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#3629641 - 08/20/12 10:06 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) ***** [Re: Hpasp]  
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xxJohnxx Offline
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Yes, I tried all of them, I have had some great times in the SA-3 and SA-2, I am also able to operate the SA-4, however I am not a fan of it. wink
I have had a lot of fun trying to get Gerry Powers in both the SA-2F and SA-2E, however I am pretty bad in scenarios like Operation Linebacker-II or El Dorado Canyon. Either the SEAD get's me with it's ARMs or I don't get a hit against any target, as I try to keep On Air Time short which messes up my shooting. biggrin
I like the SA-5 most, as it has some neat features, like the home on jam and the ability to launch as many missiles as the launcher can hold in a single salvo (sometimes very usefull against an SR-71).

However, I am slowly getting better with all the systems especially against SEAD yep

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3629644 - 08/20/12 10:41 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: xxJohnxx]  
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farokh Offline
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I-RAN
dude... please be aware! hit one target in ashuluk , it not same as u could hit target it scenario's biggrin
u have to join in scenario's like linebreak II for upper your skill's!
if u can't hit one target in line break II with sa-2 or sa-3 ,u are still beginner in there thumbsup


Originally Posted By: xxJohnxx
Yes, I tried all of them, I have had some great times in the SA-3 and SA-2, I am also able to operate the SA-4, however I am not a fan of it. wink
I have had a lot of fun trying to get Gerry Powers in both the SA-2F and SA-2E, however I am pretty bad in scenarios like Operation Linebacker-II or El Dorado Canyon. Either the SEAD get's me with it's ARMs or I don't get a hit against any target, as I try to keep On Air Time short which messes up my shooting. biggrin
I like the SA-5 most, as it has some neat features, like the home on jam and the ability to launch as many missiles as the launcher can hold in a single salvo (sometimes very usefull against an SR-71).

However, I am slowly getting better with all the systems especially against SEAD yep

Last edited by milang; 08/20/12 10:43 AM.
#3631325 - 08/23/12 09:01 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Mdore Offline
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Hpasp, could you possibly put the SA-5 in as a historically-inaccurate option for the Vietnam and Egyptian missions? I'd like to see how it would perform.

#3631331 - 08/23/12 09:24 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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It would be great, I vote also for this. There are only a few scenarios for my most favorite system.

#3631363 - 08/23/12 12:34 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Mdore]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Mdore
Hpasp, could you possibly put the SA-5 in as a historically-inaccurate option for the Vietnam and Egyptian missions? I'd like to see how it would perform.


I will think it over...
... usually USAF is acting specifically against SAM types in the theater of action.

If we put some new systems in a scenario, than in reality than USAF would fly differently...

... but I will give it a thought.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3631364 - 08/23/12 12:37 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Yes, but it would be a non-historical scenario thumbsup

#3652300 - 09/28/12 10:05 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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#3656084 - 10/04/12 07:41 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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I-RAN
guyss... 1 question... as you see 2 s-200 missile launch at one moment in this piicture...

so why we cant in sam simuator launching 2 missile at 1 moment ? dizzy


#3656088 - 10/04/12 07:55 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: farokh]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: milang
guyss... 1 question... as you see 2 s-200 missile launch at one moment in this piicture...
so why we cant in sam simuator launching 2 missile at 1 moment ? dizzy


Probably because there are two batteries on this photo.....

#3656101 - 10/04/12 08:42 AM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: milang
guyss... 1 question... as you see 2 s-200 missile launch at one moment in this piicture...
so why we cant in sam simuator launching 2 missile at 1 moment ? dizzy


Probably because there are two batteries on this photo.....


In Ashuluk to reduce the live firing practice costs, it was a common practice that two batteries launched against the same drone, one with inert warhead.

Last edited by Hpasp; 10/04/12 08:49 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3675106 - 11/04/12 04:22 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: oban21
Hello Everybody! wave Im "new" to this form (vell relatyvly speaking,as a registered member at lest) and just wants to say hello to evrybody who shares admiration to and enjoymanet in this beautifull little sim of our Hungarian friend (and my "neibhor", Im from Serbia) Hpasp! wave2 GREAT WORK!!!thumbsup I have allready done some "achivements" biggrin by counqering this wonderfull, but little bit strange and hard-to-learn russian technique, in missions like "Linenbeaker II" by downing both SR-71's with dvina (boy that was hard!!!), which im going to post here if somebody's like to see it! Now, I heave encountered a real problem whit this Sim,also!It's about my favorith SA-5 Gammon! I just can't shoot a single missile in Hungarian scenario beacouse the firing buttons are complitly DEAD in it! I understand that it's a training mission whit no real rockets meant to be launch, as I've allredy play it whit "dvina`s" and "volkhov`s"! And it`s preatty annoying, mad I must say, beacouse there wasn`t a word about procedure for that mission in manual for sa-5! Neither was there anything that I could find about it on this forum. sigh So if anybody could help...I will appreciate it,greatly!;) See you guys and... sorry for bad English!:(


This is quite a complex question to be answered...

... while the Dvina/Volhov/Neva systems were compromised to the west relatively early, the Vega was quite an enigma for the west during the Cold War.

Consequently it was forbidden for the Vega crew to illuminate any civilian plane, as it could have been possibly equipped with HF recording equipment by the CIA.
(The first Volhov signals was recorded by the CIA above Berlin, aboard a civilian passenger plane...)

For the Vega crew, a different practice method was developed, called K7.
(you can find the relevant switch in the sim easily)

In K7 mode, the RPC would emit low powered signals towards a close-by special K7 tower, that will simulate the targets Doppler effect by emitting the signal back towards the RPC & the launchers.



So practice was like; switching the RPC into K7 mode, rotate it exactly towards the K7 tower, after detecting the simulated incoming plane, you could practice electronic launches against it.

(Currently this mode is not simulated, but it is one of the future candidates...)

Last edited by Hpasp; 11/04/12 05:09 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3675281 - 11/04/12 08:58 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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montieris Offline
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baltics
Interesting story about SIGINT between WARPAC and NATO. thumbsup

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
K7 tower,

This mode reminds me old article about "radar spoofer".
http://servv89pn0aj.sn.sourcedns.com/~gbpprorg/mil/wall/Radar_Speed_Controller.pdf

#3681910 - 11/14/12 04:31 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: milang
dear hpasp... before publish new version on samsim... could u create one manual ashuluk site for sa-5 gammon?

all of systems in sam sim had a ideal position in ashuluk target but sa-5 has no enough space for fighting and all of ashuluk target launching from under 150KM frown but vega's kill zone is 200


The full range capability of the Vega system was not practiced in Ashuluk.
Hungarians had only one firing practice with the Vega, against two targets:
LA-17K D=75km H=8km
RM-207 D=67km H=16km


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3685698 - 11/20/12 09:14 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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wasserfall Offline
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Why can't we choose non-historical scenarios?

#3686156 - 11/21/12 04:55 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: wasserfall]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: wasserfall
Why can't we choose non-historical scenarios?


Your enemies were flying these missions in the knowledge, that the Vega system is not in the theater.
If Vega would have been there, they would fly the missions differently...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3704434 - 12/22/12 12:26 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
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piston79 Offline
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Is it normal, when target's doppler speed goes down (when it was destroyed, per example), the signal strenght indicator not to change it's indications? It's indications changed only by range to the target (incoming - up; receiding - down)?

May we have a bit more explanation about that???

#3704441 - 12/22/12 12:58 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
Is it normal, when target's doppler speed goes down (when it was destroyed, per example), the signal strenght indicator not to change it's indications? It's indications changed only by range to the target (incoming - up; receiding - down)?

May we have a bit more explanation about that???


Target RCS deterioration after a SAM hit is not simulated.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3707772 - 12/28/12 05:08 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
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CooLDoG Offline
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I know I ave said this 1000 times. But I'm going to learn this bad boy. I have got all of the others more or less down pat, I'm a little out of practice with the KRUG, but it wou;d take just a few minutes to re-learn.

Expect either a bunch of newbie questions or success reports!

Also, I'm not too much a fan of letting you shoot in missions like Linebacker with the Sa-5b, because it wouldn't be any fun!

#3707841 - 12/28/12 07:12 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: CooLDoG]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: CooLDoG
I know I ave said this 1000 times. But I'm going to learn this bad boy. I have got all of the others more or less down pat, I'm a little out of practice with the KRUG, but it wou;d take just a few minutes to re-learn.

Expect either a bunch of newbie questions or success reports!

Also, I'm not too much a fan of letting you shoot in missions like Linebacker with the Sa-5b, because it wouldn't be any fun!


Welcome to the Big Stick!




Contrary to other Soviet made SAM systems (SA-2/3/6), the US NAVY/HABU community had BIG respect towards the SA-5B Gammon system, during Operation El-Dorado Canyon. The jamming EA-6B's had to fly an ineffectively low racetrack, as nobody in CIA that time had a clue if the Benghazi SA-5B would be operational during the EDC raid...
thumbsup

Just remember to the Commander of the Soviet Union Air Defense, when he demonstrated to the engineers, what kind of SAM system they need to develop...



biggrin

PS: If you were living at the Eastern side of the Iron Curtain, than you will recognize, that this request should not be taken as a joke by the engineers...

... also this is the last BIG STICK before the emerging of the S-300 family, so if you learn to be proficient using it, than this digital panel should not surprise you.



Last edited by Hpasp; 12/28/12 08:04 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3727613 - 01/30/13 12:44 PM Re: S-200VE Vega-E (SA-5B Gammon) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Czech Republic
Not sure whether it is a bug or not, but in any case it is suspicious.

I tried Giant reach scenario again, fired one missile against SR-71 so it started to jam.
Then switched GSN mode to POISK V VYKL. and fired remaining five missiles (5N62 was not turned off).
Roughly at the moment when SR-71 flew tangential path, so its Vr decreased near to zero, all five missiles even they were guided to the jamming source and not searched for a doppler signal, were lost. See attached 3DAAR.
Of course I had AS-2 lock and AS-RPC (target coordinater I got from IADS and jamming noise was visible on both speed/distance and spectrum indicators).

I am not sure whether low Vr has something to do with losing of missiles, but I do not know why they were lost.

3DAAR showing the problem

Click to reveal..
14:00 28th of March, 1985.
SR-71 Operation Giant Reach.

S-200VE Vega-E


+++++++++++++++++
00:07:04, SNR ON AIR


00:08:01, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 229km
Target azimuth: 321
Target elevation: 4
Target angular speed: 338m/s (1,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 15,3dB


00:09:17, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 223km
Target azimuth: 304
Target elevation: 4
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:09:32, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 226km
Target azimuth: 301
Target elevation: 4
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:09:37, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 227km
Target azimuth: 300
Target elevation: 4
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:09:42, Missile launched from launcher-5
Target distance: 228km
Target azimuth: 299
Target elevation: 4
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:09:50, Missile launched from launcher-6
Target distance: 230km
Target azimuth: 297
Target elevation: 4
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:16:31, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 161km
Target azimuth: 219
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:16:37, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 157km
Target azimuth: 218
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:16:51, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 146km
Target azimuth: 216
Target elevation: 7
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:17:04, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 136km
Target azimuth: 213
Target elevation: 7
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:17:17, Missile launched from launcher-5
Target distance: 127km
Target azimuth: 210
Target elevation: 8
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:17:22, Missile launched from launcher-6
Target distance: 123km
Target azimuth: 209
Target elevation: 8
Target angular speed: 196m/s (0,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 20km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Home on Jam
Received signal strength: 45dB


00:17:52, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 65m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 12min 32sec


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