon6.com - Blogger on DCS Series 71st Mastiff's you-Tube"any failure you meet is never a defeat; merely a set up for a greater come back" Asus x-99||i7x5930k||ddr4 16gb2400||GTX980Ti-6gb|| ATX1200Corsair||realteck 5.1||Win8.1x64pro|| TrackIr4Pro/ir||CHfghtrstck||siatekpedals| |X52ThrteCntrlr||G15Keyboard/RzrMose|| 32"LCD||2x7"lilliputs,1x9inc
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#3678771 - 11/09/12 06:44 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: 777 Studios - Jason]
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
Chivas
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 4,024
B.C. Canada
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Recall that Jason previously undertook a project to create a
WWII Burma sim in collaboration with A2A, and after about
8 months they announced it was shelved as they simply did not
have the resources between them to pull it off (and I would
guess the unspoken admission that they were unable or
insufficiently confident of success to acquire the necessary
outside investment to continue). This suggests that 777 would
love to get into a WWII sim if they could pull it off, but
also that they probably still can't (it's not like the economy
is currently looking ripe for a new sim, or much else...).
PV1, It was not a Burma sim, it was a P-61 and then a P-47 sim set in the Pacific with the Merlin engine. I had funding set up in the beginning in 2007 and we began work, but then the funding dissappeared soon after when the economy tanked and I was never able to find more funding again for the team and I didn't want work to continue with no one getting paid. It was a good learning experience though. Then I concentrated on finding games to publish which eventually lead me to the ROF team and the rest is history. And I'm sorry, Chivas is probably a nice guy, but he doesn't know our finances. ROF has turned a profit every year since 777 took over. Yes, we ask for continued support because when you have a program of constant development you have to remind people to keep up the support. And building a huge WWII sim is a multi-million dollar expense very few in this tiny genre can afford outright not matter what business their current title is doing. All this talk comparing CLOD to ROF is not worth the effort. Soooo much misinformation about ROF and the CLOD engines and their teams floating around. Plus so much hate and angst out there in this genre that doesn't need to be there. It annoys everyone involved in making these titles and some talented people have quite over it. Does anyone even fly and have fun anymore? The posts at 1C were taken down because they do not appreciate their forum being used as a conduit to bash 777 and ROF and we agree with them. Such harsh comments do not further this genre at all. Anwyays, all this has been interesting to watch, but please don't push falsehoods about the 777 Team or ROF. ROF is an EXCELLENT product and works very well on a wide range of systems. It does things no other sim does and does most things better than any other prop sim ever made. Our business model works and it's kept us going, along with our dedicated fans, for several years now. And it costs you absolutely nothing to give it a go! We have a track record of keeping our promises and having open and honest communication with our community and giving them regular updates on progress. We've worked with talented parties in the community to make some cool content for the community and we listen to our fans as evidenced by the content and features we have added. Our team, management and technology has been recognized by other organizations in the gaming industry and some have asked for our help on projects not even related to hardcore flight-sims that you will most likely never ever know about. We are not the backwater rookies some uninformed people on internet forums make us out to be. This should be one big happy genre. I can't change what other companies have done to piss people off, but we work hard every day to improve our product and by extension the genre. I'm going to bed now. Tomorrow is Friday and my wife is out of town so it will be a ROF MP all weekend! See you in the sky! Jason Jason I have no doubt that 777 is turning a profit, or the doors would have been shut along time ago. My statement about your finances related to the doubt that 777 studio could afford to take on the COD engine, or build a WW2 sim while supporting ROF, without alot of help. I happen to own and like ROF, and didn't see that much ROF bashing in the IC forums, and highly doubt Ivan's thread was taken down solely for ROF bashing. There is alot more going on than that.
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#3678802 - 11/09/12 07:41 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: bisher]
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,088
SlipBall
disillusioned
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disillusioned
Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,088
East Coast U.S.A.
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It just seems to me we are setting ourselves up for more frustration
Why not relax and wait to see what happens
That's crazy talk!!...revolution now!!
Post composed with speech to text, it woks grape!
Clod
OEM screenshots & videos of Eu release..So I fly the original game because I am a off-liner and the game's AI was broken after the last good patch, game version 1.0.13954
GigaByteBoard...64bit...FX 4300 3.8, G. Skill sniper 1866 32GB, EVGA GTX 660 ti 3gb, Raptor 64mb cache, Planar 120Hz 2ms, CH controls, Tir5
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#3678810 - 11/09/12 07:53 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: SlipBall]
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
theOden
Member
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Member
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,614
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It just seems to me we are setting ourselves up for more frustration
Why not relax and wait to see what happens
That's crazy talk!!...revolution now!! Hell yeah! :runs in circle:
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#3678821 - 11/09/12 08:10 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: theOden]
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
bisher
I'll be your Huckleberry
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I'll be your Huckleberry
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,179
Manitoba, Canada
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It just seems to me we are setting ourselves up for more frustration
Why not relax and wait to see what happens
That's crazy talk!!...revolution now!! Hell yeah! :runs in circle: LOL good 
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#3678832 - 11/09/12 08:35 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: IvanK]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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All I can say is, after initial misgivings I've come to support 777's model. The notion of selling not only new planes but also things like weapons and field mods, new maps, campaigns, and pilot personalization is an excellent idea. Obviously not everyone will buy everything (although some will buy it all and some will buy none), but making the base game F2P opens the door to people getting a free sim and dropping $15 for a couple of things. Would they have done better to start that way? Maybe, maybe not. Could a new WWII sim be built like that? I don't see why not. Look at ED. DCS World is free with a single flyable and SP content. Every other flyable is paid for, plus unlocks MP in the process. Granted they did this after ROF did, but their following the model seems to validate it. I WILL say the aforementioned idea of charging full price for 2 flyables will NOT fly with me!! I didn't buy ROF until I got the ICE version on sale...THEN I started buying more planes and other things once I knew I liked it. So I got the first 9 planes for just $20, but since then I've bought every plane either on sale or preorder and most of the field and weapons mods and the new map. I didn't buy ED's P-51 and I'm not planning on it, not unless there are several other WWII planes and a suitable environment for it. There are 2 choices: either you release a full product for full price, with follow-on DLC or whatever being gravy to it, or you release a smaller product at a smaller price (or free) and then rely on people getting hooked and paying for the other parts. Drug dealers have had great success with that model. Notably, Microsoft failed greatly with Flight, but again they seemed to have misread the market. Likewise drug dealers would fail if their product made you feel a bit itchy behind the neck with no other effects. The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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#3678904 - 11/09/12 10:27 PM
Re: 1C Time to talk to the community regarding CLOD
[Re: Jedi Master]
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
komemiute
Hell Drummer
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Hell Drummer
Hotshot
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
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I didn't buy ED's P-51 and I'm not planning on it, not unless there are several other WWII planes and a suitable environment for it. There are 2 choices: either you release a full product for full price, with follow-on DLC or whatever being gravy to it, or you release a smaller product at a smaller price (or free) and then rely on people getting hooked and paying for the other parts. Drug dealers have had great success with that model. Notably, Microsoft failed greatly with Flight, but again they seemed to have misread the market. Likewise drug dealers would fail if their product made you feel a bit itchy behind the neck with no other effects. The Jedi Master I really think along these lines. Well said, Jedi. Well said.
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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