#3672123 - 10/30/12 03:47 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 916
Tvrdi
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Earth
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Halberstadt DII was a long wish from us...Water looks awesome and I do hope they will put map on sale too. Weapon mods I will but tommorow. Also 2 planes I dont have (still I wont buy floatplanes) as thanks to Halbie. But I do hope they will fix flight models of existing planes...to show they care for MP folks too. Then I will buy everything I dont have anad another account. Oh, and...say thanks to 3d party folks ..mainly because of them we got Halberstadt DII so early...wink wink
Once upon a time, A. Petrovich wrote: "Thank you all, guys, for your attention to FM"
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#3672132 - 10/30/12 03:55 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
komemiute
Hell Drummer
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Hell Drummer
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I just realized i bought a weapon mod but there's no sale! The price is the normal one?! How come?
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!" Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..." Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!" MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands." Sauron
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#3672137 - 10/30/12 03:58 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: komemiute]
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 916
Tvrdi
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Posts: 916
Earth
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I just realized i bought a weapon mod but there's no sale! The price is the normal one?! How come? Sale starts tommorow as you can read from the news blog.... "To kick off the start of the Holiday season we have launched a special sale on Weapon Mods! It will last from October 31th through November 5th."
Last edited by Tvrdi; 10/30/12 03:59 PM.
Once upon a time, A. Petrovich wrote: "Thank you all, guys, for your attention to FM"
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#3672139 - 10/30/12 04:00 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
komemiute
Hell Drummer
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Hell Drummer
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,033
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D'OH! Just saw it. My bad, whatever, 3 buck are more than ok. Obviously no hard feelings! JUST HAPPINESS!
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!" Para_Bellum
"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..." Ice
"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!" MigBuster
"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands." Sauron
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#3672230 - 10/30/12 06:09 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: 2005AD]
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 419
2Lt_Joch
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Member
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Montreal, Canada.
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A perfect example: For years now the Alabatros D.Va scout which should be capable of ~117mph at 1000m are ~18mph too slow at that altitude.
No, the Devs have done their homework and have it more or less correct with a top speed of around 175 kmh. The 187 kmh (117 mph) which everyone throws about, even they can never produce the source, appears most probably to be the speed recorded by the D.IIIau engined Alb D.V prototype Albatros entered in the 1st fighter competition. The Fokker D.VII with a D.IIIau engine recorded top speeds of 178-189 kmh in various tests in 1918. I highly doubt a production Alb D.V with a D.IIIa engine could do the same. ps - the new Halb looks good.
Intel Q9550, Gyga P35-DS3R, XFX 6950 XXX, 27" widescreen, 8 g. DDR2 @800, 2xWDRaptor 36g HD @ RAID 0, 1tb WD Caviar black HD, X-Fi Fatal1ty, win 7 64bit ultimate, Cougar/FSSB/HS1, Tir4.
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#3672279 - 10/30/12 07:18 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: 2Lt_Joch]
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 902
2005AD
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 902
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A perfect example: For years now the Alabatros D.Va scout which should be capable of ~117mph at 1000m are ~18mph too slow at that altitude.
No, the Devs have done their homework and have it more or less correct with a top speed of around 175 kmh. The 187 kmh (117 mph) which everyone throws about, even they can never produce the source, appears most probably to be the speed recorded by the D.IIIau engined Alb D.V prototype Albatros entered in the 1st fighter competition. The Fokker D.VII with a D.IIIau engine recorded top speeds of 178-189 kmh in various tests in 1918. I highly doubt a production Alb D.V with a D.IIIa engine could do the same. I highlighted the important parts in red for you. Assuming is not something that should be done when it comes to FMs. Also you chose to address only one minor point in my post, what about the other aircraft I listed? The devs have no problem fitting a Pfalz D.XII with a BMW engine, I don't think historical accuracy can be presented as one of their strong points. Lets play your assumption game for a moment though... The (l916 era) Albatros D.IIa with a 160hp engine had a top speed of 109 mph, see image attached. http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/ICDP/Page4.jpgWere these also numbers taken from the "1918 fighter competition". Are we to believe a D.Va with a 180hp DIIIa engine had a lower top speed than a real D.IIa? According to the stats in RoF? (real D.IIa 175 kph, RoF D.Va 170 kph). Or even better how about a real D.IIa with a 160hp engine being faster than the 180hp engined RoF D.IIIa? So an identical fuselage, more drag due to higher lower wing area but somehow faster, and with a lower powered engine to boot? These are the head scratching issues I was referring too in my 1st post.
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#3672329 - 10/30/12 08:13 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 419
2Lt_Joch
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Member
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Montreal, Canada.
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yes, you allude to a good point. A lot of the WW1 data is missing and the Devs have to make educated guesses as to what the real data is. Is the real top speed of a D.Va 187 kmh which is the figure you see bandied about in many books or 1 65 kmh which is what the Albatros factory said was the official top speed? There have been many speed figures given for the Alb. II-V series from various tests, almost all fall in the 165-172 kmh range. You have one test of a Alb. D.II with a D.III engine which recorded a 175 kmh speed. Is that an outlier or a reliable test? Many German pilots were disappointed with the D.V which was only a marginal improvement on the D.III. The D.Va packed on an extra 80 kilos in an effort to strengthen the wings. The Devs chose to model the Alb. D.II-D.Vs on an average figure, around 175, which is as valid a method as any other. There is a difference between saying you do not agree with the Devs interpretation of the data and saying they are "dubiously modeled".
Intel Q9550, Gyga P35-DS3R, XFX 6950 XXX, 27" widescreen, 8 g. DDR2 @800, 2xWDRaptor 36g HD @ RAID 0, 1tb WD Caviar black HD, X-Fi Fatal1ty, win 7 64bit ultimate, Cougar/FSSB/HS1, Tir4.
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#3672359 - 10/30/12 08:51 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: 2Lt_Joch]
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 916
Tvrdi
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Earth
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yes, you allude to a good point. A lot of the WW1 data is missing and the Devs have to make educated guesses as to what the real data is. Is the real top speed of a D.Va 187 kmh which is the figure you see bandied about in many books or 1 65 kmh which is what the Albatros factory said was the official top speed? There have been many speed figures given for the Alb. II-V series from various tests, almost all fall in the 165-172 kmh range. You have one test of a Alb. D.II with a D.III engine which recorded a 175 kmh speed. Is that an outlier or a reliable test? Many German pilots were disappointed with the D.V which was only a marginal improvement on the D.III. The D.Va packed on an extra 80 kilos in an effort to strengthen the wings. The Devs chose to model the Alb. D.II-D.Vs on an average figure, around 175, which is as valid a method as any other. There is a difference between saying you do not agree with the Devs interpretation of the data and saying they are "dubiously modeled". Agree with you on that matter....but then, an clerget Camel shouldnt be able to catch an Albie which is the case in ROF...whatever the source you take - its plain wrong.. but lets stay on topic... what do you think, how the new map will change the MP, once introduced, as not everyone would/could cash for teh new map?
Last edited by Tvrdi; 10/30/12 08:51 PM.
Once upon a time, A. Petrovich wrote: "Thank you all, guys, for your attention to FM"
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#3672371 - 10/30/12 09:03 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Tvrdi]
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 902
2005AD
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Member
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Agree with you on that matter....but then, an clerget Camel shouldnt be able to catch an Albie which is the case in ROF...whatever the source you take - its plain wrong.. Yes, another example of an FM "head scratcher" but lets stay on topic...
what do you think, how the new map will change the MP, once introduced, as not everyone would/could cash for teh new map? It will be definitely cause a split online. Any servers that cycle maps will have no choice but to leave the channel map out as the number of people forced to leave the server would be a problem.
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#3672373 - 10/30/12 09:06 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Tvrdi]
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 419
2Lt_Joch
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Member
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Montreal, Canada.
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Agree with you on that matter....but then, an clerget Camel shouldnt be able to catch an Albie which is the case in ROF...whatever the source you take - its plain wrong..
I have my own theory on that...but will save it for another time. I think we all agree that there are various FMs in the game that could stand some tweaking, although we probably won't necessarily agree on which ones or what tweaks. Back on topic, I am really looking forward to the Channel Map. It looks really good. I especially want to see more RNAS action. RNAS squadrons ranged up and down the coast, even getting into dogfights as far north as Zeebrugge.
Intel Q9550, Gyga P35-DS3R, XFX 6950 XXX, 27" widescreen, 8 g. DDR2 @800, 2xWDRaptor 36g HD @ RAID 0, 1tb WD Caviar black HD, X-Fi Fatal1ty, win 7 64bit ultimate, Cougar/FSSB/HS1, Tir4.
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#3672378 - 10/30/12 09:13 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: 2Lt_Joch]
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 916
Tvrdi
Member
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Member
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Posts: 916
Earth
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Agree with you on that matter....but then, an clerget Camel shouldnt be able to catch an Albie which is the case in ROF...whatever the source you take - its plain wrong..
I have my own theory on that...but will save it for another time. I think we all agree that there are various FMs in the game that could stand some tweaking, although we probably won't necessarily agree on which ones or what tweaks. Do I smell that you have the only document (in existance) that "proves" clerget engined Camel could catch an Albie, although all the sources we have claim it couldnt (including all pilot accounts from both sides in the war)? Back on topic, I am really looking forward to the Channel Map. It looks really good. I especially want to see more RNAS action. RNAS squadrons ranged up and down the coast, even getting into dogfights as far north as Zeebrugge.
Would be cool to takeoff from an aircraft carrier with the Pup (with Pup that has corrected climbrate, that is )
Last edited by Tvrdi; 10/30/12 09:26 PM.
Once upon a time, A. Petrovich wrote: "Thank you all, guys, for your attention to FM"
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#3672422 - 10/30/12 10:16 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Tvrdi]
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 419
2Lt_Joch
Member
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Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 419
Montreal, Canada.
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Do I smell that you have the only document (in existance) that "proves" clerget engined Camel could catch an Albie, although all the sources we have claim it couldnt (including all pilot accounts from both sides in the war)?
well no, the issue is probably more complicated and I don't really have an answer. The facts and the problems/issues as I see them: 1. According to tests, a perfect 130 hp Clerget Camel could reach 113 mph as in the game. An Alb D.Va is either at 109 or 116 mph. 2. According to field tests conducted at St-Omer, some production Camels matched the tests results, some did not. Although it is not clear whether this is caused by normal variations in WW1 aircraft or by production quality issues. 3. British license built Clerget engines were supposed to be of poorer quality than the french built models (more on that below), but according to production records, of the 1500 or so Clerget engines the RFC accepted in 1917, 879 (58%) came from France. 4. According to some sources, most of the quality issues with the Clergets built by Gwynnes, the main British supplier, had been resolved by the end of 1916. 5. The issue with the Clergets appears to be more of a design issue, the piston ("obdurator") rings wore out prematurely, sometimes failing completely in as little as 15 hours. As they wore down, it would cause a loss of compression/power in the engine. However, the Clerget was a very simple design and a complete stripping/overhaul of the engine could be done at the squadron level in as little as half a day. The RNAS, which had a very strict maintenance schedule, do not appear to have had the same issue with their Clergets in the Triplane which suggests there may have been a maintenance issue with the RFC squadrons. 6. Even if some Camels had performance issues, this may be more of an operational rather than a tactical issue. As in all Air Forces, the best pilots would get the best planes and poor performing planes would either be left behind or abort back to base, so the planes the Germans fought would usually be the best condition Camels. So the situation is not entirely clear. The bigger point however is what would be the appropriate solution? I think we can all agree that the current situation where 100% of Camels are faster than 100% of the Alb D.Vs 100% of the time is not ideal. However, I dont think making 100% of the Alb D.Vs faster than 100% of the Camels 100% of the time is the solution either. An ideal solution would be if performance was variable within a certain defined range to take into account production variations/maintenance issues so that when a Camel matched up with a Alb D.V, neither pilot would know which is faster... ...it would certainly make online dogfights more interesting.
Intel Q9550, Gyga P35-DS3R, XFX 6950 XXX, 27" widescreen, 8 g. DDR2 @800, 2xWDRaptor 36g HD @ RAID 0, 1tb WD Caviar black HD, X-Fi Fatal1ty, win 7 64bit ultimate, Cougar/FSSB/HS1, Tir4.
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#3672975 - 10/31/12 06:13 PM
Re: New pre-order out!
[Re: Trooper117]
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Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Jedi Master
Entil'zha
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Entil'zha
Sierra Hotel
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 49,716
Space Coast, USA
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...and what's the deal with airline food??!?!
This is hardly anything new, though. ROF, Il-2, LOMAC, EAW, AOE, any sim with multiple modeled aircraft (as opposed to single-plane study sims) get FM debates tossed around. I've witnessed it for over 20 years, there more things change...
The Jedi Master
The anteater is wearing the bagel because he's a reindeer princess. -- my 4 yr old daughter
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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