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#3600223 - 07/01/12 08:11 PM Flight leaving me behind  
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,083
Aladar Offline
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Aladar  Offline
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Fremont, CA
This has been a problem for a good long while now. I take off, I have throttle to the wall, I try and follow the flight, but they absolutely leave me in the dust.

I love and adore this game, I really do. But this is really really disheartening when I'm trying to enjoy the game.

Are there any plans to adjust the flights speed to be anything less than full throttle? If they at least flew at 80 percent throttle it would give me an extra 20 percent to catch up with.

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#3600232 - 07/01/12 08:23 PM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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Trooper117 Offline
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Is this with all aeroplanes?
Are you remembering to adjust mixture for those aircraft that have that feature?
A good while back I had the same problem, but I was forgetting mixture settings.. also, if you climb to steeply to gain the same altitude you will loose even more speed and you never catch up.. frown
Remember as well that your AI squadmates fly perfectly, and don't have the same constraints as you and I.. frustrating I know.

#3600252 - 07/01/12 08:55 PM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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gwalch Offline
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Also try taking on less fuel.
Default loads for most missions are way too much.

#3600280 - 07/01/12 09:56 PM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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TheBlackPenguin Offline
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Let the AI fly your plane for a bit just after take-off, you'll see the mixture change, so keep an eye on that.

#3600302 - 07/01/12 10:43 PM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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Dart Offline
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Dart  Offline
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Standard flight sim stuff - the AI always uses best mixture and trim.

I have a default message for the IL-2 series:

Message>Flight>Flight Leader>Fly Off And Leave Me Behind.

Part of it is mission design and build; often the first waypoint is set to the maximum speed for the aircraft instead of something more reasonable.

The solution is to try and match speed, not altitude - they're at the sweet spot for best climb over the longest distance (Vy) which is the highest speed while most pilots fly best climb over shortest distance (Vx) which is the lowest.


The opinions of this poster are largely based on facts and portray a possible version of the actual events.

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#3600489 - 07/02/12 07:31 AM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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Phazon Offline
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Yep as the others said correct mixture settings is important depending on the plane you are using, and the AI is at its best when flying between waypoints since it will have near perfect trim so if your flying isn't the best they will leave you behind.

The easiest way to keep up is to cut down on some fuel to give you a bit of a speed boost. As gwalch said sometimes the default fuel setting is too much for the mission you are going to fly. With a recent career mission I flew with the RE8 I was able to cut at least 25% and still have a good 30-45mins worth of fuel left.

Also be mindful of what weapon mods or loadouts you are equipping. Some bombloads weigh more than others, and weapon mods usually add additional weight and drag to the aircraft. The AI currently does not use weapon mods at the moment, so if you do use them you will have to compensate by again reducing the fuel load.

It would be nice if the AI flight leader was a little more intelligent and slowed down for you, but its not a huge issue.


"Rock crushes scissors ... but paper covers rock, and scissors cuts paper! Kif, we have a conundrum." - Zapp Brannigan
#3600551 - 07/02/12 11:38 AM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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Georgio Offline
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Georgio  Offline
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I just take off, hit autopilot until the first waypoint, then take over again for the ingress.
Weird thing is that even using the auto-mixture setting doesn't allow you to match their speed.

#3600708 - 07/02/12 04:43 PM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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Aladar Offline
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Aladar  Offline
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Fremont, CA
Thanks for the info guys. I'll check it out. Though I think it still leaves the underlying problem unaddressed, and I hope it is addressed later.

I use auto mixture, and I still can't follow them. Not really interested in using autopilot either. I like being in control of the aircraft from takeoff to landing, and for me personally, autopilot cheapens the experience for me (not judging those who do use it).

I'll try cutting back on fuel, and messing with manual mixture. Again, I just hope this is addressed sometime.

Out of curiosity, does Pat Wilson's campaign have this issue?

#3601880 - 07/04/12 08:12 PM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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Mogster Offline
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I don't think the mission designers can win with this, the AI can just flys in the most efficient way, more efficiently than most sim pilots. In my SE5a career I'm normally able to out pace my wingies, I could argue why do they fly so slowly, lumbering along at half throttle.

I think the mission designer can set speeds by waypoint.


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#3603156 - 07/07/12 08:26 PM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Aladar]  
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arjisme Offline
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I agree it would be nice if the missions would set the AI speeds at less than max.

And Trooper is right: you can't point your nose at your flight leader (or any airplane in your flight in front of and above you) and expect to keep up. I usually take a full tank of fuel or at least add on a little more than the default load (nice to have in case of a fuel leak!), I fly with manual mixture control and I can keep up with my flight fine. I usually can't gain on them though, so I try to take off promptly and stay close from the outset. If I fall a little behind I will cut a corner at a waypoint to close the gap. The alternative is to stay lower than them to increase your speed so you are at least near them.

#3603237 - 07/08/12 12:06 AM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Dart]  
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RoFfan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dart
Standard flight sim stuff - the AI always uses best mixture and trim.


I really doubt that. If you turn on auto-mixture you'll see that it does a terrible job of finding the optimal setting. Also, there is no trim in Rise of Flight.

People used a similar explanation for Il-2, but it's not quite accurate. If you watch the Il-2 auto-pilot climb, you'll see that the controls are frequently cross-coordinated. In Il-2 the AI could always outclimb you because it had no overheat limits and, more importantly, it did not use the same flight model as the human player.

In Rise of Flight the AI does use the same flight model. The best way not to get left behind is to know the optimal climb speed for your aircraft. As it was pointed out above, pitching up even more will cause you to fall further behind.

#3603270 - 07/08/12 01:51 AM Re: Flight leaving me behind [Re: Dart]  
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Ace_Pilto Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dart
Standard flight sim stuff - the AI always uses best mixture and trim.

I have a default message for the IL-2 series:

Message>Flight>Flight Leader>Fly Off And Leave Me Behind.


Ha!

The AI in RoF do seem to be the direct antecedents of Il-2's 'Hysterical Hans and the Full Throttle Three'.

The problem is though, that if you lower the cruise and climb for the AI leader, the other AI catch up.

"But that's a good thing!" I hear you say... Nope, it results in some rather extreme formation flying techniques being displayed, usually with an option for anyone observing these techniques from the ground to take home their very own piece of airplane after it has fluttered to earth after the inevitable collisions are over.

If you've flown RoF then you'll know that the last place you want to be in the sky is anywhere near an AI aircraft, the AI stink, in every respect except for performing tight turns down to zero feet and slamming themselves into the ground before you can get a bead on them.

Edit: Oh, and hanging from their props like helicopters for those telling potshots at your fuel tank and gunning down entire squadrons of scouts from flexible gun positions, they can do that without breaking an artificial sweat.

Last edited by JimmyBlonde; 07/08/12 01:55 AM.

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