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#3577958 - 05/23/12 11:56 AM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: HeinKill]
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 67
BodyBag
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 67
Denmark
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I'd say they definitely have added a game to the sim. Yes, the translations are awkward sometimes, but their translator does it in his spare time, and its a small scale operation, so I can live with it. Wish I could speak German, it would be better in its native language. Nej bare middlertidlig fanget i Danmark  Poor you,- get out while you can... Cheers, Are you kidding - Denmark in summer is the business - sun shining, 26C, fridge full of Carls Classic, had the years' third BBQ last night (I measure the non winter months by the number of BBQs achieved), daylight until 1030pm, my local football team is top of the Superliga...the list goes on. Ask me again in October when that cold wind starts blowing again...but then it isn't long until the Turborg beer elves arrive with the free Christmas beers. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_i4szIPzhpXg/Sy...ige_800x600.jpgWarning, forumites offended by images of young Danish women dressed as an elf do not click on above link!The reason I mention all this is that my Cliffs of Dover productivity rate is going to dive dramatically in coming months... H I WAS kidding  I myself is sitting outside in my garden in Roskilde right now with champagne (a bit of class there...) in the sun (25C) and getting slightly wasted before my first BBQ this year. My team is of course F.C. København (No. 2 in Superliga) after living many years in Copenhagen. The winter don't bother me anymore,- coming November I jump on a plane and hit the tropics until April...  Cheers,
"In politics, stupidity is not a handicap"
- Napoleon Bonaparte -
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#3712396 - 01/05/13 09:16 AM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: Veteran66]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
Nimits
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United States of America
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Channel Battles 1940 Demo this time only in german
Fighter Aces! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas Demo and full version available in english Anyone have any idea if Channel Battles will make it to English? That is the one I personally am most interested in . . .
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#3713431 - 01/07/13 02:35 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: DocW]
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 257
Itkovian
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Member
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Posts: 257
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I've been playing WvsD again lately, and I'm having a blast. I'm up to mission 21 of the 11 Sqn campaign, and its nice to have such nicely crafted campaigns. I personally try to fly them as "realistically" as possible... which includes not really caring about mission objectives. I just follow the flight lead, fly where I'm supposed to, and fight what I can see. And I don't hesitate to RTB if things are rough or I can't find anyone anymore. But I couldn't are less if I did kill the required 2 Do17s, or if those Defiants got mauled, so long as I did my bit. Reality did not have hard mission requirements, and it's great WvsD allows you to proceed to the next mission even if you fail. Campaign has some great moments, some of which I think were unscripted. In one of the last missions, I was flying from Croydon to Hawkinge (after Croydon got bombed during takeoff), and my flight had gotten separated from the rest of the squadron. I tried to rejoin and could see some of their exploits as they tore apart a flight of 4 bombers (Dorniers, I think... I never saw the squadron but spotted a bomber diving into the ground), then decided to turn directly to Hawkinge. I'd tried to tangle with some 109s near Croydon but they RTBed and were beyond my reach (flying Hurricanes makes stern chases mostly pointless against Messerschmitts), so I was resigned for a boring flight to my new aerodrome. So here we were flying, when out of the blue tracer go by and a flight of Me110s flew THROUGH our formation, a splendid bounce. Fortunately nobody got killed, I might have taken a few hits but nothing significant... but it scared the living daylights out of me. We turned the table on them (they were ME110s, after all), but it taught me not to rest on my laurels even when I'm not following the rest of the squadron.  One thing I do wonder (as my post below), is how to get my boost cut off working on my Hurricane. It's as if I'm not using 100 octane fuel yet, or something. Any help would be appreciated there. Thank you.
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#3725728 - 01/27/13 01:08 AM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: DocW]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
Nimits
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After fooling around with trying to improve the English in some of the briefings . . . I have to say, I do not very much appreciate the . . . shall we say . . . revisionist history they use as an end of campaign brieing for the British campaigns. Claiming that Churchill's only reason for refusing peace with Hitler was his desire to destroy the German economy, and therefor implying that the Battle of Britain was little more than a short-sighted exercise in peronsal imperialism on the part of the British PM, is a rather one sided (and historically questionable) claim, both in the context of 1940 and what we know today. I am curious how widespread that view is in Germany (and continental Europe) today. At the very least, considering the German campaigns tend to end with a cheery "we'll meet again" kind of messege, I find this anti-British rhetoric rather in bad taste. Churchill himself said it very clearly in the summer 1940:
Those who think, we fight this war to fight nazism, are naive. Our intention is to smash germanys economic power.
Wars are never fought for altruistic motives. They always have a egoistic intent. The aim is power and territories, never the people.
None of the nations fighting in WWII is innocent. Not even the victors.
And so was the "Battle of Britain" also not what it was stylized for. For Great Britain it wasn't the fight to survive, and for Germany it wasn't the fight for the invasion of England.
Churchill wanted to fight this war for his own personal power to the bitter end, at all costs. And it did cost! It did cost Great-Britain it's empire. He stood as loosing victor, who did gain his primary war goal, the destruction of Germany, but ruined the homeland entrusted to him. Great-Britain never recovered from this ruin.
In 1939 it was possible to start the war, but not to stop it. He only could take the bull by its horns, in a conflict, lost before it started. And the same was with the Battle of Britain. Continious changing aims of the battle, no strategic concept and a Luftwaffe not suited for this kind of war were the largest obstacles. But the truly biggest obstacle was, that there was no plan for the continuation of the war. So this battle was a improvisation, which was by propagandistic means blown up to a possible decisive battle.
The battle was decided, as soviet troops at 28.06.1940 invaded Romania and occupied large parts of it. From this day on the german high command knew, that the direction of the war would change, if they wanted to survive. Since without the romanian oil the war against England couldn't be fought also. 150 km divided from this day on G.K. Schukow from the decision in favour of the Soviet-union. But he overlooked the chance.
The german chief of staff Franz Halder, as Hitler himself, saw the danger and acted. All planning for a possible invasion of England were waste paper and obsolete with that.
Concluding it is to ascertain, that for England in 1940 was no danger of a invasion. Churchill wanted to get the USA into his boat, and that he did get. Because the USA supported Great-Britain after the Battle of Britain with enormous quantities of weapons wares, planes and ships.
Last edited by Nimits; 01/27/13 01:12 AM.
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#3726005 - 01/27/13 06:49 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: DocW]
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 68
Charlie Chap
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 68
England
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Churchill was not in power at the start of WWII, Chamberlain was, so he was incapable of starting anything, he was a Democratically elected career politician and so did not have the kind of remit that gave him the power to do any of the above. He had no authority to have any kind of grand imperialist agenda.
Maybe I am naive but I believe that people really believed that Nazism was a very good reason for fighting.
Mein Kampf was publicly available in England (my Grandmother read it before WWII...) we didn't burn books, so details like its totalitarian nature ,ideas of racial superiority, inherent anti-semitism, ideas about eugenics, euthanasia of the mentally ill and compulsory sterilization of undesirable minorities were fully known about even in the 30's and that was revolting to her and most others.
(as I sincerely hope it still is to most people today).
It is impossible to believe in Nazism if you believe in Liberal Democracy. They are mutually incompatible ideologies that cannot co-exist. If you have to fight a sick morality, you have to physically destroy economic power and you may have to do unpalatable things to do that. The later follows from the former, not the other way around.
This was a clash of ideologies, not of individuals with huge ego's.
I agree with you Nimitz, not good.
Last edited by Charlie Chap; 01/27/13 07:19 PM.
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#3726316 - 01/28/13 12:41 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: DocW]
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Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 2,148
Georgio
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Member
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Posts: 2,148
Hockley, UK
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One thing to bear in mind. The Russians embraced tank tactics after WWI and conceived lightning combined operations as a counter to the trench stalemate. Because of the Treaty of Versailles Germany was forbidden to develop anything let alone combined ops, so tankers were sent to Russia under the guise of holidays but in reality to learn how to use tanks effectively. It is obvious that Hitler & Stalin had a deal going to carve up Europe which is why Stalin was so shocked when operation Barbarossa started. He obviously thought that Hitler would honour the 1939 non-agression pact, whereas if he'd looked at what Chamberlain brought back then he would have realised it wasn't worth the paper it was printed on. I also seem to remember that Hitler wanted the invasion of Russia to start on the same date as Napoleon's ill-fated campaign in order to better him and be in Moscow before Christmas. If Hitler had done his homework then he would have realised that logistics don't change and an over stretched supply line is still the easiest way to lose a war... 
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#3726370 - 01/28/13 03:13 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: Nimits]
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 82
naz
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 82
Sydney, Australia
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After fooling around with trying to improve the English in some of the briefings . . . I have to say, I do not very much appreciate the . . . shall we say . . . revisionist history they use as an end of campaign brieing for the British campaigns. Claiming that Churchill's only reason for refusing peace with Hitler was his desire to destroy the German economy, and therefor implying that the Battle of Britain was little more than a short-sighted exercise in peronsal imperialism on the part of the British PM, is a rather one sided (and historically questionable) claim, both in the context of 1940 and what we know today. I am curious how widespread that view is in Germany (and continental Europe) today.
At the very least, considering the German campaigns tend to end with a cheery "we'll meet again" kind of messege, I find this anti-British rhetoric rather in bad taste.
[ Have to say I agree with you mate. As much as I enjoy the desastersoft campaigns I must admit to some uneasiness whilst reading parts of the documents provided with it. Don't plan on getting into any form of discussion here though as such Internet discussions on the topic will never end well, I suspect. S!
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#3726559 - 01/28/13 08:39 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: naz]
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,118
Brigstock
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 3,118
London, England
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Have to say I agree with you mate. As much as I enjoy the desastersoft campaigns I must admit to some uneasiness whilst reading parts of the documents provided with it. Don't plan on getting into any form of discussion here though as such Internet discussions on the topic will never end well, I suspect.
S!
You're quite right Naz, these discussions never end well. I was quite shocked at what I read as the end narrative for the campaign.
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#3726769 - 01/29/13 04:06 AM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: Keoma]
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 831
rootango
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Posts: 831
everywhere
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I believe a feeling of uneasiness is more than justified. Desastersoft's political views lean heavily to the far right.That's why they promote a revisonist version of history. But i must insist that their views don't represent the mainstream thinking in Germany. how do you know that ? its the first i have heard of it, are there any other indications ? i agree that what an earlier poster quoted from some of the disastersoft missions text is rather disturbing, its not only revisionist but also deliberately misleading (stating for ex that germany's attack on russia was only because russia invaded Romania) if we have some neo-fascist group creating pc ww2 flightsim software and using that medium to promote their idea's, then it should be more publicized in flightsim circles so people know about it. there might also be some issues here under german laws, which is quite strict on this type on nonsense
Be advised, we got zips in the wire
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#3727098 - 01/29/13 05:00 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: DocW]
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 68
Charlie Chap
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 68
England
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if we have some neo-fascist group creating pc ww2 flightsim software and using that medium to promote their idea's, then it should be more publicized in flightsim circles so people know about it Yes it should. At least that it is a possibility...people are quite capable of making their own value judgements though (fortunately most in this community do know quite a bit about history for the most part). Maybe post that briefing around in a few other places and draw people's attention to it as Nimitz did though ?. Probably more effective than strong words, accusations or warnings. (I realized that after my own little rant earlier...)
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#3727395 - 01/29/13 11:56 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: DocW]
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 5,945
Nimits
Hotshot
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Posts: 5,945
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I'm torn. On one hand, the Desatersoft add-ons (and Heinkill's rave reviews of them) were about my only reason for buying CloD, and I generally do not allow the politics of a company to overtly influence my buying decisions. Moreover, as an American, I am generally supportive of Voss's right to express his political views and still be able to conduct business. However, the exception to my policy occurs when a company starts to infiltrate their politics into their actual products and business decisions. I am not sure if Deastersoft has crossed that line, but like I said in the first post, the historical "information" they provide in debriefings and in their manual is, at the least, one-sided and in bad taste. Plus, as a history buff and graduate student, I find it to be simply bad history. I very much wish they had left all that sort of thing out of their otherwise good product. Just one other item (from the manual, and the part that bugs me the most): The one side [Germany] was lacking the means and the will for victory, the other side [Britain] the good sense for peace. This may sound cynical, but peace would have been possible. And in this case, the decision was not Hitler's. In 1939 Hitler possessed the ability to begin the war. But in 1940 he did not possess the ability to end it. Churchill did!
Last edited by Nimits; 01/30/13 12:29 AM.
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#3727547 - 01/30/13 07:03 AM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: DocW]
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,010
PV1
sometime mudslinger
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sometime mudslinger
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 4,010
Ladner, Wet Coast, Canada
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Such politics! I tried to see what this GK Schukow comment was about. Discovered this is GK Zhukov in usual english rendering. The german version of Wikipedia says Zhukov was ordered to occupy Bessarabia and northern Bukovina. The english version, which has, one can tell by the phrasing and viewpoint, been written by a russian, says Zhukov reclaimed Bessarabia for Russia... Well, I still can't figure out what 150km is talking about, but I have to conclude he is trying to suggest the russians blocked german access to romanian oil. I don't recall hearing about that, at least until afterHitler attacked Russia. This Wiki article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovinadiscusses the incident in great detail, and makes no mention whatsoever of Germany having any problems, in public or private, with the russian actions, which were fully expected due to the 1939 secret agreement with the USSR. Then there is the matter of the supposed quote from Churchill. Does anyone know what that refers to?
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#3727635 - 01/30/13 01:50 PM
Re: Fliegerasse! Helmut Wick vs. J. C. Dundas arrived today
[Re: PV1]
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 785
Blue 5
Member
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Member
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Posts: 785
London
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the other side [Britain] the good sense for peace That is a deeply, deeply worrying perspective. If this is Desastersoft's political philosophy and that 'good sense' would have been British peace with the Third Reich then I am a little surprised more fuss has not been made of this in Germany. Am certainly not buying anything from the company.
Flying online (when I get the chance) as EAF19 Marsh
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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