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#3565932 - 05/02/12 08:53 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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That SR-71 thing is REALLY FAST :-), I've tried maximum shooting distance.

AAR:
Click to reveal..
1967.
SR-71 Operation Tallin.

S-200VE Vega-E


00:10:39, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 191km
Target azimuth: 51
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 900m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 20,2dB


00:10:44, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 186km
Target azimuth: 51
Target elevation: 6
Target angular speed: 899m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target during flight
Received signal strength: 20,9dB


00:11:39, Missile launched from launcher-5
Target distance: 137km
Target azimuth: 54
Target elevation: 9
Target angular speed: 901m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 27,2dB


00:11:44, Missile launched from launcher-6
Target distance: 132km
Target azimuth: 54
Target elevation: 9
Target angular speed: 900m/s (3,2 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 27,8dB


00:12:42, Missile launched from launcher-3
Target distance: 81km
Target azimuth: 53
Target elevation: 16
Target angular speed: 869m/s (3,1 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 34,4dB


00:12:44, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 12m)

00:12:46, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 21m)

00:12:47, Missile launched from launcher-4
Target distance: 77km
Target azimuth: 53
Target elevation: 17
Target angular speed: 762m/s (2,7 Mach)
Target altitude: 24km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Vcr<0
Received signal strength: 35dB


00:13:35, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)

00:13:39, Missile exploded
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 6m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 7min 48sec


3DAAR

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3565955 - 05/02/12 10:20 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Czech Republic
I forgot to introduce myself, as I mentioned before I come from the Czech Republic. I am very interested in military technology, especially aircraft and accompanied radar and weapon technology and SAM systems. I studied measurement and instrumentation technology at Czech technical university.
My uncle when he was in active duty was a Lt. Col. at AFB Caslav (he took care of MiG's - 21, 23, 29 and L's - 29 and 39). Now there is my cousin and he takes care mainly of L-159's and I think he has also something to do with JA-39's. He gave me a preflight red tape (don't know its correct name, it is such a bright red ribbon with Remove before flight text) from AIM-9 which shot down a test target at training in Sweden :-)

Here you can see Czech military parade from 2008. Military 2008

It was the biggest (and I think the only one) after 1989 and at this time also the last. It is sad to see we have almost nothing :-(
But what you can expect from a Slovak minister of defense who gave our only S-300 to Slovakia, from a strongly pacifistic former president and today's minister of defense who never was in duty (not even in the basic one). Mig-29's we changed in a ratio of about 1:1 to Polish helicopters. What else to say? I think there is no more to say....

Tank day in a military historical museum at Lesany in 2007 (note the Merkava tank, we were and I think we still are the only foreign country which has this tank except of Israel and personnel of the museum may not show interior to anyone).
Tanks

And a few more pictures from the museum itself (note especially "puskovaju ustanovku" :-) with a training 5V28 missile, and you will notice a few more :-)) There is also a Tu-143 unmanned reconnaisance aircraft.
Military museum

#3565966 - 05/02/12 11:10 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Czech Republic
And I owe the last thing - what happened to Dobris S-200 site. About in the half od 90's S-200 was completely sold to some country like Libya or Iran and instead of it S-75 complexes were moved there. They were about 2000 replaced by S-125 and a few years later, the base was abandoned.
Fate of S-200 site at Brno was similar, only it was operational a bit longer.

#3566048 - 05/02/12 01:35 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
I'm trying to complete the two remaining EDC situations soon...

8 S-125M Neva (SA-3B) systems
4 S-75M Volhov (SA-2E) systems

vs

24 F-111F "Aardvark" bomber attacking 3 targets at Tripoli (18 primary + 6 spares)
5 EF-111A "Raven" ECM (4 primary + 1 spare)
6 A-7E Corsair-II SEAD (VA-46 Clansmen, VA-72 Blue Hawks)
1 EA-6B Prowler ECM (VMAQ-2 Playboys)
1 EA-3B Skywarrior SIGINT (VQ-2 Sandeman)
4 F-14A Tomcat CAP (VF-33 Starfighters, VF-102 Diamondbacks)
2 E-2C Hawkeye AWACS (VAW-123 Screwtops)

... or ...

1 SR-71
(The only real world scenario, where Volhov was fired against the HABU)

cowboy


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3566150 - 05/02/12 04:51 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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... or ...

1 SR-71
(The only real world scenario, where Volhov was fired against the HABU)





It seems they didn't have enough time to aquire and track the target on a proper way (target was at 43 km when missiles were launched, instead at least 60 km as it should be).

#3566213 - 05/02/12 06:35 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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Lieste Online sigh
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Note that the apparent 'difference' in height is only to provide separation between the two flight paths to reduce confusion about what refers to each. Think of them 'side by side' with a small amount of "parameter" in an isometric projection, so on an inclined plane similar to that seen in the drawing of the 'site'.

#3566290 - 05/02/12 08:21 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Posts: 1,154
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Arafo, Canary Islands, Spain
Hpasp, Eagle Dynamic move to launch SDK with your near DCS:World, a core to DCS series. A future 3rd Party aircraft coming to the east, the DCS:Mig-21bis make by a Hungarian comrade. Other future addon has Combinet forces, simulate ground forces and vehicles. You can contact whit ED to a future DCS:Sa-3?. Georgian forces has equipped with them and simulate track one target and launch two missiles.

Last edited by Silver_Dragon; 05/02/12 08:23 PM.

More News to the Front
#3566519 - 05/03/12 04:41 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Lieste]  
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piston79 Offline
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Note that the apparent 'difference' in height is only to provide separation between the two flight paths to reduce confusion about what refers to each. Think of them 'side by side' with a small amount of "parameter" in an isometric projection, so on an inclined plane similar to that seen in the drawing of the 'site'.

Those are two flights, one of the 15-th and one on the 16-th of April. The funniest part is that I CANNOT find the original whole document, from which I cut off that picture... (Dumb arse - that's me!)
Still, got this one - jamming areas from SR-71, as determent by russians and vietnamesses:

#3566546 - 05/03/12 07:50 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
Note that the apparent 'difference' in height is only to provide separation between the two flight paths to reduce confusion about what refers to each. Think of them 'side by side' with a small amount of "parameter" in an isometric projection, so on an inclined plane similar to that seen in the drawing of the 'site'.

Those are two flights, one of the 15-th and one on the 16-th of April. The funniest part is that I CANNOT find the original whole document, from which I cut off that picture... (Dumb arse - that's me!)
Still, got this one - jamming areas from SR-71, as determent by russians and vietnamesses:
Click to reveal..




here:
http://narod.ru/disk/11803446001/%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F%2086.djvu.html

This is nice pic.
Can you share the whole doc with me?
I'm thinking of utilizing this jammer layout data in the sim...
smile

Last edited by Hpasp; 05/03/12 07:51 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3566550 - 05/03/12 08:39 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 914
farokh Offline
farokh
farokh  Offline
farokh
Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 914
I-RAN
hey ... guys ... did u test asuluk with sa-4 3m8m3??? this missile is very maneuverability than sa-2 missile's and sa-3 missile's

when im hit one EA 6 with sa-4 with the last type of 3m8 missile ... and drag my result to 3daaar... i seen a very very amazing view of 3m8M3 maneuverability than sa- 2 and sa 3 missiles!!!!

pleas try this to know what i talking about !!!!



















Last edited by milang; 05/03/12 08:42 AM.
#3566561 - 05/03/12 10:17 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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Lieste Online sigh
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piston are you sure about that?? Without seeing what the text says, (I don't have time to sit and figure out Cyrillic script and then work the dictionary - printed I can 'read' but I've always struggled with hand-writing)... the image shows the 'first target' acquired too late, with three possible missile paths - the "last" fired breaks up due to over-g to track (or is 'lost' from guidance and self-destructs - the other two have insufficient energy to both follow the changing lead as the target passes overhead, and to reach altitude fast enough and miss.

The second flight path seems to be a direct hit and kill ~ while this might be what they'd like to have happened on the 16th I remain less than entirely convinced... more likely is this is a demonstration that the missile would fly directly to the impact point (ie is capable) if fired from further out.

Of course, I'll take it all back if that isn't what is written, or there really was a seriously damaged/killed Habu on the second flight.

But to me it smacks of AAR and lessons learnt, rather than two AAR.

#3566563 - 05/03/12 10:26 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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farokh Offline
farokh
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farokh
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I-RAN
hi guys.... i found a 3DAAAR bug .... looock az this picture... i use sa-4 ganef in first senario in cairo ...~

the 3 missile shot and 2 missiles going to under ground and get up from earth
pilot



Last edited by milang; 05/03/12 10:28 AM.
#3566629 - 05/03/12 01:19 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Have someone already shot down something in a Prairie fire? :-)

#3566676 - 05/03/12 02:15 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Alien_MasterMynd Offline
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Got him (U-2) :-)

Click to reveal..
08:46 1st of May 1960
CIA Operation Grand Slam.

SA-75M Dvina


00:02:41, V-750VU 11DU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 32km
Target azimuth: 216
Target elevation: 38
Target altitude: 20,2km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


00:03:21, Missile exploded on Channel-1
U-2C Article-360 piloted by Francis Gary Powers killed by SAM. (miss distance: 30m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 3min 39sec


3DAAR (click to download)

#3566743 - 05/03/12 04:04 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: farokh]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: milang
hi guys.... i found a 3DAAAR bug .... looock az this picture... i use sa-4 ganef in first senario in cairo ...~

the 3 missile shot and 2 missiles going to under ground and get up from earth
pilot

Click to reveal..



It is a bug, the fix will be in the next version.
thumbsup

(missile-1/3 hit the ground)


Last edited by Hpasp; 05/03/12 04:53 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3566786 - 05/03/12 05:12 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 95
CooLDoG Offline
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Posts: 95
My best hit on the U2 is 2m miss distance.

#3566828 - 05/03/12 06:11 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Alien_MasterMynd]  
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Posts: 105
PN79 Offline
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Posts: 105
Originally Posted By: Alien_MasterMynd
Have someone already shot down something in a Prairie fire? :-)


F-14 only - discussed some pages ago

#3566846 - 05/03/12 06:43 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Hi,
Dear Hpasp,thanks for the tip, I've lost some .djvu files due to PC failure, only .jpg survived (exported eatlier)...
Here some for you!
Check here:

http://narod.ru/disk/25543658000/%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B1%2075-2.djvu.html

and here also:

&#1041;&#1086;&#1077;&#1...amp;#1042;.djvu

- page 95, 250 to 253 also... In fact, the whole document is PRICELESS....


piston are you sure about that?? Without seeing what the text says, (I don't have time to sit and figure out Cyrillic script and then work the dictionary - printed I can 'read' but I've always struggled with hand-writing)... the image shows the 'first target' acquired too late, with three possible missile paths - the "last" fired breaks up due to over-g to track (or is 'lost' from guidance and self-destructs - the other two have insufficient energy to both follow the changing lead as the target passes overhead, and to reach altitude fast enough and miss.

The second flight path seems to be a direct hit and kill ~ while this might be what they'd like to have happened on the 16th I remain less than entirely convinced... more likely is this is a demonstration that the missile would fly directly to the impact point (ie is capable) if fired from further out.

Of course, I'll take it all back if that isn't what is written, or there really was a seriously damaged/killed Habu on the second flight.

But to me it smacks of AAR and lessons learnt, rather than two AAR.


Dear Lieste,

The document said only that they maded 2 firings (no specification how many missiles they used) described like "unefective" due to "unsuficient level of crew training" and "bad timing in firing against the target". I am a bit confused too, but seems it's a lesson learned. The SR-71 symbol which is on 70+ km from the SNR is taged as "Neccesary distance to target in the moment of firing"; the other SR-71 symbol is tagged as "Achieved distance to target in the moment of firing".... screwy
Anyway, I believe they shoot too late....

#3566856 - 05/03/12 06:50 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Oct 2008
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Lieste Online sigh
Senior Member
Lieste  Online Sigh
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,727
Yes the missiles were fired according to the first path (the one that looks higher). They failed to come close to intercepting because they needed to manoeuvre too aggressively. The diagram compares the actual shooting conditions with those that *might* have achieved success, at least the missile having sufficient energy to intercept the target. That the apparent altitude differs in not intended - this is a fake-perspective used to separate the two conditions for the training of the crews.

Also the exact parameters where the missile won't guide are probably not specifically those - they look too regular to have any definite relation to any aero characteristics, and are probably 'safe' rules of thumb.

#3566863 - 05/03/12 06:58 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Same graph, from the other side...


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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