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#3592332 - 06/15/12 07:10 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: Skoop]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Skoop

I think the DCS world will be great with combined arms. You can't get more dynamic than having the entire battlefield populated by human players giving orders to all the forces. If you Don't play it doesn't bother me, I'm sure plenty will. No sim has jtacs directing you to targets like dcs, how is that dull and not immersive? Have you actually flown the dcs a-10?
Many of the sims you mentioned are more randomly boring and repetitive missions than truly dynamic. If you need some career mode to make a sim good for you then cool but I like the realism produced by dcs. That in it's self is immersive.


Yes, I did play A-10 and yes I find it boring (Static campaign have a boring efect on me!) and NO I don't think that ANY OF the campaign in the sims I mentioned are anywhere repetitive since I can play the same campaigns several times in those sims and I always have a diferent experience a thing that NOBODY can have with any DCS campaigns! Perhaps the meaning of the word "repetitive" is for you diferent from it's real meaning rolleyes
And yes, for me a sim MUST HAVE an offline career mode and preferably a Co-op mode. A sim that doesn't mode at least have some sort of offline career mode is NO SIM for me!!
This makes me wonder why are you here? It's clear that you don't value dynamic campaigns, offline and/or co-op campaigns/careers which curiously are the features that are highlighted with most in COMBAT HELO. Do you remember that this is the COMBAT HELO forum and not the DCS ones, right?

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#3592343 - 06/15/12 07:24 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: komemiute]  
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Originally Posted By: komemiute
[quote=Skoop]
This Ricnunes! Or do we have to try to word it differently again?
REALLY can't you see it? I'm torn between thinking you are trolling OR there's a speech incongruence between us...


Like I said to Skoop, you do realize that this is the COMBAT HELO forum and not the DCS ones, right? Being said that the only incongruent one is you - This sim was made with the prime objective of reviving the 90's sims gameplay with it's dynamic campaigns and co-op playable campaigns and this is what I WANT for a sim! Being said this, I think you are much more closer to being a troll than I.
Lets get this straight, if I was posting this in the DCS sim you could perhaps have a slight amount of reason despite this being my oppinion and NO oppinion should be considered trolling since oppinions will always difer, no matter what! But NO, I'm posting why I think that the COMBAT HELO features are great and these should never be lost to DCS features (which are almost completly opposed to the Combat Helo features!) and it's really wierd, "funny" or perhaps even ridiculous seeing someone accusing another one of trolling when the "accused person" only defended Combat Helo and it's major dynamic campaign feature IN THE COMBAT HELO FORUM ITSELF!! rolleyes

#3592455 - 06/15/12 10:09 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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I'm appalled.

Happy for you.


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#3592574 - 06/16/12 04:11 AM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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It's pretty clear Ricnunes isn't interested in online multiplayer like DCS Combined Arms. Neither am I. In all honesty, DCS is about as far removed from a 90's type sim you can get, the gameplay of which Combat Helo aims to resurrect. So saying the CH team should release the AH-64 as a module for DCS completely misses the point of what Combat Helo is about.

#3592659 - 06/16/12 11:54 AM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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I'm actually convinced that people skipping Online MP only do it because they're either not properly into a proper Co-op community (like SimHQ- these guys host some SERIOUS TACTICAL gaminig. I'm impressed, day after day...) or maybe simply afraid of not being "pro" enough (which is a shame 'cause you only get good by doing).

Still, I REALLY LOVE CH, I REALLY LOVE taking my small part in developing it and can't wait to have it... biggrin


Click to reveal..
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum

"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice

"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster

"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
#3592715 - 06/16/12 02:34 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: Evil Flower]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Evil Flower
It's pretty clear Ricnunes isn't interested in online multiplayer like DCS Combined Arms. Neither am I. In all honesty, DCS is about as far removed from a 90's type sim you can get, the gameplay of which Combat Helo aims to resurrect. So saying the CH team should release the AH-64 as a module for DCS completely misses the point of what Combat Helo is about.


Yes, that's exactly what I mean! I think you resumed what I feel in this regards in a much better way that I did, thanks Evil Flower.

Actually the only online multiplayer mode that I play and like is Co-op and the reason is very simple: CO-OP is exactly the same thing as SINGLE PLAYER with the only diference being that instead of having AI wingmen/friendlies only (Single player) you also have other humans together with AIs as wingmen/friendlies (Co-op). And even so, I don't play Co-op as much as single player because I have a quite busy personal life (as well as professional) and multiplayer modes such as Co-op doesn't have the "Pause" which I often require when playing computer games.

#3592732 - 06/16/12 02:53 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: komemiute]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: komemiute
I'm actually convinced that people skipping Online MP only do it because they're either not properly into a proper Co-op community (like SimHQ- these guys host some SERIOUS TACTICAL gaminig. I'm impressed, day after day...) or maybe simply afraid of not being "pro" enough (which is a shame 'cause you only get good by doing).


Well I could also argue that people that play Online MP Team versus Team are people that don't have a personal life (and therefore have lots of "spare time") and feel frustrated by it and the only way that they can have a personal life and to release their personal frustration is by "killing someone" (virtually) over the internet! rolleyes
Anyway both the arguments that I posted just above AND YOURS are just plain ridiculous since in the end prefering to play single player/co-op or TvT MP is just a matter of personal taste, just like some people like red, other like blue and others like green, etc... and this doesn't mean that whoever likes red is more professional/serious/etc... than for example who likes blue!
I guess your post clearly shows that you simply don't have any respect by oppinions which are diferent than yours... Well, who's the "troll" now??

I also find odd that you claim that serious co-op players should always like Online MP TvT modes since in reality the Co-op modes are much more similar to Single player than they are to Online MP TvT modes (despite Co-op and TvT modes being MP online modes).


Quote:

Still, I REALLY LOVE CH, I REALLY LOVE taking my small part in developing it and can't wait to have it... biggrin


Another very strange quote! Why would you like a game that will only or basically be played by people that in your oppinion skips "Online MP only because they're either not properly into a proper Co-op community or maybe simply afraid of not being "pro" enough"?? You contradict yourself too much, really!

#3592793 - 06/16/12 05:21 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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Everybody, can we please get back to discussing Combat Helo? I understand that due to the slowdown of the development, news/updates are slowing down as well; but let's please not use these threads as a bashing contest to pass the time.


Afterburners are for wussies...hang around the battlefield and dodge tracers like a man.
#3592864 - 06/16/12 08:19 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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komemiute Offline
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rofl

By the way, I'm prepping a new Illustration for CH! smile
Should be nice!

Last edited by komemiute; 06/16/12 08:20 PM.

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"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum

"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice

"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster

"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
#3593838 - 06/18/12 08:27 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ricnunes]  
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Skoop Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: Skoop

I think the DCS world will be great with combined arms. You can't get more dynamic than having the entire battlefield populated by human players giving orders to all the forces. If you Don't play it doesn't bother me, I'm sure plenty will. No sim has jtacs directing you to targets like dcs, how is that dull and not immersive? Have you actually flown the dcs a-10?
Many of the sims you mentioned are more randomly boring and repetitive missions than truly dynamic. If you need some career mode to make a sim good for you then cool but I like the realism produced by dcs. That in it's self is immersive.


Yes, I did play A-10 and yes I find it boring (Static campaign have a boring efect on me!) and NO I don't think that ANY OF the campaign in the sims I mentioned are anywhere repetitive since I can play the same campaigns several times in those sims and I always have a diferent experience a thing that NOBODY can have with any DCS campaigns! Perhaps the meaning of the word "repetitive" is for you diferent from it's real meaning rolleyes
And yes, for me a sim MUST HAVE an offline career mode and preferably a Co-op mode. A sim that doesn't mode at least have some sort of offline career mode is NO SIM for me!!
This makes me wonder why are you here? It's clear that you don't value dynamic campaigns, offline and/or co-op campaigns/careers which curiously are the features that are highlighted with most in COMBAT HELO. Do you remember that this is the COMBAT HELO forum and not the DCS ones, right?


Ric,
I get what you are saying about dynamic campaigns, I like them too. I really hope CH delivers all they have promised and proves me wrong.

In the mean time I suggest you take a look at some of the missions created by the community for dcs a-10, lots of well done missions with hundreds of triggers to make it very dynamic. My personal favorite is the "on station" mission thats does a great job at simulating CAS directed by jtacs.

It sounds like you are describing an "Air Quake" TvT environment, but seriously 90 % of dcs mp servers are coop. Most TvT is in FC2.

I still think it's a great idea for the CH team to explore the possibility of creating a dcs apache module and create some cash for their own project in the long term. I would buy both sims if they are completed.

Last edited by Skoop; 06/18/12 11:13 PM.
#3594827 - 06/20/12 06:20 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: Skoop]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Skoop
It sounds like you are describing an "Air Quake" TvT environment, but seriously 90 % of dcs mp servers are coop. Most TvT is in FC2.


In my experience the vast majority of TvT games/sessions do become "Quakes" no matter what game or gametype (Flight sim, FPS, etc...) we are talking about and also it doesn't matter if the games are "realistic" or "arcade".


Quote:

I still think it's a great idea for the CH team to explore the possibility of creating a dcs apache module and create some cash for their own project in the long term. I would buy both sims if they are completed.


One of the problems is that there's absolutely NO garantees that CH gets funded or enought funds by creating an Apache module for DCS (and it was Flexman himself that said this!) and together with this you have the FACT that the DCS sims gameplay is basically the complete/total opposite to what will be CH gameplay and finally add the FACT that DCS sims and CH are inded competing sims (no matter what anyone says and also doesn't matter if both devs don't ackowlege this in public) and with this you'll see enough reasons why for Flexman and his staff doing an Apache (or Chinook) module for DCS isn't a that great idea.

IMO, I think that Flexman and his staff would be better of and better funded if they used the "Kickstarter" project. Kickstarter seems really a great way to get funds and I really advise Flexnam to at least give a look at it, perhaps this the best way for "indie" developers to get funds currently available.

#3594875 - 06/20/12 08:15 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ricnunes]  
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GrayGhost Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
In my experience the vast majority of TvT games/sessions do become "Quakes" no matter what game or gametype (Flight sim, FPS, etc...) we are talking about and also it doesn't matter if the games are "realistic" or "arcade".


You're playing with the wrong people ... but then again, the reason why most of these turn into 'quakes' is because the vast majority are unable or unwilling to keep up with the skills needed to play with the 'right people'. Can't blame them much smile


Quote:
One of the problems is that there's absolutely NO garantees that CH gets funded or enought funds by creating an Apache module for DCS (and it was Flexman himself that said this!)


Yeah, that was Flexman's decision, and he knows why he's making it.

Quote:
and together with this you have the FACT that the DCS sims gameplay is basically the complete/total opposite to what will be CH gameplay


How do you know? Flexman and his crew may intend something, but you're talking as if you had a crystal ball here ... it's ok though, a lot of us have been there. I'm not sure how you came up with this antithesis in gameplay when you haven't played CH.

Quote:
and finally add the FACT that DCS sims and CH are inded competing sims (no matter what anyone says and also doesn't matter if both devs don't ackowlege this in public) and with this you'll see enough reasons why for Flexman and his staff doing an Apache (or Chinook) module for DCS isn't a that great idea.


Is that Flexman's opinion? I mean, he may think so as well, but that isn't what he said - so I believe smile

Quote:
IMO, I think that Flexman and his staff would be better of and better funded if they used the "Kickstarter" project. Kickstarter seems really a great way to get funds and I really advise Flexnam to at least give a look at it, perhaps this the best way for "indie" developers to get funds currently available.


He's got about as much a guarantee to get funded through KS as he does through making a DCS module. KS worked for some people. It really does not work for everyone.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 06/20/12 08:17 PM.

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44th VFW
#3594904 - 06/20/12 08:55 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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komemiute Offline
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Flex stated he CAN'T use KS, IIRC...
There are other opportunities, luckily.

biggrin

Flexhimself
"It is a frustrating situation. Kickstarter has been mentioned by some readers. They are popular atm, seems every man and his dog is funding re-makes on it. Unless I can find a business development manager to set-up a US based entity it's not going to be an option for us. I don't have the time or experience of US business law to set one up. One UK developer (Carmageddon) recently had to do just that, I envy them."


Click to reveal..
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum

"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice

"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster

"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
#3599409 - 06/29/12 09:24 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: komemiute]  
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CTR69 Offline
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Originally Posted By: komemiute
Flex stated he CAN'T use KS, IIRC...
There are other opportunities, luckily.

biggrin

Flexhimself
"It is a frustrating situation. Kickstarter has been mentioned by some readers. They are popular atm, seems every man and his dog is funding re-makes on it. Unless I can find a business development manager to set-up a US based entity it's not going to be an option for us. I don't have the time or experience of US business law to set one up. One UK developer (Carmageddon) recently had to do just that, I envy them."


They should use indiegogo fundraiser system. Beczl is using this for funding his DCS mig21 development. I'd be happy to chip in 30-40 euros in CH, if it would speed up the development process.

#3600514 - 07/02/12 08:48 AM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: CTR69]  
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Originally Posted By: blabo
They should use indiegogo fundraiser system. Beczl is using this for funding his DCS mig21 development. I'd be happy to chip in 30-40 euros in CH, if it would speed up the development process.

Thought about that to, when seen that BECZL is using it. Could`t be that hard to set up an indiegogo account? But I think that Flex is aware of indiegogo and surely have thought about it...

#3601090 - 07/03/12 11:30 AM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: GrayGhost]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: GrayGhost

Quote:
and together with this you have the FACT that the DCS sims gameplay is basically the complete/total opposite to what will be CH gameplay


How do you know? Flexman and his crew may intend something, but you're talking as if you had a crystal ball here ... it's ok though, a lot of us have been there. I'm not sure how you came up with this antithesis in gameplay when you haven't played CH.



If you look into both sims features you have for DCS:
- Static Campaigns (sequence of single missions that you must acomplish in order to play the next mission and end the campaign). This campaign always end in the same way which is after you sucessfully end the campaign's last mission you win the campaign.
- More detail/priority regarding flight, avionics and damage model -> Claimed to be the most realistic/close to reality in these regards ever seen in a sim and even in some cases claimed to be "same as reality".
- Resuming, as opposed to the 90's sims DCS sims gameplay is modeled around the aircraft/platform itself and not so much regarding the "surrounding world".

For CH you will have (at least what is planned):
- Dynamic campaigns where you get diferent missions everytime you play/restart the campaign where you can lose a mission and still play the "next one". Actually the way you play your missions will dictate which missions or kind of missions will "spawn" after and also the campaign's final outcome (success, failure, etc...)
- While realism regarding flight, avionics and damage model is a goal, these realism features are planned to be an aproximation to reality rather than an "exact replica" to reality (as it's planned in DCS). A higher priority is planned to go towards more detailed/immersive gameplay features such as dynamic campaigns with persistent world, pilot career, etc...
- Resuming, just as in the 90's sims CH gameplay seems that will be modeled around the pilot itself and the world around him/her and not so much around the aircraft/platform itself.


Well, I can't see a bigger antithesis in gameplay regarding sims than this! wink



Originally Posted By: GrayGhost

Quote:
and finally add the FACT that DCS sims and CH are inded competing sims (no matter what anyone says and also doesn't matter if both devs don't ackowlege this in public) and with this you'll see enough reasons why for Flexman and his staff doing an Apache (or Chinook) module for DCS isn't a that great idea.


Is that Flexman's opinion? I mean, he may think so as well, but that isn't what he said - so I believe smile


Don't know if this is Flexman's oppinion or not, you'll have to ask him but both sims (DCS and CH) are directed to the same "audience"/customer base therefore like it or not they are competing games (or sims if you prefer).



Originally Posted By: GrayGhost

Quote:
IMO, I think that Flexman and his staff would be better of and better funded if they used the "Kickstarter" project. Kickstarter seems really a great way to get funds and I really advise Flexnam to at least give a look at it, perhaps this the best way for "indie" developers to get funds currently available.


He's got about as much a guarantee to get funded through KS as he does through making a DCS module. KS worked for some people. It really does not work for everyone.


Nope, with Kickstarter you pleage a value (for a certain amount of time/days) without selling anything (at least immediatly) and if you get the designed pleaged value you get that money (again without selling or finishing your game). The worst case scenario would be not to get the pleaged value and you would get back to where you started -> without getting any money but also without losing money.
Selling CH as a DCS module you would first need to finish the game (invest from your pocket) and worst case scenario is if you don't get enough sales you would end up expending more than you get from sales income and all of this for a "direct competing" sim.

#3601619 - 07/04/12 11:27 AM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ricnunes]  
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komemiute Offline
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Quote:

Selling CH as a DCS module you would first need to finish the game (invest from your pocket) and worst case scenario is if you don't get enough sales you would end up expending more than you get from sales income and all of this for a "direct competing" sim.



Not true, Beczl with its Mig21 is doing a DCS module that's being funded with an option like Kickstarter = he is getting money before the completion of the module.


Click to reveal..
"Himmiherrgottksakramentzefixhallelujah!"
Para_Bellum

"It takes forever +/- 2 weeks for the A-10 to get anywhere significant..."
Ice

"Ha! If it gets him on the deck its a start!"
MigBuster

"What people like and what critics praise are rarely the same thing. 'Critic' is just another one of those unnecessary, overpaid, parasitic jobs that the human race has churned out so that clever slackers won't have to actually get a real job and possibly soil their hands."
Sauron
#3601707 - 07/04/12 03:15 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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Hmm, the primary factor is spare time now, me thinks. What is AD doing in the meantime? wave

#3619400 - 08/03/12 01:09 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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Flex`s Twitter:
Quote:
New build of CH completed. First in quite a few weeks.

smile

#3619680 - 08/03/12 07:06 PM Re: Longbow Combat-Helo, a secret no more. [Re: ]  
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