#3570058 - 05/09/12 05:50 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Architrav]
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Architrav
Junior Member
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Junior Member
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Austria
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I ordered "Die Fla-Raketentruppen der Luftverteidigung der DDR: Geschichte und Geschichten" (The SAM-troops of the air defense of the GDR - history and stories) Given the English and Russian technical terms thrown around in this thread, I already wondered what the equivalent in my native German might be. And I've finished reading it. The book didn't have much technical information - it was clearly written for people who already had an idea about SAM systems. Aside of the history of the FlaRaketentruppen in East Germany it most of the book is filled by anecdotes from air defense soldiers. To be honest, many of them are tinted by nostalgia but they also made me laugh and gave an interesting view of the minds of soldiers int a warsaw pact state. Maybe an interesting tidbit I got from it is that the East German soldiers don't have a high opinion of the western "Nike" system. True, the range was impressive and all other technical abilities were at the height of the time. While it still took two to three hours to get a Dvina or Volhov "Raketenkomplex" on the road, the Nike required an incredible amount of space to be deployed and was essentially an immobile system that would have limited its tactical use in an actual war severely. There's a story in there about a soviet air defense unit claiming to be able to tear down their S-75 in half an hour which greatly impressed the Germans, but they didn't mention how long it takes takes to set up that (presumably) mess afterwards. Hm, what they did with those? Scrap them? The single S-300 "Raketenkomplex" (read: Battalion) they had was considered "sensitive equipment" and given back to Russia. All the other eastbloc SAM systems were sold or scrapped. The East German soldiers who wrote chapters for the book are still quite hurt about that. All their training instantly became worthless, just as they had got the S-300 (SA-10 Grumble) that introduced truly mobile air defense tactics.
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#3570065 - 05/09/12 05:59 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Architrav]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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I ordered "Die Fla-Raketentruppen der Luftverteidigung der DDR: Geschichte und Geschichten" (The SAM-troops of the air defense of the GDR - history and stories) Given the English and Russian technical terms thrown around in this thread, I already wondered what the equivalent in my native German might be. And I've finished reading it. The book didn't have much technical information - it was clearly written for people who already had an idea about SAM systems. Aside of the history of the FlaRaketentruppen in East Germany it most of the book is filled by anecdotes from air defense soldiers. To be honest, many of them are tinted by nostalgia but they also made me laugh and gave an interesting view of the minds of soldiers int a warsaw pact state. Maybe an interesting tidbit I got from it is that the East German soldiers don't have a high opinion of the western "Nike" system. True, the range was impressive and all other technical abilities were at the height of the time. While it still took two to three hours to get a Dvina or Volhov "Raketenkomplex" on the road, the Nike required an incredible amount of space to be deployed and was essentially an immobile system that would have limited its tactical use in an actual war severely. There's a story in there about a soviet air defense unit claiming to be able to tear down their S-75 in half an hour which greatly impressed the Germans, but they didn't mention how long it takes takes to set up that (presumably) mess afterwards. Just never learn the truth of how long to take to tear down a system by Zoltan Dani's unit in real life threatening situation... ... or in Vietnam. Hm, what they did with those? Scrap them? The single S-300 "Raketenkomplex" (read: Battalion) they had was considered "sensitive equipment" and given back to Russia. All the other eastbloc SAM systems were sold or scrapped. The East German soldiers who wrote chapters for the book are still quite hurt about that. All their training instantly became worthless, just as they had got the S-300 (SA-10 Grumble) that introduced truly mobile air defense tactics. Just mind the coordinates...
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#3570073 - 05/09/12 06:15 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Architrav
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Austria
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Just never learn the truth of how long to take to tear down a system by Zoltan Dani's unit in real life threatening situation... ... or in Vietnam.
That struck me as a bit long, too, but you know how the Germans are when it comes to following regulations. At least you could be sure to find every last cable in its spot.
Last edited by Architrav; 05/09/12 06:16 PM.
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#3570078 - 05/09/12 06:26 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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Member
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Just mind the coordinates... From where they buy/take this??? Bet it is an ex-USSR republic...
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#3570081 - 05/09/12 06:35 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Architrav
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 38
Austria
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I had to look it up on Wikipedia, apparently Croatia's S-300 "vanished" in 2004.
Last edited by Architrav; 05/09/12 06:35 PM.
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#3570096 - 05/09/12 07:01 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Architrav]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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I had to look it up on Wikipedia, apparently Croatia's S-300 "vanished" in 2004. Croatia never received S-300PMU system. (They always faced the Russian supported Serbs.) S-300PMU was exported: S-300PMU (SA-10B)1989; 1 battery GDR, 1 battery Bulgaria (You can find this unit on guard, east of Sofia, beside Klisura) 1990; 1 battery Czechoslovakia (Currently with Slovakia, beside Aleksince) 1993; 4 battery China (3 batteries around Beijing, 1 battery beside Jiangxi) S-300PMU-1 (SA-20A)1995/96; 4 batteries China (3 batteries around Sanghai, 1 battery beside Beijing) 1999; 2 batteries Greece (Cyprus; beside Ineia and Prodromos) You know, that we Hungarians are quite jealous about these units... ... two Hungarian batteries were trained, sites were allocated, just the equipment was never arrived.
Last edited by Hpasp; 05/09/12 07:43 PM.
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#3570133 - 05/09/12 08:09 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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Maybe an interesting tidbit I got from it is that the East German soldiers don't have a high opinion of the western "Nike" system. True, the range was impressive and all other technical abilities were at the height of the time. I think Nike is not good over, say 80 km (as other command guided missiles are...). It's a bit better (because of his HUGE warhead), than "Volkhov" or "Krug", but generaly not so great. I like his missile profile (a bit similar to "VEGA", and his non-liquid fueled missiles. It is an huge advantage against S-200 and S-2. looock at this picture !! dear pistoon79 i shot 2 missiles with sa-2E to asuluk training f104 !!!! looock az movment line missile!!! there is no Maneuvering in this picture just directly moving to hit.... i see when real sa-2 fired... i think some where in sa-2e not simulating very corectly no one of sa-2 missile goes in directly line Look it from the point of impact to the SAM site, like Hpasp showed, it could be different view.
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#3570175 - 05/09/12 09:30 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 120
montieris
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baltics
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Croatia never received S-300PMU system.
But they did acquire some S-300 TEL's and few missiles from somewhere? Or it was just one of those inflatable S-300's? If tech was transfered to US, how much could they learn from it. Sa-8 in RAF Spadeadam EW range at UK; http://www.flickr.com/photos/imshafted/718413688/in/photostream/Also they did put SA-8 in Waddington air show. Maybe i should write to them and ask premission to travel and walk in to take "few" pictures. Then i could finish my SA-8.
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#3570376 - 05/10/12 07:44 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
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I-RAN
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perhaps mr HP at this moment have mostly time for develop nike mm14... maybe change his mind for creat another system, and Nike missiles project for sam system is deactive ... I hop built another system i think mr.hp must change get infromation about nike mm14c ... to change get information about hawk missle system... i think this is so easy than nike missile ... of course i guess! but im not sure 100% this sam system is too famous thesis nike and older in this age.. i guess evry hawk system in most countries is deacticated!!! i hope change hp idea for develope hawk system
Last edited by milang; 05/10/12 07:47 AM.
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#3570402 - 05/10/12 10:03 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
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I-RAN
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i think all of countries has hawk system... now going to replace with patriot system and hawk is deactivated !!! i think now mr.hp can driving to some where has a hawk system and take a photo and get manuality info abouy hawk system!!! right? i think is better than driving 2000 kilometers for take photo from nike...
Last edited by milang; 05/10/12 10:06 AM.
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#3570403 - 05/10/12 10:06 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
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think mr.hp must change get infromation about nike mm14c ... to change get information about hawk missle system... i think this is so easy than nike missile ... of course i guess! but im not sure 100% this sam system is too famous thesis nike and older in this age.. i guess evry hawk system in most countries is deacticated!!! i hope change hp idea for develope hawk system Of course. Please send some high quality photo and the manuals for "HAWK", and it could be added in the SIM. Also provide some Fire Control Officers with expirience with "HAWK", and I believe Hpasp could do it... O, allmost forgot - some detailed map and info (from both sides) of any engagements from Iran-Iraq war or another conflict with participation of the "HAWK" could be welcome for new historic scenarios. think all of countries has hawk system... now going to replace with patriot system and hawk is deactivated !!! i think now mr.hp can driving to some where has a hawk system and take a photo and get manuality info abouy hawk system!!! right? i think is better than driving 2000 kilometers for take photo from nike... Could you suggest any country, that could provide free acces to "HAWK" and is near Hungary...?
Last edited by piston79; 05/10/12 10:10 AM. Reason: HAWK location
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#3570430 - 05/10/12 11:22 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: farokh]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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and this picture is new ... show sa-2 missile... now i understand iran use sa-2 but i dont know what type of system in use sa-2E or sa-2 F This is Dvina missile. (radio proximity fuse is different at the Volhov)
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#3570460 - 05/10/12 12:44 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
farokh
farokh
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farokh
Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 916
I-RAN
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mr.hp i have idea for sam simulator... each program for not boring for self user... always use update program version your updating is good.. but very long time passed to next version is published!!! evry thing is goood but this one is not good one normal user can leran sa-2E at only on week as a professional sam officer but many time pased and u do not create any new system!!!! i remember u published sa-5 in 2011 now we are become half at 2012 without new system!!!! i have idead.... if u cant access to any system.. i mean sam sim user only can work with sa-2 sa-3 4 and 5 . ok ok doesnt matter... but we need update !!! for example: sa-2 f and sa2 E m75-m3 op and sa-3 have a optical lense!!! but we user simulator cant work with object .. because this object not published for optical tracking!!! i belive it if u want decide to develope otical tracking u have to use graphical and this simulator going to 3d program with optical tracking until user can see aircraft when fly !!! this object is good for tracking target withot active SNR and radiation missile dont come and cant destroy us!! i think this object is realy god reflection for user sam but i belive for create this object u have to so hard work on this program br milang
Last edited by milang; 05/10/12 01:11 PM.
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CD WOFF
by Britisheh. 03/28/24 08:05 PM
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