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#3557140 - 04/16/12 03:06 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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The air at 20km, where the MiG-25 makes Mach 3 is substantially thinner than at sea level where the MiG makes about 1200km/h.

Exactly! "Foxbat" could speed up on high altitude, therefore it reaches + 300 degrees Celcius and more than 3000 km/h (where VEGA hits +4.5 Max), so why the missile couldn't sustain 3000 km/h ot 1000 meters where MiG had 1200 km/h? We knew that in program 1, the missile accelerates slowly... Anyway, one F-14 is down, now will try to rape some A-7...

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3557159 - 04/16/12 03:52 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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CooLDoG Offline
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Click to reveal..
Asuluk training ground.

Practice target:
Radar Reflector

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:00, Practice target Radar Reflector launched

00:02:38, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 20km
Target azimuth: 48°
Target elevation: 14°
Target altitude: 5km
SNR mode: LORO - 75km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


00:02:43, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 20km
Target azimuth: 48°
Target elevation: 14°
Target altitude: 5km
SNR mode: LORO - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:02:50, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 20km
Target azimuth: 47°
Target elevation: 14°
Target altitude: 5km
SNR mode: LORO - 75km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


00:03:09, Missile exploded on Channel-1
Practice target Radar Reflector killed by nuclear blast. (distance from epicenter: 0m)

00:03:22, Missile exploded on Channel-3

Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 53sec

I feel sorry for the radar reflector. But an interesting thing about this shooting is that the nuclear blast actually took out my second missile!

Also, just playing around:

The missile exploded and I head a big bang. However, I wasn't taken out! I then dialed the range bore-sight down to as low as it can go, and I heard an explosion, but I wasn't taken out. Probably just the beta version.

#3557162 - 04/16/12 03:58 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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CooLDoG Offline
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This deserves a double post!

Click to reveal..
13:45 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number one.

S-75M3 Volkhov


00:01:37, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 90km
Target azimuth: 176°
Target elevation: 15°
Target altitude: 24km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:01:52, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 90km
Target azimuth: 173°
Target elevation: 17°
Target altitude: 27.8km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 75km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


00:02:04, V-760 15D Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 81km
Target azimuth: 169°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 28.9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)


00:02:37, Missile exploded on Channel-1
SR-71 Habu killed by nuclear blast. (distance from epicenter: 1404m)

00:02:46, Missile exploded on Channel-2
SR-71 Habu killed by nuclear blast. (distance from epicenter: 62m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 30sec


First time I have seen the words, Habu killed on my screen.

#3557165 - 04/16/12 04:06 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
1, Congratulation for the OPF shot!
(In reality it was never achieved)

Must have reading for the insights...
http://narod.ru/disk/11803446001/%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F%2086.djvu.html




2, Vega missile is accelerating over Mach6 at high altitude, where the MiG-25 can achieve Mach3 only.
Vega missile is accelerating over Mach3 at low altitude, where the MiG-25 can achieve bit over Mach1 only.

Nose overheat was a big real issue during development, and several test shots was failed due the nosecone faliure.
Please observe, that overheat caused by air friction is much higher at low altitude.

3,The missile exploded and I head a big bang. However, I wasn't taken out! I then dialed the range bore-sight down to as low as it can go, and I heard an explosion, but I wasn't taken out. Probably just the beta version.

Nuclear explosion will take out your SAM missiles also.
You can alwasy hear the BIG Nuclear BANG, just wait for its sound to arrive...
... our missiles are travelling with Mach2~3, while the BANG never achieves more than Mach1.

To hear a Nuclear Detonation at 25km, you need to wait more than a minute after the explosion...

4, Launching 3 V-760 missile against one SR71 is a real overkill. yep
I should add nuclear radiation exposure calculation for your site after nukeig half Vietnam...

cowboy

Last edited by Hpasp; 04/16/12 04:25 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3557207 - 04/16/12 04:49 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Lieste Offline
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Being a sound wave, it does of course travel at the speed of sound... however, the local pressure is so much higher at short distances that close the the detonation the velocity is somewhat higher than the nominal maximum of 340.5 m/s - this influence rapidly falls away as the pressure reduces with the cube of distance, and for all practical purposes the 'normal rule' applies for longer distances.

This is true of all explosions, but the difference is only significant for larger events where the really high pressure extends for more than a trivial distance. Overall, I'd be surprised if it was more than 1 second earlier for any practical device, but just nitpicking the 'never more than Mach 1' winkngrin

For example, a 6kt warhead's blast wave will reach 610m in the first second.
BLAST.EXE (a 'certified' Dos based blast effects calculator for nuclear weapons effects)

#3557233 - 04/16/12 05:22 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Lieste]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Hungary, Europe
I used these theories to calculate Nuclear Bomb Effects:

http://www.makeitlouder.com/document_bombshockwaveestimation.html
for normalizing the over speed of sound shock-wave for Mach1 you mentioned.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/effects/
For Nuclear Bomb Effect calculation.

As the Russians considered 6km safety distance for the V-760 (15kt) missile, and Mr. William Hamby III, Ph.E.'s theory would result 5.93km distance for maximum window glass breaking level, I considered it close enough for the SIM.

thumbsup


Last edited by Hpasp; 04/16/12 05:56 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3557296 - 04/16/12 07:20 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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I didn't understand - is nuclear fireball simulated on the screen? the only thing I saw is that target and missiles disappeared?

2, Vega missile is accelerating over Mach6 at high altitude, where the MiG-25 can achieve Mach3 only.
Vega missile is accelerating over Mach3 at low altitude, where the MiG-25 can achieve bit over Mach1 only.


That's why she is 3 Mach, not 6 Mach, right?
I believe that below 80 km range (Program 1), much more effect has the curvative efect of the ground.
Looking at the pictures about Libya, seems they tossed those HARM's from about 55 km, after quick climb to increase his range...

#3557297 - 04/16/12 07:23 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Originally Posted By: piston79
I didn't understand - is nuclear fireball simulated on the screen? the only thing I saw is that target and missiles disappeared?

2, Vega missile is accelerating over Mach6 at high altitude, where the MiG-25 can achieve Mach3 only.
Vega missile is accelerating over Mach3 at low altitude, where the MiG-25 can achieve bit over Mach1 only.


That's why she is 3 Mach, not 6 Mach, right?
I believe that below 80 km range (Program 1), much more effect has the curvative efect of the ground.
Looking at the pictures about Libya, seems they tossed those HARM's from about 55 km, after quick climb to increase his range...


Please check...

Chapter X — Radio and Radar Effects
Effects on Radio and Radar Signals 479
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/effects/eonw_10.pdf#zoom=100

Nuclear fireball is opaque for radar.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3557328 - 04/16/12 08:15 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Quote:
o·paque (-pk)
adj.
1.
a. Impenetrable by light; neither transparent nor translucent.
b. Not reflecting light; having no luster: an opaque finish.
2. Impenetrable by a form of radiant energy other than visible light: a chemical solution opaque to x-rays.
3.
a. So obscure as to be unintelligible: "opaque, elusive, minimal meanings" (John Simon).
b. Obtuse of mind; dense. See Synonyms at dark.
n.
Something that is opaque, especially an opaque pigment used to darken parts of a photographic print or negative


So, which is appropriate for the S-75M's transmition? Is it 1."Impenetrable" or 2."Not reflecting"?

P.S. I am not fluent in english, so a bit easier explanation could be better for me...

Last edited by piston79; 04/16/12 08:17 PM. Reason: P.S.
#3557343 - 04/16/12 08:39 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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CooLDoG Offline
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@piston, I was more asking why nothing happened when an explosion took place below the safety zone. That thing exploded only 1-2km away from me if not less! I should have been hit by the shock wave before the sound came in. But I was still fully functioning.

#3557363 - 04/16/12 09:12 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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montieris Offline
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baltics
quite interesting pdf above;

about opaque; as i understood radar waves are absorbed in that area - not reflecting.
its kinda void/black hole for radars. biggrin

edit; is this effect also related to plasma stealth?
Click to reveal..
10.116 A large amount of attenuation by absorption occurs when the propagation path traverses a fireball. The attenuation is determined by the properties of the fireball and these are strongly dependent on altitude. In general, it can be said that fireballs will be opaque to radar signals operating at frequencies of 10 gigahertz (104 megahertz) and below, for periods of tens of seconds to a few minutes.


not sure i understood this one; is this simulated / affect volhov radar?
Click to reveal..
10.120 The fireball and the charged particles in the tube enclosed by the geornagnetic field lines (§ 10.65) may reflect or scatter radar waves, thus producing spurious signals which may be confused with target return signals. This effect, known as "clutter," may occur by reflection frorn rapidly changing gradients of electron density or as backscatter frorn irregular patches of ionization or frorn particulate scatter thrown into the air when a fireball touches the surface. Clutter returns rnay be so intense as to affect radars in the same way that terrain features sometimes cause difficulties by reflecting energy back to the receiver thereby masking weak targets.



#3557445 - 04/16/12 11:32 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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CooLDoG Offline
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Right, opaque usually refers to absorbers of radiant energy (light, radar waves, etc.). NOT things that allow for such waves to pass through an object. Pretty sure that hpasp is saying that it is a "black hole" on radar.

#3557697 - 04/17/12 12:28 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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The question is rather what effect of this nuclear-tipped missiles.

I do not understand.

Yesterday I tried did not work in any way to run these missiles.

As I understand it must be some settings Tumblers from the Volkhov.

And what effect is achieved I do not quite understand the prompt!

In the missile-760 is only at the Volkhov, it is active, the Dvina is not active.

As I tried to run yesterday, nothing happened, I started all toggle switch which is still no start.

And what effect is achieved by firing a missile that B-760?

#3557729 - 04/17/12 01:18 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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CooLDoG Offline
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I'll upload a picture of what needs to be switched later today.

#3557828 - 04/17/12 04:04 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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RA-6 Warhead of the V-760 15D (Guideline Mod.4) - Nuclear tipped SAM Missile, for the S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E Guideline) system.

Last edited by Hpasp; 04/17/12 04:11 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3558113 - 04/18/12 02:59 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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CooLDoG Offline
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Scratch that, I'll upload a picture soon. Ran out of time!

#3558157 - 04/18/12 04:59 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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Virginia
Very nice updates. I'm really enjoying the 3D AAR feature!

For whoever asked how to launch a nuke:
1. Locate the fuse selector switch and rotate it all the way to the right.


2. Select one of the two rightmost guidance methods.


After that you're able to launch.

Originally Posted By: piston79
Anyway, the SIM proves to me that any claims from Libians (and some russian sources) that NAVY losts F-14 in those engagements, are just propaganda....

Looks like a duck shoot to me.

13:46 24th of March, 1986.
Operation Prairie Fire

S-200VE Vega-E


00:04:37, Missile launched from launcher-1
Target distance: 85km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 275m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 39dB


00:04:46, Missile launched from launcher-2
Target distance: 83km
Target azimuth: 12°
Target elevation: 2°
Target angular speed: 277m/s (0.9 Mach)
Target altitude: 4.5km
RPC mode: MHI - Narrow Beam
GSN mode: Acquire target before launch
Received signal strength: 39.2dB


00:05:45, Missile exploded
F-14B Tomcat killed by SAM. (miss distance: 3m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 18sec

#3558477 - 04/18/12 06:34 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: CooLDoG]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: CooLDoG
This deserves a double post!

[First time I have seen the words, Habu killed on my screen.


Volkhov could bring it without nuclear warhead...

#3558479 - 04/18/12 06:39 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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- nice shots from S-25, SA/S-75, S-125...

#3558524 - 04/18/12 07:53 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Please observe the Vega effective destruction area.
(The purple part of the upper picture, is where your missiles overheat...)


Click to reveal..


Here was written that purple area is "Below horizon blind zone"... Could you help with some sources about heating?

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