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#3607239 - 07/15/12 09:14 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Vympel]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Vympel
Harm can remember the (approximate) position of an emitter, so pilots can still launch at your position after you stop emitting. But this is not very accurate.


This is into the real life, but I believe it is not simulated on that way into the SIM...

Last edited by piston79; 07/15/12 09:29 AM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3607244 - 07/15/12 09:37 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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I understand that HARM can attack: activated SNR radar, SOC radar and transmitted command link to missile

- at the start of the mission only SOC radar is activated --- though no attacks against it occur
- attacks against SNR and missile command link seems OK

- however after SNR radar and missile command link is off (so only SOC radar is online as at the start) fighters still launches new missiles (without effect) and unlike other SAMs where fighters do not launch missiles in such situation

#3607260 - 07/15/12 10:57 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: PN79]  
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Originally Posted By: PN79
I understand that HARM can attack: activated SNR radar, SOC radar and transmitted command link to missile

- at the start of the mission only SOC radar is activated --- though no attacks against it occur
- attacks against SNR and missile command link seems OK

- however after SNR radar and missile command link is off (so only SOC radar is online as at the start) fighters still launches new missiles (without effect) and unlike other SAMs where fighters do not launch missiles in such situation


I checked the code for obvious bugs, but could not found anything.
Could you share video + 3DAAR?

Still might be a bug...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3607280 - 07/15/12 12:45 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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PN79 Offline
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Note:
After launching first missile against F/A-18 I switched antenna to dummy load (radar was switched off anyway) and I closed command link to the missile (both on panel K94-2M1). I also turned off datalink to SOC and launchers. Anyway fighters continued to launch HARMs against me.


AAR:

Click to reveal..


2:00am 15th of April, 1986.
Operation El-Dorado Canyon raid against Benghazi.

Targets:
Jamahiriyah barracks - 6 A-6E Intruder (from the CV-66 USS America)
Benghazi AFB - 6 A-6E Intruder (from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea)

Supporting force:
8 SEAD F/A-18A Hornet (VMFA-314 Black Knights, VMFA-323 Death Rattlers from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea)
2 SEAD A-7E Corsair-II (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks from the CV-66 USS America)
6 CAP F/A-18A Hornet (VFA-131 Wildcats, VFA-132 Privateers from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea)
3 ECM EA-6B Prowler (VAQ-135 Rooks, VMAQ-2 Playboys from both carriers)
1 SIGINT EA-3B Skywarrior (VQ-2 Sandeman from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea)
2 AWACS E-2C Hawkeye (VAW-127 Seabats from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea)

2K11 KRUG-M1


00:01:03, Missile launched
Target distance: 33km
Target azimuth: 308°
Target elevation: 3°
Target altitude: 2km
Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)


00:01:13, F/A-18A Hornet No.3, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:01:36, Missile exploded
F/A-18A Hornet No.3, VMFA-314 Black Knights hit by SAM. (miss distance: 209m)

00:01:59, F/A-18A Hornet No.4, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:02:24, F/A-18A Hornet No.1, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:02:59, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


00:03:26, F/A-18A Hornet No.3, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 2


00:03:29, F/A-18A Hornet No.4, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 2


00:03:32, F/A-18A Hornet No.1, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 2


00:03:46, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 2


00:03:59, F/A-18A Hornet No.3, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 3


00:04:03, F/A-18A Hornet No.4, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 3


00:04:07, F/A-18A Hornet No.1, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 3


00:04:12, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 3

00:04:15, A-6E Intruder No.1 (from the CV-66 USS America) bombed Jamahiriyah barracks.
00:04:16, A-6E Intruder No.1 (from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea) bombed Benghazi AFB.

00:04:20, F/A-18A Hornet No.3, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 4


00:04:24, F/A-18A Hornet No.4, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 4


00:04:29, F/A-18A Hornet No.1, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 4


00:04:33, A-7E Corsair-II No.1, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 4

00:05:01, A-6E Intruder No.2 (from the CV-66 USS America) bombed Jamahiriyah barracks.
00:05:02, A-6E Intruder No.2 (from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea) bombed Benghazi AFB.
00:05:47, A-6E Intruder No.3 (from the CV-66 USS America) bombed Jamahiriyah barracks.
00:05:48, A-6E Intruder No.3 (from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea) bombed Benghazi AFB.

00:06:20, F/A-18A Hornet No.2, VMFA-314 Black Knights launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1

00:06:33, A-6E Intruder No.4 (from the CV-66 USS America) bombed Jamahiriyah barracks.
00:06:34, A-6E Intruder No.4 (from the CV-43 USS Coral Sea) bombed Benghazi AFB.

00:06:41, A-7E Corsair-II No.2, VA-46 Clansmen launched AGM-88 HARM missile No. 1


Total, SNR On Air Time: 3sec




3D AAR - copy to computer and change ".jpg" to ".gpx"




EDIT: It seems to me that you shoud experience such behaviour of Krug in Libya too. Or what is your experience with Krug in Libya scenario (to all players)???

EDIT2: video (this AARs and video is for the same mission):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7jUL11Fr-w&feature=youtu.be

Last edited by PN79; 07/15/12 01:32 PM.
#3607651 - 07/16/12 01:24 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hi Hpasp and everyone! I'm new to this forum. I tried to register a couple of times before, but had terrible luck doing it. Anyway, I've been enjoying SAM Simulator and I love it!

But I have a couple of questions.

If I fire an SA-3 in ground attack mode, it arcs to the left side of the display like this (
Wouldn't that mean the missile was flying under ground, since left is low, right is high? I'll admit it's possible the real system displayed it like this, but I thought I'd check.

Is that supposed to happen?

----

Second question. If on the SA-5/S-200 I launch missiles using "GSN mode: Acquire target during flight", with a received signal strength of around 20db for example, then check on the KI-234V panel for missile flight status, the missiles will say they don't have a lock, which makes sense since they were launched with less than a 25db signal.

BUT! As soon as the signal strength meter hits 25db, all missiles instantly lock on.

But doesn't that meter give signal strength at the ground station and not the missile? Also in the manual you say the missiles need 34db to lock on during flight. So shouldn't each individual missile lock on when the missile itself receives a 34db signal, instead of all missiles locking on when the ground station receives 25db?

It just seems weird to me, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. I don't think "Acquire target during flight" mode is even mentioned in the manual, so maybe I'm not understanding how it works.

Anyway, it's a great game. Keep up the awesome work!

#3607716 - 07/16/12 04:16 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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There are two V polete modes. one is plain old V polete, where the missile locks on at 25 db, and V polete ang. velocity <0m/s, used for receding targets. Because their signal strength is much weaker, this modes sets the missile to lock on at 34db. In short, if you had the switch on "V polete" second from the right, yes, that should have happened. That leads to another question for mr. hpasp! I've tried experimenting with V polete modes to extend my range, but I notice that it can only lock on if the target is close enough so that the missile can lock on only a few seconds after launch, and if this is not acheived, then the missile, according to 3DAAR, simply flies up into space. 1, is there something I'm missing here, or 2, is that what the missile is designed to do and there is a limit to how well "V Polete" works? It would be nice if we could have a chart describing how many seconds before the missile is "Lost forever," se I could maybe plug those numbers to equations to generate good V polete launching ranges that work.

Last edited by jazjar; 07/16/12 04:18 AM.
#3607728 - 07/16/12 04:48 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: jazjar]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: jazjar
There are two V polete modes. one is plain old V polete, where the missile locks on at 25 db, and V polete ang. velocity <0m/s, used for receding targets. Because their signal strength is much weaker, this modes sets the missile to lock on at 34db. In short, if you had the switch on "V polete" second from the right, yes, that should have happened. That leads to another question for mr. hpasp! I've tried experimenting with V polete modes to extend my range, but I notice that it can only lock on if the target is close enough so that the missile can lock on only a few seconds after launch, and if this is not acheived, then the missile, according to 3DAAR, simply flies up into space. 1, is there something I'm missing here, or 2, is that what the missile is designed to do and there is a limit to how well "V Polete" works? It would be nice if we could have a chart describing how many seconds before the missile is "Lost forever," se I could maybe plug those numbers to equations to generate good V polete launching ranges that work.


I think there are two variants - 6 or 12 seconds after launch... Must check into the documents...

#3607734 - 07/16/12 05:44 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Well, the 25db vs 34db thing is interesting, but wasn't the main point of my post.

Here's a picture I made to explain better.



The top picture is just before I'm receiving 25db. I have six missiles in flight, and all of the missiles say they can't see a target. That's what the six lines mean ,,|,|,|,|,|,|,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The bottom picture is three seconds later. I'm now at 25db, and all the missiles suddenly can see the target at the exact same instant.

But that doesn't make sense to me, since each missile is at a different distance. Each missile should be receiving a different strength signal. The missiles closest to the target should be receiving a stronger signal than the missiles furthest away.

Shouldn't a missile lock on when it receives 25db, and not when my ground based radar receives 25db? Is the sim wrong, or am I understanding something wrong?

#3607813 - 07/16/12 11:02 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: jazjar]  
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piston79 Offline
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Checked - on the third second when "V POLETE", on the sixth second when "V<0". yep

#3607873 - 07/16/12 02:20 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Video with Czech 2K12 in action. Notice upgraded control panels and also the radar is completely solid state - no vacuum tubes at all.


#3608544 - 07/17/12 03:54 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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So lets try to clarify the V-880 5V28 missiles GSN mode settings.

(from right to left)

DO STARTA (acquire target with the GSN before launch)
POISK V VKL (track target in speed and direction angles)
This is the normal (optimal) mode of the GSN.
The RPC should receive 25dB target signal BEFORE launch.

POISK V VIKL (track target only in direction angles)
This mode is used against noise jamming targets, where the reflected Doppler signal cannot be velocity tracked by the GSN.
The RPC should receive 25dB target signal BEFORE launch.

B POLETE (acquire target with the GSN during flight)
This mode has a special usage. Several sites are surrounded by tall forests.

While the RPC on the elevated platform can track a low altitude incoming target, the missile on the ground cannot lock on it, due the surrounding forest.
So this mode is used against low altitude, incoming targets with 25dB RPC received signal strenght, when the GSN cannot achieve lock due surrounding obstacles.

B POLETE Vcr=<0
This mode is used against incoming targets with lower than 100m/s speed, or receding targets.
You need to have 34dB received signal strength this case.

dizzy

Non of these modes are designed to extend the missile range.

Last edited by Hpasp; 07/17/12 04:44 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3608549 - 07/17/12 04:06 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Video with Czech 2K12 in action. Notice upgraded control panels and also the radar is completely solid state - no vacuum tubes at all.

Click to reveal..


Great video!

If I've ever would do a KUB simulator, than I would certainly include a picture from this practice...


thumbsup

Last edited by Hpasp; 07/17/12 04:07 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3608561 - 07/17/12 04:25 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: bump]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: bump
Hi Hpasp and everyone! I'm new to this forum. I tried to register a couple of times before, but had terrible luck doing it. Anyway, I've been enjoying SAM Simulator and I love it!

If I fire an SA-3 in ground attack mode, it arcs to the left side of the display like this (
Wouldn't that mean the missile was flying under ground, since left is low, right is high? I'll admit it's possible the real system displayed it like this, but I thought I'd check.

Is that supposed to happen?


The Neva is using two coordinate systems.

Epsilon/Beta (elevation/azimuth) is used during target acquisition.

During this mode, both indicators are showing Epsilon/Distance.

During target tracking, Neva switches into F1/F2 angles, that are 45 degree rotated from vertical.

During this mode, the left indicator shows F1/Distance[3km], while the right one F2/Distance[40/80km].

This is why the missile should fly like )( on the two indicators.

You can also observe, why the illuminated part of the display has offset.

thumbsup


Last edited by Hpasp; 07/17/12 05:28 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3608591 - 07/17/12 05:12 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
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I-RAN
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Video with Czech 2K12 in action. Notice upgraded control panels and also the radar is completely solid state - no vacuum tubes at all.

Click to reveal..


Great video!

If I've ever would do a KUB simulator, than I would certainly include a picture from this practice...


thumbsup


hummmm smile i think develop sa-6A for sam simulator can be a big gift for Christmas santa from mr.hpasp to sam simulator users aroundthetree


of course i hope CT

Last edited by milang; 07/17/12 05:59 PM.
#3608719 - 07/17/12 08:24 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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piston79  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
So lets try to clarify the V-880 5V28 missiles GSN mode settings.


"V POLETE" - Due to wider receiving zone of GSN antena, when RPN is tracking low epsilon angle targets (<2-3 degrees), the GSN antena was under heavy dependance of the ground clutters. Also "V POLETE" could be used only in MHI transmition mode, but this is not very appropriate against low targets and group targets (need FKM mode).

#3608892 - 07/18/12 12:13 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Jan 2011
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Redcoalition Offline
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Redcoalition  Offline
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Brazil
Mr. Hpasp,
Firstly, sorry for not being able to give you the translation I had promised, especially because I have offered myself to do it and haven't given you feedbacks so far. It's halfway and I believe I can finish it this month's vacation.

But I'm having a problem with your software's latest version. Even with the DEM off I have a huge frame-drop when I go to the Z-screen, both on the SA-2F and SA-2E (I haven't tried any of the others so far). I didn't had a similar problem with any of the previous versions of your sim.

Any ideas about what could be the problem? Thank you

#3609301 - 07/18/12 05:54 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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amalahama Offline
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hahaha, hpasp you are a bad guy with such teasers! Anyway I have a small request for future versions. Some screens, specially 11 and 13'' used in ultrabooks, don't fit your resolution requirements (they round normally 1366x768). It would be nice if you adopt some sort of scroll or a resizable window for resolutions below 1280x1024. Your program can run perfectly in those laptops and it's a pity I can't scare the guy sat next to me in the plane shooting down Tu-154s with SA-5s biggrin

Regards!

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Video with Czech 2K12 in action. Notice upgraded control panels and also the radar is completely solid state - no vacuum tubes at all.

Click to reveal..


Great video!

If I've ever would do a KUB simulator, than I would certainly include a picture from this practice...


thumbsup

#3609340 - 07/18/12 06:55 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: amalahama]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: amalahama
hahaha, hpasp you are a bad guy with such teasers! Anyway I have a small request for future versions. Some screens, specially 11 and 13'' used in ultrabooks, don't fit your resolution requirements (they round normally 1366x768). It would be nice if you adopt some sort of scroll or a resizable window for resolutions below 1280x1024. Your program can run perfectly in those laptops and it's a pity I can't scare the guy sat next to me in the plane shooting down Tu-154s with SA-5s biggrin

Regards!


Please do not misunderstand it. Currently I'm not working on KUB simulator.
I'm implementing OAF scenarios with B-2, F-15C, F-16CJ, F-16CG.
Also I will rework the Vega missile GSN signal receiver code, and try to troubleshoot the KRUG HARM rain bug.

As REDCOALITION correctly recognized, the manual creation/translation is huge work.
Usually during introduction of a new SAM system 50% of my time goes to coding, and 50% for writing and translating manual. (English/Hungarian)
If I have some free time, than I do some pre-writing of manuals with publicly available information, for several systems.
I done it for ZSU-23-4 Shilka, KUB (SA-6A), S-300PMU (SA-10B), Nike, Patriot.

ZSU-23-4 Shilka




MIM-14 Improved Nike Hercules


MIM-104 Patriot




S-300PMU



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3609363 - 07/18/12 07:37 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 914
farokh Offline
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I-RAN
holy god mad

i prefer take A big deep breath for relaxation!

this news is very unormal! boom

between 2010 and latest 2011 we've got 5 systems! sa-2dvina - sa-2 volhov - sa-3 goa - sa-4 ganef - sa-5 gammon but!

at latest year we have only fixed bug and more senario! seehearspeak

i mean delay between create next system after one passed year! from sa-2dvina is normal time delay? confused

Last edited by milang; 07/18/12 09:04 PM.
#3609421 - 07/18/12 09:12 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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Lieste Online sigh
Senior Member
Lieste  Online Sigh
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,723
So... ask for your money back...



(...realise that this is all free...)

...and STFU.

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