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#3633642 - 08/27/12 08:12 PM Suggestions + Ideas { SAM SIMULATOR }  
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farokh Offline
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I-RAN
i creat this topic for all member's about design and talk about Suggestions + Ideas for better develop for sam simulator at future
you guy's u can say everything in your mind about adding more object and feature to sam simulator
maybe at future developer use from your idea and your Suggestions cowboy

Last edited by milang; 08/27/12 10:26 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3633645 - 08/27/12 08:16 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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farokh Offline
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as a first person who want to say on Suggestions about future.....

why at almost scenario's when i launch my missile... target just diving to earth for run my missile!!!!
i think in real life one fighter pilot use different Maneuver's at different position!

maybe hpasp can add some more way of run (method Maneuver's) from missile with add more feature's to sam simulator aircraft! thumbsup

Last edited by milang; 08/27/12 10:07 PM.
#3633742 - 08/27/12 10:55 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas { SAM SIMULATOR } [Re: farokh]  
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Vympel Offline
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I wish we had a keyboard hotkey for turning SNR on and off.

#3633862 - 08/28/12 05:05 AM Re: Suggestions + Ideas { SAM SIMULATOR } [Re: Vympel]  
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Originally Posted By: Vympel
I wish we had a keyboard hotkey for turning SNR on and off.


+1...

As per Milang's idea - yes it would be more real, but probably not possible on Visual Basic...

#3633906 - 08/28/12 09:01 AM Re: Suggestions + Ideas { SAM SIMULATOR } [Re: farokh]  
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#3633914 - 08/28/12 09:42 AM Re: Suggestions + Ideas { SAM SIMULATOR } [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
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farokh Offline
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yes... that a different topic.... i create this topic only for talk about future idea... and developer when want to use it... then we can adding future add-on on your topic.

TNQ allien thumbsup

#3634145 - 08/28/12 06:04 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas { SAM SIMULATOR } [Re: piston79]  
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farokh Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
As per Milang's idea - yes it would be more real, but probably not possible on Visual Basic...



mmmm, are u sure piston 100 per 100 ? rolleyes

when developer could write lines of code for aircraft when i launch missile that fighter's like f-4 or f-105 diving to earth
so hpasp could create little more norm randomize coding for (different run method) from missile!
u want say : in visual basic 6 developer only could add one code for each aicraft for run from missile !!!!!! sigh

Last edited by milang; 08/28/12 06:08 PM.
#3634163 - 08/28/12 06:50 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: milang
as a first person who want to say on Suggestions about future.....

why at almost scenario's when i launch my missile... target just diving to earth for run my missile!!!!
i think in real life one fighter pilot use different Maneuver's at different position!

maybe hpasp can add some more way of run (method Maneuver's) from missile with add more feature's to sam simulator aircraft! thumbsup


Diving to the Earth is still the Best kinematic tactic against launched single digit SAM's, and I see no point for our targets, to try less effective ones. Even during OAF, it was used against 3/250rd in a situation not depicted in SAMSIM.

on the other side...

... planes of the IAF at the Egyptian scenario, U-2 / B-52 / SR-71 / or AN/ALE-50 towing F-16 aircrafts never does it.
biggrin

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/28/12 06:59 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3634207 - 08/28/12 08:14 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Diving to the Earth is still the Best kinematic tactic against launched single digit SAM's, and I see no point for our targets, to try less effective ones. Even during OAF, it was used against 3/250rd in a situation not depicted in SAMSIM.

on the other side...

... planes of the IAF at the Egyptian scenario, U-2 / B-52 / SR-71 / or AN/ALE-50 towing F-16 aircrafts never does it.
biggrin


in your eyes .... only diving to earth is enough for sam simulator realistic to the swich? reading
so why in OAF when our launch missile to f-16cj or f-16cg he do not show any reflex? sigh maybe they reason is armed with decoy pod

but that u-2 and b-52 and that f-18 on libya looks like flyable sculpturesque on air... without no feeling any sam missile incoming!!!!!!.....

Last edited by milang; 08/28/12 09:06 PM.
#3634219 - 08/28/12 08:35 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

... planes of the IAF at the Egyptian scenario, U-2 / B-52 / SR-71 / or AN/ALE-50 towing F-16 aircrafts never does it. biggrin


If they do high G turns, they loose the towed decoys...

#3634372 - 08/29/12 01:32 AM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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ricnunes Offline
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I already posted this sugestion here in this forum, but since the objective of this thread is to post sugestions and I haven't post any here, here's my sugestion:

-> A what-if present day (or near future) war scenario set in Korea, where the player controls North Korean SAM systems. Preferably, I would like to see similar scenarios to what we have in Falcon4 campaign but instead of flying fighter aircraft (F-16) the player would control North Korean SAM systems. Nevertheless I would be happy if this or these scenarios were random (enemy aircraft would spawn randomly of have a random chance of spawning).
IMO, such kind of scenario would be great because:
1- North Korea is probably the only country that current fields ALL the SAM systems currently modeled in SAM simulator (SA-2, SA-3, SA-4 and SA-5). So with these scenarios a player would be able to play with any SAM system modeled in SAM Simulator in a realistic and believable scenario.
2- For example, It would allow the player to control the SA-4 SAM in a realistic and believable scenario. It's possible to play with the SA-4 in current war scenarios but this is not realistic since none the countries modeled in the combat scenarios (North Vietnam, Egypt, Lybia and Serbia) ever used the SA-4.
3- A random scenario would be repeatable/playable as opposed several time and always "feel diferent" compared to a scenario that's always the same.
4- North Korea if I'm not mistake employs an Integrated Air Defense System (IADS) which gives the player a rare occasion of using an Integrated Air Defense System in a realistic looking combat scenario.
5- The player would face a very modern and extremelly well equiped foe (USAF, USN, USMC and South Korean Air Force) armed with the lastest weaponry such as HARM missiles which would make this scenario EXTREMELLY challenging but since the player would have an IADS at his disposal, he would or could have a better chance of having sucess (compared with Lybia or Serbia scenarios for example).
6- Since this scenario is a "what-if" there's no need for such an extensive research that I'm sure current real scenarios of SAM simulator must have had and at the same time giving the mission editor/designer some room for mission design "creativity" and/or "freedom" (such as random scenarios for example).


Well, my 2 cents anyway....

#3635248 - 08/30/12 06:13 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: milang
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Diving to the Earth is still the Best kinematic tactic against launched single digit SAM's, and I see no point for our targets, to try less effective ones. Even during OAF, it was used against 3/250rd in a situation not depicted in SAMSIM.

on the other side...

... planes of the IAF at the Egyptian scenario, U-2 / B-52 / SR-71 / or AN/ALE-50 towing F-16 aircrafts never does it.
biggrin


in your eyes .... only diving to earth is enough for sam simulator realistic to the swich? reading


Quote:
Launch warning Equipment that took on U.S. planes, allows the pilot to make better use of the so-called "standard" anti-missile maneuver or maneuver before the point of the meeting. He lay in the fact that at a distance of about 8-10 km from the rocket pilot produced a sharp pitch up for 2-3 seconds, and then translating the plane into a dive with maximum overload. The missile did not have time to work out the bugs guidance and passed the mark.

#3635339 - 08/30/12 08:12 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79

Launch warning Equipment that took on U.S. planes, allows the pilot to make better use of the so-called "standard" anti-missile maneuver or maneuver before the point of the meeting. He lay in the fact that at a distance of about 8-10 km from the rocket pilot produced a sharp pitch up for 2-3 seconds, and then translating the plane into a dive with maximum overload. The missile did not have time to work out the bugs guidance and passed the mark.


Dear all...
... here we know much more, than Janes/Wiki sources ever tell about Soviet SAM systems.

This maneuver is stupid. (except optical tracking)
banghead

You should know by heart, how missile guidance (UPR/TT/K) is calculated, and should recognize the outcome of a short pitch up/down tactic...
... SAM missile hit right on the spot.

Please do not repeat myths ...
... we are more serious here.
cowboy

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/31/12 11:52 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3635358 - 08/30/12 08:48 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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piston79 Offline
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Source:
http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Article...version=Staging

Or from the "source of the source":

#3635373 - 08/30/12 09:08 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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That tactic is similar to the one where pilots do a downward dive to beam ( 9 o'clock or 3 o'clock ), and then do a hard turn into the missile during the last few seconds of guidance. This tactic in the diagram above is for pilots who desire to use their jammer to evade, the one I stated is used by pilots who decide not to use it. This is because the ALQ-131 is only effective when the aircraft is either facing the SNR, or running away from the SNR. Also, Hpasp, surprise question, how would YOU employ standoff jammer aircraft during an air campaign or an air strike?

#3635379 - 08/30/12 09:23 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Dear all...
... here we know much more, than Janes/Wiki sources ever tell about Soviet SAM systems.



Don't get me wrong, but putting Janes and Wikipedia in the same basket (of "non-reliable" military information sources) isn't accurate!
While I do agree that the information in wikipedia must be taken with a "grain of salt" and while there's the chance that some sporadic information may not be 100% accurate regarding Jane's, afterall ANY information source doesn't matter where it comes from is prone to errors/inacuracies, but the "level of accuracy" between Wikipedia and Janes is definitly not the same and I would say that the level of accuracy regarding Jane's information is VERY HIGH afterall it's a know FACT that Jane's information is used by some real military forces and intelligence agencies.

#3635622 - 08/31/12 09:42 AM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: ricnunes]  
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farokh Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Don't get me wrong, but putting Janes and Wikipedia in the same basket (of "non-reliable" military information sources) isn't accurate!
While I do agree that the information in wikipedia must be taken with a "grain of salt" and while there's the chance that some sporadic information may not be 100% accurate regarding Jane's, afterall ANY information source doesn't matter where it comes from is prone to errors/inacuracies, but the "level of accuracy" between Wikipedia and Janes is definitly not the same and I would say that the level of accuracy regarding Jane's information is VERY HIGH afterall it's a know FACT that Jane's information is used by some real military forces and intelligence agencies.


ok... guys please slow down every one in here have a personal idea & personal information and personal style thumbsup

we have to respect to all of guys ... rolleyes at different situation janes and wiki give good info to user.
and at different situation hpasp with sam simulator give good info to user.

but i choose hpasp with sam simulator info, because this knowledge is Functional


PS: hpasp create realistic simulator for better Injection info to user mind ... this idea it was great
.. but one website like wiki or other do not have any way to Injection data very well ... info on website's good only for beginners

Last edited by milang; 08/31/12 01:46 PM.
#3635709 - 08/31/12 01:41 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Diving to the Earth is still the Best kinematic tactic against launched single digit SAM's, and I see no point for our targets, to try less effective ones. Even during OAF, it was used against 3/250rd in a situation not depicted in SAMSIM.

on the other side...

... planes of the IAF at the Egyptian scenario, U-2 / B-52 / SR-71 / or AN/ALE-50 towing F-16 aircrafts never does it.
biggrin


mr.hpasp... why in OAF scenario some aircraft like f-15C when i launch missile to him...
f-15c do not show any diving to me ? also that b-52 and u-2
..... maybe f-15c over OAF and b-52's over vietnam during fly used mp3 player biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Last edited by milang; 08/31/12 02:56 PM.
#3635761 - 08/31/12 02:56 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: farokh]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: milang
Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Don't get me wrong, but putting Janes and Wikipedia in the same basket (of "non-reliable" military information sources) isn't accurate!
While I do agree that the information in wikipedia must be taken with a "grain of salt" and while there's the chance that some sporadic information may not be 100% accurate regarding Jane's, afterall ANY information source doesn't matter where it comes from is prone to errors/inacuracies, but the "level of accuracy" between Wikipedia and Janes is definitly not the same and I would say that the level of accuracy regarding Jane's information is VERY HIGH afterall it's a know FACT that Jane's information is used by some real military forces and intelligence agencies.


ok... guys please slow down every one in here have a personal idea & personal information and personal style thumbsup

we have to respect to all of guys ... rolleyes at different situation janes and wiki give good info to user.
and at different situation hpasp with sam simulator give good info to user.

but i choose hpasp with sam simulator info, because this knowledge is Functional


PS: hpasp create realistic simulator for better Injection info to user mind ... this idea it was great
.. but one website like wiki or other do not have any way to Injection data very well ... info on website's good only for beginners



I'm NOT saying that Jane's information/sources are better or more reliable than Hpasp information/sources or vice versa for that matter.
What I'm saying is that Jane's information/sources ARE BETTER than Wikipedia!
Hpasp hinted that Jane's and Wikipedia information and sources "level of accuracy" are similar which is NOT true and this isn't just a personal oppinion but it's a FACT!

#3635852 - 08/31/12 06:33 PM Re: Suggestions + Ideas (sam simulator) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Dear all...
... here we know much more, than Janes/Wiki sources ever tell about Soviet SAM systems.

[You should know by heart, how missile guidance (UPR/TT/K) is calculated, and should recognize the outcome of a short pitch up/down tactic...
... SAM missile hit right on the spot.

Please do not repeat myths ...
... we are more serious here.
cowboy


As I stated before, no Wiki/Janes statement used... Could you get a bit more detailed about your comment? I believe such a maneuver could be succesful against UPR guided missile.

Personnaly I think that 75 series are pretty succesful system (not forgeting it was just the "mobile" analog of S-25 "Berkut", designed for defending against strategic bombers)... The fact they traded speed against G-capabilities in 5Ya23 just confirms some shortcommings in the design against maneuvering targets...



Last edited by piston79; 08/31/12 09:25 PM.
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