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#3651602 - 09/27/12 03:39 AM The most frustrating sim ever..?  
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BeachAV8R Offline
Lifer
BeachAV8R  Offline
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Maybe hyperbole..maybe..

I've spent the past three days and many, many hours trying to get Take On Hinds configured to be usable. Whenever I think I've finally figured out how to best get it set up, I realize there is still something wrong. I've literally flown it for hours now without actually doing anything other than try to tweak settings. It is no wonder that newbs probably fire this up, throw up their hands in frustration, and move on..

So I finally managed to get TrackIR working. Only to realize that when implemented it controls the inside view, but I don't see an option to retain the mouse as controlling the external view (for panning around the helo). The view options for TOH (borrowed from ArmA) could use some fixing for a flight sim type game. So is there a way to separate the TrackIR in the cockpit from using the mouse outside of the cockpit?

It also seems that I'm often doing battle with multiple controllers trying to move the helo. After getting TrackIR working, I found that somehow my mouse was now mapped to my left/right cyclic. Deleted those assignments and I think I'm good. Sensitivities are a whole other discussion and I don't see any real guidance on how to set those to realistically mirror actual helo physics (in particular the Hind).

It just seems like I'm spending a LOT of time in the configuration menus, exiting the game, reentering the game and trying to see what works. The promise of the great visuals keeps me coming back to tweak it and try to get it sorted out, but it sure is trying my patience..

BeachAV8R



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#3651634 - 09/27/12 07:47 AM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Fudge93 Offline
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Hey Beach,

Not sure if this would be a viable option, but can you bind the third person key to be the same key as the TrackIR pause button? That way when you change view TrackIR should turn itself on or off.

As to the sensitivity settings I assume you have found them in controls>Controller then selecting your Stick? As to getting them accurate I wouldn't have a clue as I haven't flown anything in real life. Good luck getting them accurate though.

And multiple bound controls will show in red under the controls menu, so after setting them up a quick scroll down should show any duplicated controls.

Fudge


combtpilot.co.uk
#3651770 - 09/27/12 03:26 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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AggressorBLUE Offline
Check out my
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Jerz
Beach,

What HOTAS setup are you using?

Also, note that the Hind is a terrible flyer in a hover state (not a'bug' on BI's fault, I believe this is the case IRL), so chances are sensitivities settings that work in the default birds won't work in the Hind. It's very unintuitive, as it requires a mix of both heavy handed force and light finesse on the controls.

I've found with my CH setup that I like having the sensitivity turned down by no more than 10% from default. Any more than that, and the exponential force introduced around mid-travel becomes very un-natural.


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Other Assets Deployed:
HOTAS: Thrustmaster Warthog SN#22621/CH Throttle Quad/MFG Crosswind Pedals SN#0004 smile
TrackIR TIR 5 w/ TrackClip Pro biggrin
Simpit: Obutto R3VOLUTION


#3651774 - 09/27/12 03:29 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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EagleEye[GER] Offline
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Setting the controler to the right amounts seem`s to be only doable with trial and error. Maybe that can be of help:
Quote:
Hello. Be sure to bind your joystick axe on the "analog command". And unbind them on the other. I had a cyborg too and it worked fine on TOH. Keep all the curve to default except the thorttle's dead zone one. Put it to 0%.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?136961-Joystick-calibration-issue

Please report back if you have found pleasant settings. I would like to know youre impressions of ToH and it`s flight model. smile

#3652081 - 09/27/12 10:40 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Stormtrooper Offline
Lifer
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That's why i quit flying in Arma and Arma2. Damn controllers suck.

#3652347 - 09/28/12 12:48 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Smokin_Hole Offline
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Start your control settings with the long key binding list, not with the controller configuration settings. Here you can remove bindings from the mouse and tir as you wish (I think...away from my PC currently). When you get that as you like it THEN head over to control configurations. Remember that huge dead-zones are added by default. Removing them makes hovering much easier.

#3653197 - 09/29/12 08:42 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Vitesse Offline
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Thanks for the deadzone advice. I'll see if I can remove some. It's much too large by default.

i'm really enjoying the early TOH campaign missions. I have good FPS day and a believable environment.

The flying experience is not far off Black Shark, I think.

#3653330 - 09/30/12 03:06 AM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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BeachAV8R Offline
Lifer
BeachAV8R  Offline
Lifer

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KCLT
I enjoyed the original TOH campaign missions. I might have found a good balance of settings for actually *flying* the Hind right now. I will be honest though in that I don't think the whole ARMA type interface is the best choice for a simulator..



#3653360 - 09/30/12 06:39 AM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Aladar Offline
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Well, I was incredibly interested in this game when it was in Dev. But as soon as the Demo came out I ceased having interest in it, sadly. The configuration woes I had to go through just to get the demo half way working, turned me away. I hope some day the game becomes more user friendly, because I love the idea behind this game.

#3655424 - 10/03/12 12:50 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Smokin_Hole Offline
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The differences between the demo and the current release are significant. The game is designed to be comparable with ARMA and playable with WASD and a mouse. Those two things do create some limitations. But I came to ToH having never heard of ARMA--seriously. So I had no preconceived ideas about the reason for the interface. All I did was set it to Expert and flew. No issues whatsoever. Some of the missions are a little frustrating but the game is fun and the flight dynamics are believable. Overall, I think it is a pretty refined product.

#3658702 - 10/08/12 01:58 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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NH2112 Offline
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I'd say the most frustrating sim ever HAS to be Back to Baghdad. But I've never tried TOH, though. smile


Phil

“The biggest problem people have is they don’t think they’re supposed to have problems.” - Hayes Barnard
#3675897 - 11/05/12 09:14 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: NH2112]  
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JonnyD Offline
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The Fens, UK
Originally Posted By: NH2112
I'd say the most frustrating sim ever HAS to be Back to Baghdad. But I've never tried TOH, though. smile


Hmmm - I just got that one - why is it frustrating? Do you mean the config (sorry to stray OT)?


I say it as I see it
#3680011 - 11/11/12 09:09 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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JonnyD Offline
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The Fens, UK
Originally Posted By: BeachAV8R
Maybe hyperbole..maybe..

I've spent the past three days and many, many hours trying to get Take On Hinds configured to be usable. Whenever I think I've finally figured out how to best get it set up, I realize there is still something wrong. I've literally flown it for hours now without actually doing anything other than try to tweak settings. It is no wonder that newbs probably fire this up, throw up their hands in frustration, and move on..

It just seems like I'm spending a LOT of time in the configuration menus, exiting the game, reentering the game and trying to see what works. The promise of the great visuals keeps me coming back to tweak it and try to get it sorted out, but it sure is trying my patience..

BeachAV8R


Beach, I don't know if you have ArmA2 or not and it may be this that gave me some kind of advantage in setting up, but I bought TOH & Hinds a couple of days ago and had no issues with my G940 whatsoever.

Now, I've only done free flight up to now, always with the "Surprise me" option (didn't know we could fly the Hip - good fun! biggrin ) but it has gone very painlessly.

My very first flight was in the medium helicopter at Utes - the aircraft carrier is offshore and I flew over and landed on the deck with relative ease. TBH I find controlling the DCS Ka50 much more challenging - especially in terms of putting it down on the excact spot I want to.

I went into the controllers config, deactivated everything except the G940 and TrackIR, went to the adjustments and killed off all dead zones except a small one on the rudder.

I set up the axes via the Helicopter controls menu and ignored the other control sections and that was it.

I've been having aball with treetop/wavetop flying (okay, I sunk once when I was trying to get a cool screenshot) and pulling stunts.

Must be down to the different controller sensitivities.

I was taking shots like David Bailey until I remembered that there is no screenshot function in ArmA/TOH! Derrrr screwy


I say it as I see it
#3681637 - 11/14/12 04:30 AM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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LawnDartLeo Offline
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Not diggin' TOH at all. Having flown ARMA and ARMA II helos for ever now I thought it would be a good graduate experience but it is not. I am willing to stipulate that the flight modelling may be better but ones situational awareness is no better than it was in ARMA. I am able to keep myself ahead of the aircraft in ARMA and not get into progressively dire situations, but in TOH once it starts going all to hell, I am doomed. The PID controller in my head can't keep up with the oscillations once they get rolling.


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#3681754 - 11/14/12 11:46 AM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Smokin_Hole Offline
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The small helo in ToH feels the most authentic to me. It might be a bit more unstable than the real thing but its not so bad once you give it some time. Find a nice open field, the airfield at Utes is a nice choice, and practice hovering. Don't look just outside the plexiglass. Look about 50 yards ahead. This will better let your brain register drift in both attitude and position. The helicopter reacts a fraction of a second out of sync with input. Your brain will eventually compensate for that. Once these things happen the old ARMA helos become hard. (I can't fly them)

#3681943 - 11/14/12 05:09 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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redpiano Offline
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Hinds is definitely an awful game, but I agree with smokin' the light chopper is a fun little thing to buzz around Seattle with.

#3686201 - 11/21/12 06:23 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: Smokin_Hole]  
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EinsteinEP Offline
Just a Noob
EinsteinEP  Offline
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Tucson, AZ
Originally Posted By: Smokin_Hole
Once these things happen the old ARMA helos become hard. (I can't fly them)

I used to enjoy flying helos in games like Battlefield 2 and Arma2, but since I've been flying DCS Ka-50 Black Shark and the TOH helos, I just murder myself and teammates with these "simple" helo flight models.


Shoot to Kill.
Play to Have Fun.
#3688081 - 11/25/12 01:43 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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Warmbrak Offline
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Warmbrak  Offline
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Western Australia
I love flying helo's in ARMA 2 & other sims, but for some reason I could never quite get into TOH and the Hind. I suspect it is the FOV and TrackIR implementation that does not feel natural to me, and some strange "artifacts" in the flight modelling. And it wouldn't have hurt to come up with a more user friendly GUI and flightsim related view scripts such as Fly-by, tower view etc.

It is an excellent product, but it can be WAY more with a bit more effort.

#3688455 - 11/26/12 06:56 AM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: BeachAV8R]  
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EinsteinEP Offline
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Tucson, AZ
+1 to all, Warmbrak. It is a fun sim, even with its limitations, and certainly helps feed the need for a "real" helo sim, even if it's lite a few key features.


Shoot to Kill.
Play to Have Fun.
#3688645 - 11/26/12 04:43 PM Re: The most frustrating sim ever..? [Re: Warmbrak]  
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EagleEye[GER] Offline
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Germany
Originally Posted By: Warmbrak
And it wouldn't have hurt to come up with a more user friendly GUI and flightsim related view scripts such as Fly-by, tower view etc. "...but it can be WAY more with a bit more effort. ..."

yep
I currently re-play it and doing the carrier path. I want to make some vids of my flying with some diffent camera angels. Its possible but a pain in the ass (scipting stuff) for a guy like me.

Last edited by EagleEye[GER]; 11/26/12 04:44 PM.
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