Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#3203528 - 02/09/11 10:52 PM Re: SAM Simulator ***** [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
NaiseFail Offline
Member
NaiseFail  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
Virginia
Was browsing for more info on the elusive SA-4/3M8M3, instead I found these:

http://www.fortifikace.net/pov_pvos_skupina_vega.html
http://www.fortifikace.net/pov_pvos_skupina_vega_rapotice.html

Also, I'd be very interested in any information you could provide about the SA-4, such as the reference sites you used while creating the system. I've been unsuccessful so far in finding any truly in-depth information regarding the SA-4, or the 3M8M3.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3203820 - 02/10/11 07:16 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
The best sites, that I found, are at the bottom of the SAMSIM homepage.
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

The pictures were shot at Hungary:

Hungarian Air Defense Museum, Zsmbk (Volhov, Neva, 1S12 Long Track)
http://legvedelmimuzeum.hu/en.html

12. Arrabona Air Defense Regiment, Gyor (1S32 KRUG)
http://www.raketaezred.hu/

Army History Museum and Park, Kecel (Vega, Shilka)
http://www.museum.hu/museum/index_en.php?ID=961

About the SA4, I got the usual (~1500 pages of) Hungarian language manuals...



Last edited by Hpasp; 02/10/11 07:19 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3203829 - 02/10/11 07:46 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 29
PLCC Offline
Junior Member
PLCC  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 29
Originally Posted By: NaiseFail
http://www.fortifikace.net/pov_pvos_skupina_vega_rapotice.html


This page contains a link to an interesting video about that S-200 site: http://www.fortifikace.net/soubory/rapotice_video.mp4.

Can anybody identify the instrument that appears at 2:50?

#3203873 - 02/10/11 09:33 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: PLCC]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Certainly.
hahaha

That is the leftmost round instrument of the K9 cabin. (It is not simulated)
In this cabin, the commander of the site were guided the firing batteries.





Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3203874 - 02/10/11 09:33 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
NaiseFail Offline
Member
NaiseFail  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
Virginia
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
About the SA4, I got the usual (~1500 pages of) Hungarian language manuals...


Ugh.. It's always a language I can't read, lol. After spending a few more hours Google diving, I'm really surprised by the lack of interesting information. It seems like every site I find that actually mentions the 2K11-M1/SA-4 just repeats what all the others say. And so far the only internal images I've found are pictures taken by someone who thought it'd be great to place a massive watermark of his email address right through the middle. Pretty sad as they're up close pictures of some of the station panels..

I am however rather pleased with some of the pictures I found of the missile, a performance chart, and pictures showing how the radar deploys/stows.

Quote:






Also, two new questions. First, after the initial launch of the missile, are the solid fuel boosters ripped off of the 3M8M3 missile, or is there a system to release them? Secondly, what does 1 do?

#3203878 - 02/10/11 09:36 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: PLCC]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
This page contains a link to an interesting video about that S-200 site:
http://www.fortifikace.net/soubory/rapotice_video.mp4

Extremely good find!!!
Everybody should watch it.
thumbsup

Last edited by Hpasp; 02/10/11 09:37 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3203887 - 02/10/11 09:48 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
1, SNR Frequency selector switch.
You can find the same at the Volhov "Z" panel.

Usually guarded so one frequency was used in peacetime, and another in wartime.
(In case the enemy listens before the hostilities begun.)

Last edited by Hpasp; 02/10/11 09:50 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3203901 - 02/10/11 10:00 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
NaiseFail Offline
Member
NaiseFail  Offline
Member

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
Virginia
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
1, SNR Frequency selector switch.
You can find the same at the Volhov "Z" panel.

Usually guarded so one frequency was used in peacetime, and another in wartime.
(In case the enemy listens before the hostilities begun.)

That's a pretty good trick. Does the Gammon have that ability too?

#3204229 - 02/10/11 06:03 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
All the WarPact, (and I assume) that Western systems were capable of it.
(You need the capability to tune your frequency away, if you are close to another similar system.)


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3627385 - 08/16/12 09:49 AM 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef)  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Lets discuss 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) specific issues here...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3630510 - 08/21/12 07:10 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
For what purpose is this button?


#3631368 - 08/23/12 12:42 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
For what purpose is this button?

Click to reveal..



That is a three state "h - delta h" selector.
Used during initial system check.
Should be in the middle setting during battle.

So its wrong in the sim.

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/23/12 12:43 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3638016 - 09/04/12 12:55 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: Lieste
Is a Krug 'engagement' really one missile though? ~ I had the impression (not confirmed by checking the manuals I must admit) that almost all fired 2-3 missiles per target.

With 2 rounds for the engagement, the equivalent SSKP is 83% & within the range of the other missiles.

Obviously in the 'real world' nothing like this accuracy should be expected from any of these systems, especially if you have dense jamming and ARM considerations that might force dropping track, plus manoeuvring fighter targets.


Manual describes different cases:

Using one 3M8M3 missile...
... against a 6g maneuvering target, you have 50~90% hit probability.
... against a less than 5g maneuvering target, you have at least 75% hit probability.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3639105 - 09/05/12 07:36 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Picture
Picture2

It is from this site:
http://pilot.strizhi.info/2006/12/16/1463

Some memories:

Quote:
On Emba shot on a "Virage" - РМ on the basis of ЗМ8. Shot also against reflector (parachute) and against(La-17) earlier.
Here such event. In 1985 shot on "Virage". On the first target any of 9 stations of crew has not track succesfuly. Shooting have stopped - crews - couple of weeks training. As then it turned out - in РМ have not put an angular reflector - no one knew is it on purpose or not..
After two weeks on two targets spent 7 rockets.
I.e. reflection 3М8 is not enough for this complex...


From here:
http://forums.airbase.ru/2005/03/t32120,7--pochemu-zrk-krug-ne-postavlyalsya-na-eksport.html

#3640831 - 09/08/12 08:23 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Is it nnormal, when the target is in full tracking and switch off the transmitter - to have on display killing zones and point of impact?
Also, still when SNR is hit, the game terminated (that was reported as a bug by someone before...

#3641054 - 09/09/12 07:23 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
Is it nnormal, when the target is in full tracking and switch off the transmitter - to have on display killing zones and point of impact?


Yes, that is from the analogue computer. (used first time in the KRUG)

Originally Posted By: piston79
Also, still when SNR is hit, the game terminated (that was reported as a bug by someone before...


That is, how it was designed.

If a KRUG SNR is hit, that is also terminal for its crew.
(You are sitting right below the antenna)


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3641332 - 09/09/12 08:00 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

Question at KRUG minimum target height of 150 meters.

The report will show here how is it 125 meters hit the Tomahawk!

Click to reveal..


Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk

2K11 KRUG-M1


00:10, Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk launched

+++++++++++++++++
00:00:20, SNR ON AIR


00:03:02, Missile launched
Target distance: 28km
Target azimuth: 70
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 125m
Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)


00:03:32, Missile exploded
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 14m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 22sec



#3646984 - 09/19/12 06:40 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: max2012]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: max2012

Question at KRUG minimum target height of 150 meters.

The report will show here how is it 125 meters hit the Tomahawk!

Click to reveal..


Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk

2K11 KRUG-M1


00:10, Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk launched

+++++++++++++++++
00:00:20, SNR ON AIR


00:03:02, Missile launched
Target distance: 28km
Target azimuth: 70
Target elevation: 0
Target altitude: 125m
Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)


00:03:32, Missile exploded
Practice target LA-17K simulating BGM-109 Tomahawk killed by SAM. (miss distance: 14m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 22sec




No. This was the target altitude at missile launch, not at missile impact.

00:03:02, Missile launched
Target altitude: 125m


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3647550 - 09/20/12 02:24 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481


I realized then show the height of target during missile launch.

And you can make in the report, has been shown to target height, after the destruction of the goal?

A6 can knock KRUG, A6 flying at an altitude of 100 meters?

Tornado can also KRUG

#3647555 - 09/20/12 02:28 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
I'll try to knock Tornado and A6 with KRUG

If I succeed, then most error

Because the minimum height destroys targets in KRUG only 150 meters

Tornado aircraft target flying at an altitude of 100 meters, and the A6 is also in the simulator.


Last edited by max2012; 09/20/12 02:28 PM.
#3674527 - 11/03/12 11:10 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Mdore Offline
Member
Mdore  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Is it supposed to be impossible to hit the A-4 during training with the SA-4?

Always shortly after launch my missiles disappear. I guess hitting the ground? The manual says minimum target altitude is 300m, and I always launch when the target altitude is 600-1000m, but still they disappear.

Am I doing something wrong?

#3674604 - 11/03/12 02:52 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Mdore
Is it supposed to be impossible to hit the A-4 during training with the SA-4?

Always shortly after launch my missiles disappear. I guess hitting the ground? The manual says minimum target altitude is 300m, and I always launch when the target altitude is 600-1000m, but still they disappear.

Am I doing something wrong?


Use T/T guidance mode...Also low level killing envelope is quite small (wait 'till point of impact reaches ~12 km). It is nice when has some questions about SIM to post at least both AAR-s....

#3685423 - 11/20/12 02:41 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh Offline
farokh
farokh  Offline
farokh
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
i have some question about it:

1. why sa-4 ganef retire from sevis ? of course u talk about that but i forget it biggrin
2. why this system do not sent to other country ? no iran no iraq ... just serveral country
3. sa-4 missile can how many keep G force on air ? 10G ? 12G ? 14G?
4. why when i launched sa-4 and check 3daar ... missile like a crazy rocket going down and going up ?

br

#3685587 - 11/20/12 06:12 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: farokh]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: milang
i have some question about it:

1. why sa-4 ganef retire from sevis ? of course u talk about that but i forget it biggrin
2. why this system do not sent to other country ? no iran no iraq ... just serveral country
3. sa-4 missile can how many keep G force on air ? 10G ? 12G ? 14G?
4. why when i launched sa-4 and check 3daar ... missile like a crazy rocket going down and going up ?

br


1,2 I think that these were discussed earlier.

The main purpose of fielding the KRUG Brigade (SA-4B) was to defend the WarPact Army of Front SCUD (SS-1C) Brigade armed with nuclear weapons.


As no nuclear tipped SCUD (SS-1C) was exported outside the WarPact, there was no point to export its air defense.

When Hungary exited the WarPact, all nuclear warheads of our SCUD missiles were shipped back to Russia.



As Hungary never had any conventional warhead for the SCUD system, the SCUDs were scrapped, with its air defense few years after.

3, please read the manual.

Last edited by Hpasp; 11/20/12 07:03 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3685804 - 11/21/12 12:30 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

Rocket 3M8M3 the minimum allowable height of 150 meters.

The documentation is written!

#3685805 - 11/21/12 12:32 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Mdore]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

Where did the user "Mdore" has found 300 meters

#3685894 - 11/21/12 05:15 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: max2012]  
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Mdore Offline
Member
Mdore  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 249
Originally Posted By: max2012

Where did the user "Mdore" has found 300 meters


From the manual

"Selecting missile guidance method
Preparations for Shooting using 3m (Three Point) guidance method
(Push the X button to call up the Commanders and Angle Officers panels)
If the target parameters are in the green zone, (H 300m-16km, V<=330m/s) the three-
point guidance method is selected.

...

Preparations for Shooting using 1&#8260;2 (Half-Lead) guidance method
(Push the X button to call up the Commanders and Angle Officers panels)
If the target parameters are in the green zone, (H 300m-24.5km, V<=800m/s) the half-
lead guidance method can be selected."

#3686004 - 11/21/12 11:25 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

It then tell me here?


#3686005 - 11/21/12 11:27 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

It is not clear there's 300 meters, 150 meters here!

#3686006 - 11/21/12 11:30 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

A4 objective without problems should, every missile can.

#3686010 - 11/21/12 11:40 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

Here you just discussed this.

I didn't know then how come here 150 meters 300 meters ...


#3711776 - 01/04/13 12:52 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

When the target is above the the SNR, than several functions could return 0, so this issue should be investigated more.


I believe that when target goes out of P-40's detection, "Pat Hand" just must stop trackin it (when no range or angle track was established0, and when it appears again, should be reaquired with the joystick on p-40 and then send to "Pat hand'....

It is a quite an interesting issue how "Long track" is autotracking targets... confused


The 1S12 SOC (Long Track) tracks the target similarly as the modern digital radars (ST-68U [Tin Shield]) do, just they do it for several targets parallel.



It first measures the (X/Y/H)"0" coordinate of a target, than during the next sweep, finds the closest target to that coordinate.
This will be the (X/Y/H)"1" coordinate. With a quick math, delta(X/Y/H) is determined.
During the third sweep, it looks for the closest target at (X/Y/H)"1" + delta(X/Y/H).
That will be (X/Y/H)"2", and the difference from (X/Y/H)"1" is again delta(X/Y/H).
etc...

Last edited by Hpasp; 01/04/13 12:54 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3753061 - 03/18/13 07:46 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
According to the manual, the target and the missile where tracked by different antennas (1/2), and with ABC-I only - in (T/T)...

Let's imagine a situation of switching from 1/2 to T/T, if the missile is beyond the ABC-I diagram, could we loss a missile, and is such changing in methods of guidance is possible at all? screwy

#3753065 - 03/18/13 07:54 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
According to the manual, the target and the missile where tracked by different antennas (1/2), and with ABC-I only - in (T/T)...

Let's imagine a situation of switching from 1/2 to T/T, if the missile is beyond the ABC-I diagram, could we loss a missile, and is such changing in methods of guidance is possible at all? screwy


Not exactly.

The target is always tracked by the AVS-I antenna.
Right after the launch, the missile is tracked by the AVS-II antenna system, in both (1/2, 3T) guidance methods.

During 1/2 guidance method, the missile is kept tracked by the AVS-II till hit.
With 3T, if the missile is reached the AVS-I beam, than its guidance is switched from AVS-II to AVS-I, and this is indicated by the NAVED light. (manual page 43/5)

Last edited by Hpasp; 03/18/13 07:57 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3753072 - 03/18/13 08:19 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

With 3T, if the missile is reached the AVS-I beam, than its guidance is switched from AVS-II to AVS-I, and this is indicated by the NAVED light. (manual page 43/5)


So, if we switch from 1/2 to t/t, it will change the antennas only when missiles goes in AVS-I beam... But what about the opposite? wink

#3753075 - 03/18/13 08:28 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

With 3T, if the missile is reached the AVS-I beam, than its guidance is switched from AVS-II to AVS-I, and this is indicated by the NAVED light. (manual page 43/5)


So, if we switch from 1/2 to t/t, it will change the antennas only when missiles goes in AVS-I beam... But what about the opposite? wink


The AVS-II is always tracking the missile, just the AVS-I is used for better resolution in case of 3T.
In real life, switching between method 3T to 1/2 would probably mean the loosing of the missile...

In the KRUG manual it is stated, that the Commander choose between the 3T* or 1/2 guidance method before launch, and it is forbidden to change it during missile flight.

* please use 3T and 1/2 guidance methods when discussing the KRUG. (not T/T and UPR)
thumbsup

Last edited by Hpasp; 03/18/13 08:38 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3753680 - 03/19/13 07:29 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

In the KRUG manual it is stated, that the Commander choose between the 3T* or 1/2 guidance method before launch, and it is forbidden to change it during missile flight.


OK, that's fine...

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
* please use 3T and 1/2 guidance methods when discussing the KRUG. (not T/T and UPR)
thumbsup


OK, I do, but 3T and T/T is the same ("trehtochka" - "three points" or "3 points")

#3753685 - 03/19/13 07:43 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh Offline
farokh
farokh  Offline
farokh
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
excuse me guys.. what different between 3T and T/T ? confused

#3753735 - 03/19/13 09:03 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79

OK, I do, but 3T and T/T is the same ("trehtochka" - "three points" or "3 points")


Correct.

Just use the correct name for the system.
KRUG use 1/2 or 3T guidance methods.
Osa will use the T/T or the Fi method.
thumbsup

Last edited by Hpasp; 03/19/13 09:14 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3754035 - 03/20/13 12:33 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh Offline
farokh
farokh  Offline
farokh
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Osa will use the T/T or the Fi method.
thumbsup


what is the FI mode ? this method usually use for IR tracking?

#3792475 - 06/05/13 05:43 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008

#3812268 - 07/20/13 08:16 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh Offline
farokh
farokh  Offline
farokh
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
in manual pdf hpasp do not wrote about sustainer speed !

hpasp.... wave
i guess this missile fly at low speed as i feel !
what is 3m8m3 missile ?

#3875833 - 12/12/13 09:21 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008

Last edited by piston79; 12/13/13 07:59 PM.
#3909716 - 02/10/14 07:10 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3909740 - 02/10/14 10:02 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Former Czechoslovak training Krug....




#3921653 - 03/07/14 09:06 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Architrav Offline
Junior Member
Architrav  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Austria
What is the vehicle in the third picture? Height finder or perhaps part of a target simulator system?

#3921666 - 03/07/14 10:00 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Architrav]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Architrav
What is the vehicle in the third picture? Height finder or perhaps part of a target simulator system?


SNR on the move....

#3921805 - 03/08/14 07:18 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Architrav]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: Architrav
What is the vehicle in the third picture? Height finder or perhaps part of a target simulator system?


Page 8-9 of the English Manual...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3921821 - 03/08/14 08:55 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Architrav Offline
Junior Member
Architrav  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Austria
Of course. duh

#3921857 - 03/08/14 11:38 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Former Czechoslovak training Krug....


Please, could you share the source? It is important...

(Do you know the names of the people on the picture)?

#3924543 - 03/14/14 07:16 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
I will send you a PM....

#3946656 - 04/29/14 07:23 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd






Guys, it looks like the transmitting antennae of SA-4 and SA-8 are on the same principle - they have a reflector (or some kind of filter) in front of transmitter antenna.....

#3946660 - 04/29/14 07:30 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
ePap Offline
Member
ePap  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
Athens
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd






Guys, it looks like the transmitting antennae of SA-4 and SA-8 are on the same principle - they have a reflector (or some kind of filter) in front of transmitter antenna.....


For SA-8b it is truth that it is reflector because of one transmitting /receiving antenna.

#3946677 - 04/29/14 07:59 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
It is a filter, I am not sure whether it is a some kind of polarizer (received signal has different polarization) or some band pass or so on. Anyways one antenna for transmit/receive is also true for other systems (except for Vega and PODSVET mode at Volkhov and tracking mode of Neva). Switching is done in other ways (for example switching within waveguide with a special "switch").

#3946680 - 04/29/14 08:07 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
ePap Offline
Member
ePap  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 339
Athens
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
It is a filter, I am not sure whether it is a some kind of polarizer (received signal has different polarization) or some band pass or so on. Anyways one antenna for transmit/receive is also true for other systems (except for Vega and PODSVET mode at Volkhov and tracking mode of Neva). Switching is done in other ways (for example switching within waveguide with a special "switch").


For OSA also works polarizing the receiving signals !

#3946899 - 04/30/14 06:49 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Yes, that's what I wrote, polarizing filter :-)

#3983669 - 07/21/14 01:22 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim Offline
Member
scrim  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
Question about the range: A book I'm reading (and Wikipedia (I know, crap source)) lists the range of the SA-4 as being almost 800km). What's up with that, is there any truth to it? Different version than the one in SAM sim, or just straight off the walls wrong?

Last edited by scrim; 07/21/14 01:22 AM.
#3983745 - 07/21/14 05:31 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: scrim]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 8
ckfinite Offline
Junior Member
ckfinite  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 8
I think that that number refers to the range the TEL can travel without having to refuel, which seems to be the only reasonable hypothesis.

#3983784 - 07/21/14 09:57 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
At the first sight, isn't it strange for such a small missile to travel for 800km (just imagine Vega size and it has only 250km flight range)? nope screwy

And if you look at wikipedia, there are two CLEARLY identified sections, one for TEL (range of 780km) and one for missile (55km)....

#3983808 - 07/21/14 11:56 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
scrim Offline
Member
scrim  Offline
Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,180
Ah yes, so it does. However, the book says "An example of a ramjet powered SAM was the Krug missile (NATO reporting name SA-4) of the former Soviet Union. The use of a ramjet gave the Krug an exceptionally long operational range - almost 800km!"

So, you're probably gonna want to steer well clear of "Surface-to-Air Missiles: Part of the Weapons of War Series" by Andrew May. Damn Wikipedia scientist is what he appears to be.

#3983839 - 07/21/14 12:57 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Yes, these books are in almost every case crap :-(

#3995810 - 08/15/14 06:08 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
As Lenin said...
... learn - learn - learn.
biggrin



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3996134 - 08/15/14 06:37 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Where you got that?

#3996149 - 08/15/14 06:57 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Hungarian ones from Keszthely.






Last edited by Hpasp; 08/15/14 06:57 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4011499 - 09/18/14 08:32 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


The 1S12 SOC (Long Track) tracks the target similarly as the modern digital radars (ST-68U [Tin Shield]) do, just they do it for several targets parallel.



It first measures the (X/Y/H)"0" coordinate of a target, than during the next sweep, finds the closest target to that coordinate.
This will be the (X/Y/H)"1" coordinate. With a quick math, delta(X/Y/H) is determined.
During the third sweep, it looks for the closest target at (X/Y/H)"1" + delta(X/Y/H).
That will be (X/Y/H)"2", and the difference from (X/Y/H)"1" is again delta(X/Y/H).
etc...


If "Long Track" is a 3D radar, why they're using height-finders?

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/clLlp4SDXyo?t=9m43s[/video]

#4011714 - 09/19/14 06:36 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Maybe for close high altitude targets outside the beam of the aquisition radar? And maybe they need to know the height of targets for distribution of target data to other units so the position and info can be plotted on the plotting board.

Long track will not tell you how high the target is.

#4011748 - 09/19/14 09:58 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


The 1S12 SOC (Long Track) tracks the target similarly as the modern digital radars (ST-68U [Tin Shield]) do, just they do it for several targets parallel.



It first measures the (X/Y/H)"0" coordinate of a target, than during the next sweep, finds the closest target to that coordinate.
This will be the (X/Y/H)"1" coordinate. With a quick math, delta(X/Y/H) is determined.
During the third sweep, it looks for the closest target at (X/Y/H)"1" + delta(X/Y/H).
That will be (X/Y/H)"2", and the difference from (X/Y/H)"1" is again delta(X/Y/H).
etc...


If "Long Track" is a 3D radar, why they're using height-finders?

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/clLlp4SDXyo?t=9m43s[/video]


"Long Track" means two* radar types, and non of these are 3D in today sense**.

1RL128 P40 - with height finder, used for fighter guidance, and at SAM Brigade level.


1S12 SOC - without height finder, used at KRUG/KUB battalion level.


*easy way to differentiate between these sets from the outside, is to count vertical stiffeners in the antenna.
P40 has 9, while the SOC has 14.
biggrin

**SOC has azimuth, range, and coarse elevation information.
For the SNR with elevation scanning it is enough, for a successful fighter guidance it is not.


Last edited by Hpasp; 09/19/14 12:26 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4011898 - 09/19/14 05:53 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Thanks, I did not know this.

But in the video, they have a dedicated PRV heightfinder, probably for the first reason (higher level of command).

#4011924 - 09/19/14 06:42 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted By: Hpasp


1S12 SOC - without height finder, used at KRUG/KUB battalion level.




On video they are 1S12 SOC and a PRV (-9 or -16)...

#4012157 - 09/20/14 10:26 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012 Offline
Member
max2012  Offline
Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481

Well done Hpasp!

Pictures are very beautiful Thank you!

#4017792 - 10/03/14 11:09 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Privately owned KRUG...



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4018785 - 10/06/14 04:39 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe




Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4111784 - 04/25/15 08:22 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Hi! Here're some pictures I took today during the "day of tanks" in Milovice (Czech). Krug is completely dead (except the positioning motors of the radar antenna) so far however I've managed to start up the turbine generator in Kub 2K12 TEL (2P25) so I'll try to take a video once I figure out how to move the platform. And maybe I'll power up the Krug from it so we can lift up the rockets. Obviously both the rockets and the radar parts were legally demilitarized but still all the panels lit will look great and the noise from the fans inside is quite impressive as well. It's really a great piece of a historical machine and I'm more and more amazed while discovering how all its systems woked.





Last edited by Jarda1S32; 04/25/15 08:23 PM.
#4153886 - 08/04/15 08:27 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Hi all,

time has passed and the next "day of tanks" at Tankodrom Milovice is coming up. It's going to take place on the last Saturday of the month (29.8.2015) and of course the Krug won't be left in the garage. In case someone was somewhere near Prague, it's an ideal opportunity to take a look. Of course we still don't have a power source so it's only a static display but still it's pretty interesting.
Our efforts are unending though so I'm sure we'll make some more progress in the future. Here're some pictures. I'm happy to say that we're finally getting somewhere with the renovation of this piece of technique. We've been focusing on the 2P24 lately as we'd like to paint it (it's very rusty) and make the elevation and azimuth systems moving. In order to do that we need to repair hydraulic actuators which I'm working on now.









Also I've obtained some documentation lately so in case somebody had a question I'm happy to look the answer up. smile

Last edited by Jarda1S32; 08/04/15 08:38 PM.
#4157733 - 08/15/15 04:22 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Nice work!


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4230844 - 02/18/16 11:36 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Hi again. Here're some pictures from an event we recently had and the 2P24 was involved. Also I have a video but it was filmed from the 2P24's commander's seat so you can't actually see much of it in it.:)





Hopefully we'll get some actual work done as spring develops. In summer I'm planning on starting up the gas turbine generator in 1S32.

Last edited by Jarda1S32; 02/18/16 11:47 PM.
#4267687 - 06/06/16 08:06 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Hi. So I'm here to report some progress for those who are interested. Just recently we managed to get the hydraulic counterbalance system (on 2P24) working, luckily the whole automatic still works so it wasn't such a big deal in the end. I took a video of operation. Unfortunately the camera recording the actuator wasn't on so I only have pictures. Hopefully I'll take a better video next time. If I feel like unscrewing 20 screws while taking off the covering.... biggrin So here it is. The purpose of the system is to balance the weight of ty rocket by hydraulic pressure (around 12MPa). In the first picture you can see the whole setup (there are two total - one for each rocket). The green big thing at the top is an accumulator, under it there is a hydraulic pump and it's motor and there is an oil tank at the left corner. The second picture shows the piston of the pneumatic accumulator when unpressurized and the last picture when it's pressurized (fully in). The accumulator also serves as the pressure switch (microswitches on the piston itself). And finaly a video of the operator's panel during the operation. The pump takes around 300A of current while near the end of the cycle, that's why only one pump can run at the time. This part of the system doesn't need the AC supply so it works only from batteries (27V starting power source in our case).





Last edited by Jarda1S32; 06/06/16 08:13 PM.
#4268012 - 06/07/16 07:26 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jarda1S32]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Originally Posted By: Jarda1S32
Hi. So I'm here to report some progress for those who are interested. Just recently we managed to get the hydraulic counterbalance system (on 2P24) working, luckily the whole automatic still works so it wasn't such a big deal in the end. I took a video of operation. Unfortunately the camera recording the actuator wasn't on so I only have pictures. Hopefully I'll take a better video next time. If I feel like unscrewing 20 screws while taking off the covering.... biggrin So here it is. The purpose of the system is to balance the weight of ty rocket by hydraulic pressure (around 12MPa). In the first picture you can see the whole setup (there are two total - one for each rocket). The green big thing at the top is an accumulator, under it there is a hydraulic pump and it's motor and there is an oil tank at the left corner. The second picture shows the piston of the pneumatic accumulator when unpressurized and the last picture when it's pressurized (fully in). The accumulator also serves as the pressure switch (microswitches on the piston itself). And finaly a video of the operator's panel during the operation. The pump takes around 300A of current while near the end of the cycle, that's why only one pump can run at the time. This part of the system doesn't need the AC supply so it works only from batteries (27V starting power source in our case).

Pekne! Neco vic :-) (Nice! Some more :-))

#4291199 - 08/28/16 01:32 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Hi again all those interested in the Krug. So as promised, I started up the turbine generator. So far I have to control the valves manually since the control block is missing but I'm in a process of developing it's supplement. Also I managed to power up some instruments inside (yeah, almost in the exact way like it's in the sam sim:)) but unfortunatelly I didn't have time to properly try what's working and what isn't.... Also the antenna block isnt't connected at all. I'll try to bring some of the systems to life when we manage to acquire a diesel 400Hz generator which is quiter and much more fuel efficient... Check out a short video I made! https://youtu.be/XEh6Z8mzdHk

and some pictures here..



Last edited by Jarda1S32; 08/28/16 02:38 PM.
#4309305 - 11/05/16 06:12 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
PN79 Offline
Member
PN79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
Hello Hpasp and community,

In the manual for Krug there are information about missile types: 3M8, 3M8M1, 3M8M2 and 3M8M3. Does variant 3M8M exists too and with what capabilities?

#4309432 - 11/06/16 09:27 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Imho 3M8M1 = 3M8M

WarPact received the 3M8M2 and the 3M8M3 version.

Last edited by Hpasp; 11/06/16 09:29 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4309437 - 11/06/16 09:52 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
PN79 Offline
Member
PN79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 106
Thank you for explanation.

#4310522 - 11/09/16 04:33 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jarda1S32]  
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 737
Comrade_Hedgehog Offline
Member
Comrade_Hedgehog  Offline
Member

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 737
The Sticks, England.
Originally Posted By: Jarda1S32
Hi again all those interested in the Krug. So as promised, I started up the turbine generator. So far I have to control the valves manually since the control block is missing but I'm in a process of developing it's supplement. Also I managed to power up some instruments inside (yeah, almost in the exact way like it's in the sam sim:)) but unfortunatelly I didn't have time to properly try what's working and what isn't.... Also the antenna block isnt't connected at all. I'll try to bring some of the systems to life when we manage to acquire a diesel 400Hz generator which is quiter and much more fuel efficient... Check out a short video I made! https://youtu.be/XEh6Z8mzdHk

and some pictures here..




What would be cool is if you could wire it into samsim somehow.
I.E. play Samsim on your real Pat Hand. smile


Its not the bullet with your name on it you have to worry about.
But the one addressed:
"To Whom It May Concern"
#4310546 - 11/09/16 06:08 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Great one!
Soon you wouldn't need SAMSIM at all!
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4314019 - 11/21/16 06:29 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Actually there's a device (don't know the code by heart) which allows you to simulate the target signals for training purposes. We don't have it though. Another device was used on 2P24s to simulate rockets.

#4331616 - 01/26/17 10:34 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#4332403 - 01/28/17 05:09 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Nice picture thumbsup Where is it from?

#4347014 - 03/26/17 05:36 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Hi again. I have some offtopic here. smile We didn't have much time to work on our hobby during the winter but I still have some news. After a long time, we managed to acquire a power generator for Krug (and Kub). Actually two of them. The first is a 40kVA diesel generator, which is already working and the second one is a 30kVA rotary converter (electrical motor powered from the grid rotates 400Hz generator). So I'm almost ready to finally start the job... I'm especially excited about powering up the 2P24, because since its turbine isn't operational yet, I never had it powered..

Here're some pictures:

Diesel generator:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Rotary converter:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

By the way, if someone was near Prague, both Krug and Kub will be on display at Tankodrom Milovice on 29th of April. I'll start the turbine on request. biggrin

Last edited by Jarda1S32; 03/26/17 05:44 PM.
#4364535 - 06/17/17 09:43 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Hi, so I'm here again to report some progress.
Today I managed to turn on the rotary converter VPL-30 to power up some basic systems of both 1S32 and 2P24. Still waiting for a better power plug because now I'm limited with maximum power to let's say 15kW which isn't much but still it's interesting. You can take a look here how the VPL runs.
Basic power-up of 1S32 was a success, although many systems are out of order. Which I'm going to work on. Here's a short video of how it went. smile Didn't really have time to film but I can tell that the computer is in a pretty good shape. On the other end some referential voltages are missing so I'll have to go through the power blocks... Oh well. Also I have some pictures of the tubes glowing. :p

[Linked Image] [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

As for the 2P24, it was even more interesting. I was able to turn on the original amplidynes which were in fact powering the motors and moving the rocket platform. Although I made some mistakes which resulted in some jerky movement, I think it'll work. Next time I'm going to make a video showing how to power up the 2P24. :))

#4364617 - 06/18/17 02:14 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Photo - Col. Stoykov...

Attached Files пулт.jpglast pusk Shabla.jpg
#4366505 - 06/28/17 08:21 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Doesn't Col. Stoykov (or someone else for that matter) have some documentation for Krug? I'm desperately looking for schematics of 1S32. I have those for 2P24. Without it it's really hard and time consuming to move forward. That's why I got the 2P24 almost fully operational and 1S32 lies in the shadow...

#4366611 - 06/28/17 07:40 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jarda1S32]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jarda1S32
Doesn't Col. Stoykov (or someone else for that matter) have some documentation for Krug? I'm desperately looking for schematics of 1S32. I have those for 2P24. Without it it's really hard and time consuming to move forward. That's why I got the 2P24 almost fully operational and 1S32 lies in the shadow...



I will ask...

#4366707 - 06/29/17 09:09 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Thank you. I can offer some Czech documentation in return. Or an access to both 1S32 and 2P24. This offer applies for anyone here, if you happen to be near Prague.:)
Also I created this youtube channel for our Krug.

Last edited by Jarda1S32; 06/29/17 09:10 AM.
#4366710 - 06/29/17 10:09 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jarda1S32]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jarda1S32
Thank you. I can offer some Czech documentation in return. Or an access to both 1S32 and 2P24. This offer applies for anyone here, if you happen to be near Prague.:)
Also I created this youtube channel for our Krug.


BTW, do you have an FB account? (you or your Krug)?

#4366715 - 06/29/17 10:35 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Jarda1S32 Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Jarda1S32  Offline
Krug rules the world.:))
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 11
Yes, I do https://www.facebook.com/jarda.bursik

The Krug doesn't have its own facebook page so far.. It's a good idea though. biggrin

Last edited by Jarda1S32; 06/29/17 10:39 AM.
#4513106 - 03/27/20 09:15 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008

#4529662 - 07/12/20 04:45 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 22
Kub operator Offline
Junior Member
Kub operator  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 22
Hello!

I have a couple of questions...

Can a 3M8M Krug missile be launched ballisticaly with no guidance (lets say in case of emergency), like the Kub missile can?
Can a 3M8M missile be launched from 2P24M if the launch command does not execute from 1S32M?

Thanks in advance....

#4532574 - 08/04/20 03:52 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
The second question is probably not without 1S32 in any way, everything is interconnected... Why?

#4532607 - 08/04/20 07:29 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 22
Kub operator Offline
Junior Member
Kub operator  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Dec 2019
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
The second question is probably not without 1S32 in any way, everything is interconnected... Why?


It is interesting to me. I used to be, among other duties, commander of PU 2P25M2 in the Kub regiment. It is possible to launch a missile from PU if the command wont go through from SURN (Kub missile system).
So...the 1S32 commander presses "PUSK", (lets say the "PUSK" button is stuck or broken or....) and the command does not go through, can missile be launched from PU 2P24M?

Also. does anyone have a scheme or pictures or video from inside the PU 2P24M so that we can see the operator work place and operators command control deck?

Thanks in advance.... smile

#4532705 - 08/05/20 10:13 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Kub operator]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Kub operator
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
The second question is probably not without 1S32 in any way, everything is interconnected... Why?


It is interesting to me. I used to be, among other duties, commander of PU 2P25M2 in the Kub regiment. It is possible to launch a missile from PU if the command wont go through from SURN (Kub missile system).
So...the 1S32 commander presses "PUSK", (lets say the "PUSK" button is stuck or broken or....) and the command does not go through, can missile be launched from PU 2P24M?

Also. does anyone have a scheme or pictures or video from inside the PU 2P24M so that we can see the operator work place and operators command control deck?

Thanks in advance.... smile




It is logical to be in that way... Try to contact this guy - Jarda1S32, he could help!

#4540254 - 10/10/20 05:35 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Hpasp
Originally Posted by piston79
Is it nnormal, when the target is in full tracking and switch off the transmitter - to have on display killing zones and point of impact?


Yes, that is from the analogue computer. (used first time in the KRUG)

Originally Posted by piston79
Also, still when SNR is hit, the game terminated (that was reported as a bug by someone before...


That is, how it was designed.

If a KRUG SNR is hit, that is also terminal for its crew.
(You are sitting right below the antenna)
[Linked Image]





#4549538 - 12/23/20 04:35 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Strange behavior of the circle in the Vietnamese scenario: when capturing some aircraft with a given noise interference during their "dive"to the ground, the range scale goes to the right until it stops at a given range (the target is closed by interference), the bottom line is that the "dive" in height is displayed as a sharp departure into the Range...When hitting a target (with the same natural behavior, the target disappears)is this correct or not?( I know that the target parameters can be viewed via DHV) All this creates an incomprehensible situation with the defeat of the target)) Are there any people here who have played Vietnamese scripts on it? Sorry for google translate.

Last edited by Jammer5236; 12/23/20 04:46 PM.
#4549544 - 12/23/20 05:15 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Just if he dives sharply it should be displayed on the DHV only in height but not in range on K81-8 (the k81-8 range Indicator should remain unchanged at this moment IMHO just seems more logical: just like that, it's impossible to fly from 40 km range to 110 in 3 seconds)) unless there's a warp drive)))

#4550572 - 01/03/21 06:35 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
Just if he dives sharply it should be displayed on the DHV only in height but not in range on K81-8 (the k81-8 range Indicator should remain unchanged at this moment IMHO just seems more logical: just like that, it's impossible to fly from 40 km range to 110 in 3 seconds)) unless there's a warp drive)))



When the range is not known, the system calculated it by simple trigonometry. Thus if you put range/height at given elevation angle it would calculate it according that change....

#4550625 - 01/04/21 09:17 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Interesting... Okay thank you.

#4550689 - 01/04/21 07:16 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
Interesting... Okay thank you.


Just set the distance and height at expected tracks of the B052's..

It will be clear for you if you check the Tu-154 topic or just check how SA-2E T/T I-87V mode works..

#4551008 - 01/06/21 06:56 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Well, in general, it is so clear how it works... And another question: why when you turn on the " ПИ " mode after the launch of the rocket, the station switches to continuous illumination of the target? Although "ПИ" mode is enabled, shouldn't it light up periodically? (the accuracy drops accordingly, and the missile may not hit at all) is this how it should be? I apologize for being a little annoying, only this simulator, except for this forum, there is no one else to ask...

#4551012 - 01/06/21 07:37 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
Well, in general, it is so clear how it works... And another question: why when you turn on the " ПИ " mode after the launch of the rocket, the station switches to continuous illumination of the target? Although "ПИ" mode is enabled, shouldn't it light up periodically? (the accuracy drops accordingly, and the missile may not hit at all) is this how it should be? I apologize for being a little annoying, only this simulator, except for this forum, there is no one else to ask...



You're not annoying at all..
Those modes are working before missile starts... As in SA-2/3/8 after launch you need to transmit a steering commands to missile anyway.... So EMCON is gone and no need to blink....

Last edited by piston79; 01/06/21 07:37 PM.
#4551115 - 01/07/21 09:05 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
I thought that it is not necessary, thank you I will know

#4551274 - 01/07/21 09:48 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
I thought that it is not necessary, thank you I will know


Anytime... Still SA-4 and especially SA-8 and Shilka are not my favorite and sometimes I could not answer, but I'll do my best...

Sadly Hpasp is not writing here anymore....

#4552027 - 01/12/21 07:50 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
I thought that it is not necessary, thank you I will know


Did you managed to kill B-52 with SA-4B?

#4552081 - 01/13/21 08:44 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
It's hard)) But it's actually possible. yep

Attached Files
#4552083 - 01/13/21 08:51 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
It's hard to identify targets... EVERYTHING IS COVERED BY JAMMING!!)) Well, maybe there will be targets without jamming, but probably you will not have time to fire at them))))... mycomputer ))

#4552104 - 01/13/21 01:48 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
It's hard)) But it's actually possible. yep


Well, according to your AAR, you're pretty good.... You could share your work sequence if you like...

#4552235 - 01/14/21 12:19 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
No, I don't have time now, maybe someday)))

#4559613 - 03/12/21 04:43 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
A few more questions about "Круг":

1) stealth targets are visible as a dot yes from a distance (21-17 km) when tracked the target is visible, but it seems that the radar sees it, and the missile does not see it(I read the instructions, I know that the missile is controlled by commands from the SNR)it self-destructs, even if the target is visible and in the tracked (error?): as it approaches, it disappears, although it should not! rather the opposite...(there is nothing more effective than C-125..) IMHO...
2)noise jamming F-111... When the target is attacked, it is impossible to hit it... with their speed...(Libyan second scenario)
3)SOC shows noise jamming in the SM / DM range... When playing for the С-75МК \ M3, noise jamming occurs only in the SM-range (bug?)
when launching a missile according to the Libyan scenario on an SR-71 aircraft, the aircraft gains altitude when launching...(?) although the shooting was conducted without the transmitter turned on, it is not clear what the range is? (in the С-75, only the DM jamming is visible, here the target puts the noise jamming in two bands) or the height?
4)in some scenarios, it is impossible to shoot down anyone at all... When such complexes were included in the scenarios, were they tested on these scenarios?(I understand, of course, that there is no 100% chance of knocking everything)) Maybe I'm doing something wrong... are there any ways?))
5)In the Balkan scenarios, the rocket always goes to the "decoy"... Isn't it disposable? When tracking such a target, the range screen "flashes": both the target and the "decoy" are visible, it would seem that the range is set and the target is visible, but still the missile hits the "decoy"!
6) Some aircraft causing noise jamming are only visible when the transmitter is turned on. (Libyan and Balkan scenarios)

It's all about the "Круг", I don't know yet whether this is correct or not in relation to the "Круг". Thank you in advance
Sorry for the translation.... I hope that it will be clear...

Last edited by Jammer5236; 03/12/21 04:45 PM.
#4559696 - 03/13/21 06:29 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
A few more questions about "Круг":

1) stealth targets are visible as a dot yes from a distance (21-17 km) when tracked the target is visible, but it seems that the radar sees it, and the missile does not see it(I read the instructions, I know that the missile is controlled by commands from the SNR)it self-destructs, even if the target is visible and in the tracked (error?): as it approaches, it disappears, although it should not! rather the opposite...(there is nothing more effective than C-125..) IMHO...


which mission is that>?


Quote
2)noise jamming F-111... When the target is attacked, it is impossible to hit it... with their speed...(Libyan second scenario)


some AAR/3D AAR?

Quote
3)SOC shows noise jamming in the SM / DM range... When playing for the С-75МК \ M3, noise jamming occurs only in the SM-range (bug?)
when launching a missile according to the Libyan scenario on an SR-71 aircraft, the aircraft gains altitude when launching...(?) although the shooting was conducted without the transmitter turned on, it is not clear what the range is? (in the С-75, only the DM jamming is visible, here the target puts the noise jamming in two bands) or the height?


Because P-18 is in meter length wave band.... "Long track" is in decimeter length wave band.... SR-71 does not change altitude.... you just lost the range measurement, so the system starts calculate trigonometricaly the height of the target based on last known distance to it (before jamming)... Same as SA-2...


Quote
4)in some scenarios, it is impossible to shoot down anyone at all... When such complexes were included in the scenarios, were they tested on these scenarios?(I understand, of course, that there is no 100% chance of knocking everything)) Maybe I'm doing something wrong... are there any ways?))


Be more specific...


Quote

5)In the Balkan scenarios, the rocket always goes to the "decoy"... Isn't it disposable? When tracking such a target, the range screen "flashes": both the target and the "decoy" are visible, it would seem that the range is set and the target is visible, but still the missile hits the "decoy"!


Try to attack only targets in a head-on direction, thus the missile's radiofuse must be triggered by the real target.... I'll check it too, but not sure could I have time till Monday, as I need to travel now...

Quote

6) Some aircraft causing noise jamming are only visible when the transmitter is turned on. (Libyan and Balkan scenarios)


That's correct... Jammers only worked under enemy transmission, thus denying enemy of passive noise jamming tracking of the target (like in LB II)....



Last edited by piston79; 03/13/21 06:29 AM.
#4559704 - 03/13/21 08:59 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
1)ashuluk firing range,and first serbian scenario.
4)Vietnam scenarios:SR-71 bomb damage assessment one,two,
Lybia scenarios:SR-71 bomb damage assessment,F-111 strike(second scenario)
5,2)here is AAR only here and the Libyan scenario and Serbian, 3D AAR I attach for some reason I can not...
3,6)thank you for your answers.

Attached Files
#4559727 - 03/13/21 01:54 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
1)ashuluk firing range,and first serbian scenario.


Well, I never ever got a stealth with SA-4 in Serbia.... I'll try on Ashuluk
Quote


4)Vietnam scenarios:SR-71 bomb damage assessment one,two,
Lybia scenarios:SR-71 bomb damage assessment,F-111 strike(second scenario)



Well, have in mind, that success is depending about the position of your site. Also over Hanoi, SR-71 is in a turn, so your destruction zone is changing... My personal advice about Vietnam is to launch your missile slightly before point of impact got inside the destruction zone.... In Libya SR-71 didn't ever got near enough to be killed.... Have in mind that those a real situation, not an arcade game....

Cannot comment about F-111, gotta try it...

Quote

5,2)here is AAR only here and the Libyan scenario and Serbian, 3D AAR I attach for some reason I can not...


You could, if you change .gpx to .txt.... Or just upload them anywhere... like mediafire.com.


Quote
3,6)thank you for your answers.


Hpasp is much better in that... Hope I could help too...

#4559747 - 03/13/21 05:08 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
I understand that the scenarios are historical, that it is difficult(or even impossible) to shoot it down due to its high speed and jamming (Vietnam), or that it just touches the target area (Libya)... Okay, I'll try again....
https://www.mediafire.com/file/2k3ukox92riru3i/3DAAR-2021-03-13_13-43-58.gpx/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/rhsmn437poa9fyt/3DAAR-2021-03-13_21-21-08.gpx/file
Here (I accidentally erased the Libyan script, did it all over again)

#4559751 - 03/13/21 05:27 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
I understand that the scenarios are historical, that it is difficult(or even impossible) to shoot it down due to its high speed and jamming (Vietnam), or that it just touches the target area (Libya)... Okay, I'll try again....
https://www.mediafire.com/file/2k3ukox92riru3i/3DAAR-2021-03-13_13-43-58.gpx/file
https://www.mediafire.com/file/rhsmn437poa9fyt/3DAAR-2021-03-13_21-21-08.gpx/file
Here (I accidentally erased the Libyan script, did it all over again)



I see.... Well, maybe your radiofuse detonated prematurely against F-111 as it flew low.... Cannot say for sure...

About the AN/ALE-50, I think sometimes I did kill some F-16, but cannot be sure....

Checked Ashuluk - see the speed and height of the target - it iss too high and fast to catch it....

#4559895 - 03/14/21 09:23 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
1)Maybe... There are simply no other options: even with the external target designation of the F-111 visible at a minimum distance (due to its height), there was only one option left for launching the missile, to shoot after it through the T\T method.
2)Then I don't know either...
3)I used external target designation to detect it, in manual search it is not visible at all.

#4559984 - 03/14/21 07:16 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
13:45 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number one.

2K11 KRUG-M1


+++++++++++++++++
00:01:17, SNR ON AIR


00:02:09, Missile launched
Target distance: 92km
Target azimuth: 175°
Target elevation: 14°
Target altitude: 23.9km
Missile guidance method: 1/2 (Half Lead)


00:03:12, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu hit by SAM. (miss distance: 235m)

00:03:31, Missile launched
Target distance: 29km
Target azimuth: 138°
Target elevation: 54°
Target altitude: 23.9km
Missile guidance method: 1/2 (Half Lead)


Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 42sec

#4560052 - 03/15/21 09:15 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Cool.... I did not know that you can shoot at it and hit it through 1 \ 2, I always switched to T\T, "ПA" and switched the fuse to "Ш.П." and never hit it.... You have a sooo big miss... But I got even more)) In general, I wonder why this is so? The SNR does not know the range to the target, it must be set manually.... I tried to shoot according to your method: everything works out...

Attached Files
#4560053 - 03/15/21 09:40 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
In general, the earlier I fire the missile, the higher the chance of hitting the SR-71.... I see...

#4560060 - 03/15/21 11:12 AM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
In general, the earlier I fire the missile, the higher the chance of hitting the SR-71.... I see...



It must work with 3T also.... Just have in mind that when SR-71 came over Hanoi, it goes toward you when turning... (just watch the screen during engagement)...

#4560131 - 03/15/21 07:10 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
In general, the earlier I fire the missile, the higher the chance of hitting the SR-71.... I see...


13:45 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number one.

2K11 KRUG-M1


+++++++++++++++++
00:01:40, SNR ON AIR


00:02:09, Missile launched
Target distance: 93km
Target azimuth: 175°
Target elevation: 14°
Target altitude: 23.9km
Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)


00:03:12, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu hit by SAM. (miss distance: 144m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 1min 56sec

#4560622 - 03/19/21 05:28 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Yes it works....

Attached Files
#4572492 - 06/22/21 07:55 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Alien_MasterMynd Offline
Member
Alien_MasterMynd  Offline
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 634
Czech Republic
Originally Posted by piston79
13:45 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number one.

2K11 KRUG-M1


+++++++++++++++++
00:01:17, SNR ON AIR


00:02:09, Missile launched
Target distance: 92km
Target azimuth: 175°
Target elevation: 14°
Target altitude: 23.9km
Missile guidance method: 1/2 (Half Lead)


00:03:12, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu hit by SAM. (miss distance: 235m)

00:03:31, Missile launched
Target distance: 29km
Target azimuth: 138°
Target elevation: 54°
Target altitude: 23.9km
Missile guidance method: 1/2 (Half Lead)


Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 42sec


Nice result, I will also try :-)

#4582164 - 10/07/21 05:27 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
How many times have I tried to repeat, nothing comes out... The only thing is, if you change the range \ altitude, the probability of a near miss \ hit increases (140 m, 68 m....) into the decoy or even fly with the fuse on "Ш.П.".There is some trick with switching the transmitter (I did it this way) "АНТ."..... I feel like I'm on the right way.
So the question is removed)) thumbsup

Attached Files
Last edited by Jammer5236; 10/07/21 05:28 PM.
#4582180 - 10/07/21 07:58 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
How many times have I tried to repeat, nothing comes out... The only thing is, if you change the range \ altitude, the probability of a near miss \ hit increases (140 m, 68 m....) into the decoy or even fly with the fuse on "Ш.П.".There is some trick with switching the transmitter (I did it this way) "АНТ."..... I feel like I'm on the right way.
So the question is removed)) thumbsup


I do not get the point.... It is hard in OAF with any system...

#4583400 - 10/23/21 12:34 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
Jammer5236 Offline
Junior Member
Jammer5236  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Aug 2020
Posts: 29
With "Двина" in the simulator, this is done very simply: the target is usually closed by noise jamming, but there is a trick: after tracking for a few seconds, it is enough to turn on/off the emission, and the target with the decoy is visible on the indicator for a while, and then they are closed by noise jamming, but the range to them is already visible and, thus, you can set the range to the target continuously until it is hit by the first missile... But this does not happen with the "Круг".... although again, as I said, the range indicator is "flashing", and the target and the decoy are visible when the is turned on, but you always hit the decoy. Although you do about the same thing....

Last edited by Jammer5236; 10/23/21 12:37 PM.
#4583435 - 10/23/21 05:43 PM Re: 2K11-M1 KRUG-M1 (SA-4B Ganef) [Re: Jammer5236]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
piston79 Offline
Member
piston79  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,008
Originally Posted by Jammer5236
With "Двина" in the simulator, this is done very simply: the target is usually closed by noise jamming, but there is a trick: after tracking for a few seconds, it is enough to turn on/off the emission, and the target with the decoy is visible on the indicator for a while, and then they are closed by noise jamming, but the range to them is already visible and, thus, you can set the range to the target continuously until it is hit by the first missile... But this does not happen with the "Круг".... although again, as I said, the range indicator is "flashing", and the target and the decoy are visible when the is turned on, but you always hit the decoy. Although you do about the same thing....



I got it now...

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
Live Moon Landing: NOW
by F4UDash4. 02/22/24 10:46 PM
Excalibur
by PanzerMeyer. 02/22/24 07:29 PM
SimHQ Formula 1 Fantasy League
by DBond. 02/21/24 05:48 PM
Brand New, 26 Year Old, House for Sale
by F4UDash4. 02/18/24 11:52 AM
E Commerce Results Filtering
by F4UDash4. 02/17/24 11:43 AM
MS to end W10 support in Oct. 2025
by Red2112. 02/15/24 09:44 PM
Your top 5 RPG's of all time?
by PanzerMeyer. 02/15/24 01:13 PM
Cold War Posters
by F4UDash4. 02/15/24 01:43 AM
Some twisted humor
by oldgrognard. 02/14/24 10:05 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0