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#3558505 - 04/18/12 07:25 PM [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners  
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Krabb Offline
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After starting the game, click "Quick battle". In the window that appears, configure the settings as desired. I chose the side of Iraq (1) against Iran (2) and set the default camouflage (19, 20). Proceed to the deployment of forces by clicking on the second button from the left on the bottom panel.



Select the cell around which the battle will take place (left click on it).



Place your subordinates. Select the desired platoon from the list on the left and place it by left-clicking at any point of any green cell. The icon of a man indicates platoons, which the player can control. I placed three T-62 platoons in one cell.



Place enemy forces in the same way by pressing the blue flag. I placed three Chieftain platoons. Push the button with a clock icon (rightmost) and ...



... start the battle by clicking on the fire icon.



Deployment of forces mode. There is currently no need to invent anything, just leave the mess that has turned out after the start. Go to the next mode by pressing the clock on the bottom right panel (or simply Enter).



Initial orders mode. Box select the mess and give the attack order (bottom right panel) somewhere in the enemy cell. Press the "pause" button on the bottom left panel (or Enter).



The battle begins! Initially, we start at commander's place. But enough of the command, so switch to the gunner by pressing F6. Don't lose time, immediately give the order to start loading the gun: select APDS - key 1, start loading - R. Look in sights - V key, switch zoom - Tab, look closer - Backspace. Set battlesight range (1900 m) with mouse wheel or Page Up and Page Down keys. Aim the gun using mouse, fast rotate the turret and gun - cursor arrows. Fire from the gun - left click, coax machinegun - right click. Since you'll be firing within battlesight range, aim at the base of the visible target. The screenshot shows how it approximately should look. If it is hard to aim, you can press E key - short stop - after firing the tank will continue to move.



See also:
Deployment of forces
M60 firing
T-62 firing
Using the rangefinder on the M60
Range determination using the mil-relation formula
Tanks weak spots

Last edited by Krabb; 11/29/12 04:57 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3558859 - 04/19/12 08:12 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Thanks for the above tutorial.

The more of these the better to help people get started.

Regards, MarkL


MarkL
#3559182 - 04/19/12 07:07 PM Deployment of forces [Re: Krabb]  
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Last time we decided to rely on chance and leave the forces in a disorder. Now we will master the deployment in our own way.

To avoid unnecessary map clutter, disable the briefing - F7, as well as markers - F6 (it will be possible to get them back by pressing F6 once for individual markers or twice - for group markers).

At the bottom there is unit selection panel. Select the commander of the first platoon. By default, we are in unit placement mode (marked button on the bottom right panel). Relocate the commander by right clicking on the target point. If you "stretch" the cursor in any direction holding the right button, you will see a green arrow indicating the direction in which the unit will turn.



Place the platoon in a line by clicking on the marked button on the bottom right panel.



Repeat the procedure for the second and third platoons.





As you can see two tanks appeared a little aside. Fix it. Choose one of the tanks, and Ctrl-select the other. Right click at a point just below the middle between them, in my case it is indicated by a small blue circle.



Unit rotation mode. Select all units and switch to this mode by pressing the marked button on the bottom right panel. Right-click to set the direction in which units will turn.



Here's how it should look like.


Last edited by Krabb; 11/29/12 04:59 PM.
#3559183 - 04/19/12 07:07 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Brilliant stuff Krabb!

Put a little help tutorial with pictures here:

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3556241/SA_BoW_question_about_aiming.html#Post3556241

Feel free to steal butcher modify and amend this if it might save you some time regarding t62 aiming.

Regards

Skimbo


Never open an umbrella in your trousers
#3559199 - 04/19/12 07:26 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Thanks for the feedback MarkL and Skimbo!

I'm actually translating my tut from Sukhoi.ru: http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=74674. But I'm open for suggestions, criticism and such.

#3559318 - 04/19/12 10:43 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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You are doing great - keep it up!

Skimbo


Never open an umbrella in your trousers
#3560421 - 04/21/12 06:37 PM M60 firing [Re: Krabb]  
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Selecting a shell

The bar at the bottom right displays the selected shell, the status of "load" command and the number of available shells.



Keys:
1 - armor-piercing discarding sabot tracer (APDS-T M392),
2 - high explosive anti-tank tracer (HEAT-T M456),
3 - high-explosive plastic tracer (HEP-T M393A1).

In addition extra shells are available - their presence is indicated by a small triangle on the icon of the shell. By right-clicking on the icon with such triangle, you can switch between: high explosive anti-tank tracer (HEAT-T M456) and white phosphorus tracer (WP-T M416), as well as between high-explosive plastic tracer (HEP-T M393A1) and anti-personnel tracer (APERS-T M494).

Pressing R key commands the loader to start loading until all shells are exhausted or until the cancellation command (by pressing R again).

Pay attention: the selected shell is also indexed in the ballistic computer, therefore do not select another shell ahead of time!

Firing within battlesight range

For APDS-T M392 battlesight range is 1600 m, for HEAT-T M456 and HEP-T M393A1 - 1200 m.

Using the nonballistic reticle and the ballistic computer

Index battlesight range in the ballistic computer - press N and set the range by rotating the mouse wheel or by pressing Insert and Delete keys (hold Shift for larger steps).



Look in sights - V key, switch to the nonballistic reticle - Z and C, look closer - Backspace. Aim at the base of the visible target.



To turn off/on the ballistic computer, hold Ctrl to show the cursor and click on the ballistic computer icon on the bottom bar.



Using the ballistic reticle

Switch to the ballistic reticle - Z and C. Place the range line corresponding to battlesight range of the selected shell on the base of the visible target. APDS-T M392 and HEP-T M393A1 scale.



HEAT-T M456 scale. Switch between scales for different ammo types - G.



Request the range from the commander

Hold Ctrl to show the cursor and click on the target. The commander will determine the range, it will be automatically indexed in the ballistic computer. For nonballistic reticle (switch to it with Z and C) the aiming point is the center of the target. Blue triangle on "binocular" icon indicates that the commander sees the target and can determine the range.



Clicking on the target designates it for the entire platoon by default. To avoid this, press ` key (left of 1 and above Tab) and disable shared targets.



For ballistic reticle place the range line corresponding to the determined range and the selected shell on the center of the target. You can view the range indexed in the ballistic computer and determined by the commander on the marked icons.



In poor visibility you can turn on a light filter - F and reticles highlight - H.





At night targets are illuminated by the xenon searchlight mounted coaxially to the main gun.



Of course, the enemy can see the searchlight too, therefore you can turn it off by pressing ` key (left of 1 and above Tab) and prohibiting the firing (see screenshot). View through sights deteriorates significantly.



Fire from the gun - left click or Space, coax machinegun - right click or Q. For coax MG for the ballistic computer you can use HEP-T M393A1, or use its scale on the ballistic reticle.

Last edited by Krabb; 11/29/12 05:02 PM.
#3560430 - 04/21/12 06:45 PM Re: M60 firing [Re: Krabb]  
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Gosh, this forum doesn't have tables? My penultimate lesson will be UGLY.

#3560459 - 04/21/12 07:43 PM Re: M60 firing [Re: Krabb]  
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Lol - good work krabb. Can't wait for next tutorial.

Skimbo


Never open an umbrella in your trousers
#3560597 - 04/22/12 12:43 AM Re: M60 firing [Re: Krabb]  
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Yes excellent indeed, thanks for doing this Krabb thumbsup
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3560822 - 04/22/12 01:11 PM T-62 firing [Re: Krabb]  
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T-62 has a stabilized horizontally and vertically main gun (and coax machinegun), which enables the gunner to track and fire on the move with significantly improved accuracy. To turn it on and off press N key.

Selecting a shell

The bar at the bottom right displays the selected shell, the status of "load" command and the number of available shells.



Keys:
1 - armor-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot tracer (APFSDS-T 3BM3),
2 - high-explosive anti-tank fin-stabilized (HEAT-FS 3BK4),
3 - high-explosive fragmentation fin-stabilized (HE-FRAG-FS 3OF11).

Pressing R key commands the loader to start loading until all shells are exhausted or until the cancellation command (by pressing R again).

Firing within battlesight range

For APFSDS-T 3BM3 battlesight range is 1900 m, for HEAT-FS 3BK4 and HE-FRAG-FS 3OF11 - 900 m.

Look in sights - V key, switch zoom - Tab, look closer - Backspace. Set battlesight range for the selected shell with mouse wheel or Page Up and Page Down keys (hold Shift for larger steps). Aim at the base of the visible target.



Determine the range using the stadia

At the bottom right of the sight there is range estimation stadia set for a 2.7 m high target (average tank). To determine the range to the target center the full height of the target between the stadia lines, so that it touches both lines. Read the range, in 100s of meters, on the upper stadia line where the top of the target touches the upper line. In this case the tank (the left one) is at about 1400 m.



Request the range from the commander

Hold Ctrl to show the cursor and click on the target. The commander will determine the range. Set it for the selected shell with mouse wheel or Page Up and Page Down keys. Aim at the center of the target. You can view the range determined by the commander on the marked icon. Blue triangle on "binocular" icon indicates that the commander sees the target and can determine the range.



Clicking on the target designates it for the entire platoon by default. To avoid this, press ` key (left of 1 and above Tab) and disable shared targets.



In poor visibility you can turn on a light filter - F and reticle highlight - H.





At night you are using TPN-1-41-11 sight, targets are illuminated by searchlight with IR filter. Reticle scale consists of the triangle and dashes, the screenshot indicates corresponding ranges (the first line is APFSDS-T 3BM3, the second - HEAT-FS 3BK4 and HE-FRAG-FS 3OF11, and the third - coax machinegun PKT).



Of course, the enemy can see the searchlight too, therefore you can turn it off by pressing ` key (left of 1 and above Tab) and prohibiting the firing (see screenshot). View through sights deteriorates significantly.



Fire from the gun - left click or Space, coax machinegun - right click or Q.

Last edited by Krabb; 11/29/12 05:05 PM.
#3560841 - 04/22/12 02:06 PM Using the rangefinder on the M60 [Re: Krabb]  
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M60 tank commander (F7) has the coincidence range finder, which combines accuracy with speed in determining range. Look in sights - V key, switch to the range finder - Z and C, look closer - Backspace. Switch to partial or full control of fire from the commander's place (marked icon) - key 5. By rotating the mouse wheel or by pressing Insert and Delete keys (hold Shift for larger steps) merge two target images, the range to the target will be determined automatically.





The range is displayed on the marked icon (the range designated to the gunner) and on the indicator to the right of the commander.


Last edited by Krabb; 11/29/12 05:07 PM.
#3560927 - 04/22/12 05:13 PM Range determination using the mil-relation formula [Re: Krabb]  
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In gunnery the unit of angular measurement is the mil. The mil is equal to 1/6400 of a circle (NATO; 1/6000 - ex-USSR). Mils facilitate easy and rapid conversion from angular units to linear, and vice versa, since the arc length corresponding to one mil equals one thousandth of the radius (distance to the target) at all distances. For example, at a distance of 500 m one mil equals 0.5 m, at 1 km - 1 m, 1.5 km - 1.5 m, etc. Knowing the size of the target and its visual angle, it is possible to determine the range to the target, or knowing the range and size, to determine the visual angle of the target, etc.

Code:
    H * 1000
D = --------
       A
where: D - range to the target in meters, A - scope size of the target in mils, H - height (width) of the target in meters.

In ex-USSR angles in mils are usually written in two groups: first group - hundreds of mils, the second - tens and ones. E.g., 1 mil is 0-01, 100 mils is 1-00, etc.



Example

Enemy tank, width 3.5 m, visible at angle about 0-04. Determine the distance.



Solution:

Code:
    H * 1000   3.5 * 1000
D = -------- = ---------- = 875 m.
       A            4

Reticles subtensions

T-62

Binocular


Commander's vision device TKN-3


Telescope sight TSh2B-41


Night sight TPN-1-41-11


Collimator sight K10-T (DShK)


M60

Binocular


Periscope nonballistic reticle M32


Telescope ballistic reticle M105D


Machinegun sight M28C (M85)


Range estimation tables

Code:
Mils              10       9       8       7       6       5       4       3       2       1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T-62, T-55, BRDM-2, GAZ-66, M113A1//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 2,4 m     250     250     300     350     400     500     600     800    1200    2400
BMP-1, BTR-60///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 2,2 m     200     250     300     300     350     450     550     750    1100    2200
M60A1///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 3,2 m     300     350     400     450     550     650     800    1050    1600    3200
Chieftain Mk.5//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 2,6 m     250     300     350     350     450     500     650     850    1300    2600
Olifant Mk IA///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 3,6 m     350     400     450     500     600     700     900    1200    1800    3600
Ratel///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 2,9 m     300     300     350     400     500     600     750     950    1450    2900
Man-sized target////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 1,7 m     150     200     200     250     300     350     450     550     850    1700
Single storey house/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 4,5 m     450     500     550     650     750     900    1150    1500    2250    4500
Telegraph post//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Height 6 m       600     650     750     850    1000    1200    1500    2000    3000    6000


Code:
Mils              10       9       8       7       6       5       4       3       2       1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T-62, T-55//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Length 6,6 m     650     750     850     950    1100    1300    1650    2200    3300    6600
Width 3,3 m      350     350     400     450     550     650     850    1100    1650    3300
BMP-1///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Length 6,7 m     650     750     850     950    1100    1350    1700    2250    3350    6700
Width 2,9 m      300     300     350     400     500     600     750     950    1450    2900
BTR-60//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Length 7,6 m     750     850     950    1100    1250    1500    1900    2550    3800    7600
Width 2,8 m      300     300     350     400     450     550     700     950    1400    2800
BRDM-2, GAZ-66//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Length 5,8 m     600     650     750     850     950    1150    1450    1950    2900    5800
Width 2,4 m      250     250     300     350     400     500     600     800    1200    2400
M60A1, Chieftain Mk.5, Olifant Mk IA////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Length 7,5 m     750     850     950    1050    1250    1500    1900    2500    3750    7500
Width 3,5 m      350     400     450     500     600     700     900    1150    1750    3500
M113A1//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Length 4,9 m     500     550     600     700     800    1000    1250    1650    2450    4900
Width 2,7 m      250     300     350     400     450     550     700     900    1350    2700
Ratel///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Length 7,2 m     700     800     900    1050    1200    1450    1800    2400    3600    7200
Width 2,5 m      250     300     300     350     400     500     650     850    1250    2500

Last edited by Krabb; 11/30/12 04:43 PM.
#3560932 - 04/22/12 05:20 PM Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Yellow - ammo
Red - fuel
Green - engine
Blue - transmission

T-55A


T-62


M60A1


Chieftain Mk 5


Olifant Mk 1A

Last edited by Krabb; 05/06/12 11:21 AM.
#3561316 - 04/23/12 12:27 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Brilliant Krabb - well done mate.

Going to study this a bit more in depth when I get home from work.

Skimbo


Never open an umbrella in your trousers
#3561339 - 04/23/12 01:20 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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A tanks' weak spots are 4 or 5 squishy bags of blood inside... smile


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"There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle
#3561387 - 04/23/12 03:08 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Then it'll be 3 or 4 bags. Who's fifth?

#3561412 - 04/23/12 03:57 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Erm, someone they were giving a lift to.... smile


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"There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle
#3561445 - 04/23/12 04:56 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Yeah, i remembered Israeli movie "Lebanon". Their Sho't (if I'm not mistaken) had enough space first for killed soldier, then for a Phalangist, and then for Syrian captive. I guess Sho't (just as Centurion) uses its space not very efficiently. yep

Last edited by Krabb; 04/23/12 04:56 PM.
#3561793 - 04/24/12 08:55 AM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Hi Krabb

Is it possible to determine range somehow with the TPN-1-41-11 night sight as there is no range scale as per the daytime sight (i.e. the curved line going from 800 upward).

I find it quite strange that the TPN-1-41-11 sight goes up to 3000m yet you probably couldn't see that far with the IR night light - or could you?

Skimbo


Never open an umbrella in your trousers
#3561867 - 04/24/12 01:07 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Yeah that is a little odd that the night sight goes out that far, but it may be there for cases where you have other illumination (flares, fire, etc) or maybe low light, but not totally dark conditions.

You can also fire at muzzle flashes way in the distance, though I've only done that with HE at night against recoiless rifles/infantry.


Last edited by Ryujin; 04/24/12 01:11 PM.
#3561968 - 04/24/12 04:04 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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I think Ryujin is right. That 3000 m of the night sight are for low light conditions and illumination from flares. Or maybe it is there just for completeness.

As for range estimation with TPN-1-41-11, it has only one known subtension - 8 mils between the left or right dash and top of the triangle (see the respective screenshot from my tut: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3560927/Range_determination_using_the_.html#Post3560927). Thus, you can estimate the range by knowing the length or width of the target (see the second table from the same tut).

#3562074 - 04/24/12 06:39 PM Re: Tanks weak spots [Re: Krabb]  
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Tables tables everywhere... Who said being a tank commander was easy? wink

Thanks for all your work on this krabb - invaluable!

Regards

Skimbo


Never open an umbrella in your trousers
#3567131 - 05/04/12 10:30 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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I can't see the screenshots of this Quick Start tutorial...

Anybody else with the same problem?


Txema

#3567414 - 05/04/12 07:49 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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I'm sorry, my image hosting is down. I'll upload images (from backup, so a bit outdated) to another hosting tomorrow or the day after.

#3568188 - 05/06/12 11:23 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Ok, I uploaded images to another hosting.

#3568300 - 05/06/12 04:30 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Nice one Krabb!

Skimbo


Never open an umbrella in your trousers
#3568477 - 05/06/12 11:36 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: skimbo]  
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Thanks Krabb.

I was giving up on this game until your tute removed "the fog of war"

Thanks Krabb.

btw I have installed some mods

Where do i find them to play them

(I haven't yet figured out controls on how to move the tank LOL)

#3568783 - 05/07/12 02:49 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Thank you very much, Krabb. It works now !!


Txema

#3569802 - 05/09/12 05:29 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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You are welcome!

Here is how to install patches and mods: http://graviteam-games.goodluckwith.us/eng/help-2/. There are only few mods so far: my Weapon Mod (though I myself don't use it biggrin ), FlashBurn's Missions and Sound Mod.

#3690851 - 11/30/12 04:45 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Updated for the latest patch and added a bit more info about mils.

#3789795 - 05/30/13 08:09 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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"Here is how to install patches and mods: http://graviteam-games.goodluckwith.us/eng/help-2/."

The link is dead now. Some other source of information? Unfortunately the 581 update is kill my sabow. :-) No sound, no picture, no smell.

#3789966 - 05/31/13 07:11 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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http://graviteam.ua/help/install-patch.html
http://graviteam.ua/help/install-dlc.html

Though it is a bit old. Now you don't need the unpack step, just select .gt2extension in the update utility.

The order is:
  1. Install the core update (gte2_core_update_v581.exe)
  2. Install the patch (mtc80_sabow_patch_aug12_rus_beta3.gt2extension)
  3. Install mods (still the same: my Weapon Mod (now I use it biggrin ), FlashBurn's ISABOW, and Sound Mod)

Steps for patches and mods are:
  1. Start the game update utility
  2. Click Install button
  3. Browse to patch/mod, and select it (all mentioned above has .gt2extension, if it is not .gt2extension (the old method), select another file type in the file open window, e.g. "Addons *.addpack", or "ZIP-archives *.zip")
  4. Click Save and Play

The order of patches and mods in the update utility doesn't matter while everything is for the same game version. Otherwise (some mod is for a previous game version) the patch must be above the old mod.

If you have troubles with the core update:
  • check that it was installed in the right folder (its defaults are not correct in some cases)
  • if it is Vista or later, it is probably better not to install the game to Program Files (problems with UAC and virtual folders, see the next item)
  • if Vista or later, verify C:\Users\<Your user name>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore folder, delete SABOW folder there, and reinstall it to a different folder (not Program Files)
  • verify that you have the latest DirectX
  • install MS redist updates from docs\support\redists folder (or from Microsoft itself http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26347)
  • disable antivirus (they are troublesome!)
  • sometimes a reboot helps (this one is probably an effect of one of the previous items)

#3790527 - 06/01/13 03:09 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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apelles Offline
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Thanks Krabb! I try it.

#3790585 - 06/01/13 05:10 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Thank you again Krabb. It's work now.

#3790818 - 06/02/13 06:03 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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FlashBurn Offline
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Originally Posted By: Krabb
http://graviteam.ua/help/install-patch.html
http://graviteam.ua/help/install-dlc.html

Though it is a bit old. Now you don't need the unpack step, just select .gt2extension in the update utility.

The order is:
  1. Install the core update (gte2_core_update_v581.exe)
  2. Install the patch (mtc80_sabow_patch_aug12_rus_beta3.gt2extension)
  3. Install mods (still the same: my Weapon Mod (now I use it biggrin ), FlashBurn's ISABOW, and Sound Mod)

Steps for patches and mods are:
  1. Start the game update utility
  2. Click Install button
  3. Browse to patch/mod, and select it (all mentioned above has .gt2extension, if it is not .gt2extension (the old method), select another file type in the file open window, e.g. "Addons *.addpack", or "ZIP-archives *.zip")
  4. Click Save and Play

The order of patches and mods in the update utility doesn't matter while everything is for the same game version. Otherwise (some mod is for a previous game version) the patch must be above the old mod.

If you have troubles with the core update:
  • check that it was installed in the right folder (its defaults are not correct in some cases)
  • if it is Vista or later, it is probably better not to install the game to Program Files (problems with UAC and virtual folders, see the next item)
  • if Vista or later, verify C:\Users\<Your user name>\AppData\Local\VirtualStore folder, delete SABOW folder there, and reinstall it to a different folder (not Program Files)
  • verify that you have the latest DirectX
  • install MS redist updates from docs\support\redists folder (or from Microsoft itself http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=26347)
  • disable antivirus (they are troublesome!)
  • sometimes a reboot helps (this one is probably an effect of one of the previous items)



Krabb last time I checked you also made ISABOW possible. Even if it was a FAIL in popular terms. But the energa rifle grenade, m106 spm, m113a1 with recoiless where cool IMO. biggrin

#3790831 - 06/02/13 06:57 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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The link a gave is to "my" version. Or are you speaking about controllable vehicles? I remember they were in half working state still. biggrin

#3790834 - 06/02/13 07:14 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Dont remind me......SO many hours on that. Well and Isabow so under downloaded. sad. Just took to long to get up and going. So many had moved on in game terms.

#3790902 - 06/02/13 02:53 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Just my two cents on SABoW and why it never really caught on.

Playable MBT's.
Not to disrespect or belittle anyone's hard worked too improve SABoW (way more then I could ever hope to do) but the main opportunity of what should have been addressed in SABoW first by the modders was really missed I hate to say. But lets just call a spade a spade here. Having a new energa grenade rifle, M113a1 and M106a1, F5E AI models in game while all great improvement for SABoWs gameplay unfortunately are just not going to be the major spark that brings an influx of modders wanting and looking to improve SABoW. Making the AI MBT's in SABoW user playable would have done just that and I believe everything would have eventually flowed from that. I honestly don't want to sound ungrateful for what you guys have accomplished, talking smack isn't my style, but guys it is what it is. My conclusion is based on a comparison with SABoW and another Graviteams title SFK42. Both share a lot of parallels and had the same problems in their initial release form when it came to user playable armor. SFK42 struggled early on (here in the western community anyway) and very few played it or actually heard of it. The turning point for SFK42 and it's modding success in the very big picture was when the playable PzII, PzIIIJ/1, StuG III mod from Mikhayl was made. It's my firm belief that this one mod and the following SPM mods really saved SFK42 from becoming an obscure title like SABoW. Unfortunately for SABoW's it's two playable MBT (and only one of those is playable in all campaigns) was a big problem that really needed a priority concentrated group effort to change or improve first before anything else. Andrey12345 did state very early on that it was possible for modders to make the AI MBT's user playable in SABoW without the 3D crew stations as a quick solution. He also said those 3D crew stations could be added later by someone with the skills, reference material and time to do it just as Kyth did for the PzIII and Kv-1 in SFK42. Which both started out as AI only and when first made user playable did not have 3D crew stations either btw. But for some reason this one most important mod never materialized for SABoW. It's about choice comrades and SABoW does not give you any when it comes to MBT's.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3791132 - 06/03/13 01:33 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: godzilla1985]  
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No I agree. All those little projects where learning tools walking towards playable tanks. SABOW was COMPLEX as hell under the hood. It HAD to be due to simulation level of the tanks. Which was why there was only 2 tanks. Making the other tanks playable was possible but the learning curve was vary large. Donken sort of got his tiger working in sabow. I got my m113, m113 with recoiless, and that reworked oliphant kind of playable. BUt never got any of them really useable. Krabb and myself where close to solving. We released ISABOW to just get something out there. Why it was called part1. LOL> But in the end total fail as a mod and I was just not smart enough to reverse engineer playable tanks it a fully usable way. I was smart enough to make fully working AI usable stuff.

RIght now I am simply discouraged all around. If I had my way I would make graviteam due 2 things.

1. MAKE a gtos style game or BIG dlc devoted to western ww2. I AM NOT KNOCKING eastern front. That is the sole of GTOS/APOS. BUT limited appeal in west for mass market. I fear for mius. I will get day 1 and i am sure love the thing to death but average joe in West never heard of any of this.

2. Adapt GTOS assest into a tank/vehicle sim. THe models are made and payed for. They are EXACTLY the same if used in a tank sim or GTOS. Due to complex nature of fully working tanks round out with playable halftracks and more simple vehicles. AND if possible without lowering tank features....rework code for more easy for mod types.

3. Hire me LOL. biggrin ok that was a funny.


But lets face it of the stuff I made.... THE f5, g3, m2hb, are now in GTOS DLC's. They are getting more traction there than they ever got in SABOW. ALso there are other things of mine I have made or are in various states of DONE that could also end up in GTOS at some point. As making content guy, it sort of makes you happy when lots of folks are out there somewhere getting their forces blown up by something you made. biggrin

Last edited by FlashBurn; 06/03/13 02:14 AM.
#3791538 - 06/03/13 10:37 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: FlashBurn]  
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My apologies FB, but believe me when I say that what I wrote yesterday I did with a lot of trepidation. From an outsiders POV it just didn't seem like much collaboration in reaching certain objectives was happening with the people who had some knowledge of how SABoW worked, and I now stand corrected on that. I totally believe you when you say SABoW is one complex piece of software. I may not know much when it comes to programming but just from playing PC sims for the past 30 years it's easy to see there is a lot going on under the hood in SABoW.

To be totally honest here FB I would be totally happy (dare I say ecstatic) if someone could someway just import the darn M60 into the other campaigns with whukids new armor and ammo values. To cuss2 with historical accuracy now cause it sure don't matter at this point that I can see. I just want the option to use the M60 for the other 3/4ths of this game besides the T-62.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3791740 - 06/04/13 08:03 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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I'm not sure why do you need historical accuracy with whukid's new armor and ammo values. biggrin

#3791744 - 06/04/13 08:16 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Most mod types where ww2 focused. With no map editor and SO much changed since k42......well apart from Donkin no one was doing ANYTHING in sabow. Well Whukid but he was after IDF. WHICH IS STILL GOOD IDEA.

Which IMO is why another stab at a tank sim during ww2 set up like SABOW would probally do it. DO an eastern theater campaign. Do a Western theater campaign. All bases are covered. With GOOD publisher or self published and MP. WEll could be the deal that brings back armor ww2 sims. But the RISK is HUGE and the money bag types would be scared of the risk. OR force arcade changes to game that would equal suicide IMO. That has been attempted and epic FAIL every time except in air plane sims.

Self funding......well you need cash you can aford to loose. OR something like kickstarter. But you need to raise alot of CASH for a niche thing. But this 30 - 40 dollar price point aint gonna cover the costs. Likly HAVE to be higher.

Last edited by FlashBurn; 06/04/13 08:23 AM.
#3792162 - 06/05/13 01:08 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Originally Posted By: Krabb
I'm not sure why do you need historical accuracy with whukid's new armor and ammo values. biggrin


I think you misunderstood what I was saying krabb, I DO NOT care about historical accuracy in SABoW now wink

I have not been able to try out whukids tweak since he said I would have to create my own flatdata file and I have no clue how to it (hint, hint). But I don't see how whukids tweak could be any worse in relationship to how the T-62 is represented currently in SABoW. If I may quote Kyth from a post at Graviteams forums concerning this very problem:

From the Overt Russian bias killing SABOW? post by whukid

Kyth: I recently looked at the FAQ by Krabb at the SimHQ forum and realized one thing - the hitboxes for the T55 and T62 are all along the right side of the tank. Maybe this is the explanation? That your aiming at the wrong place?

And I have too agree with his assessment. In one of the final battle of the Iran/Iraq Khuzestan Offensive I played recently I had 4 M60's left versus 2 Iraqis T-62's, and both the T-62's were stuck in a ditch, (their cannon's could barely clear the ditch wall and only at certain sections) easy pickings....or so I thought. My first 2 M60's took a positioned about a 1000 yrds on a hill firing directly down on the T-62's. Despite my firing into them with APDS-1 and HEAT-T rounds the T-62's destroyed these M60's. My third M60 I moved up on the same hill to a position where I thought the T-62's cannons couldn't clear the ditch wall at about 800 yards away. That M60 ended up with everyone dead except the driver after a few APDS-1 rounds fired (guess my "blind spot" position was a little off). My last M60, on the same hill, definitely in a spot where they couldn't train their guns on, at about 200 yards which I would consider point blank range, spent all my remaining APDS-1, HEAT-T and HEP-T rounds and still the T-62's were unaffected. I know this since they killed this M60 too when I blundered a little to close dizzy The one common thread through all this nonsense was all my shots were on the left sides of the T-62's. To be more specific the rounds were actually hitting the top left side, shots to the top left engine compartment...no effect, shots to the top left turret...no effect etc. So if whukids "tweak" helps level the playing field in dealing with the T-55 and T-62 with the M60 I'll take it because the way it is now sure isn't historically accurate either. Even if the T-55 and T-62 are less vulnerable on the left side, at those ranges it shouldn't matter (I would think). But no tank that I know of can take rounds to the top surfaces and be totally unaffected. Unless of course the T-55 and T-62 had some kind of super secret urber armor applied only to the left and top left sides of the tank hahaha

One other side note, anyone notice the in game icons for the APDS-1 and HEAT-T rounds look reversed biggrin
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3792174 - 06/05/13 01:38 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: FlashBurn]  
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Originally Posted By: FlashBurn
Most mod types where ww2 focused. With no map editor and SO much changed since k42......well apart from Donkin no one was doing ANYTHING in sabow. Well Whukid but he was after IDF. WHICH IS STILL GOOD IDEA.

Which IMO is why another stab at a tank sim during ww2 set up like SABOW would probally do it. DO an eastern theater campaign. Do a Western theater campaign. All bases are covered. With GOOD publisher or self published and MP. WEll could be the deal that brings back armor ww2 sims. But the RISK is HUGE and the money bag types would be scared of the risk. OR force arcade changes to game that would equal suicide IMO. That has been attempted and epic FAIL every time except in air plane sims.

Self funding......well you need cash you can aford to loose. OR something like kickstarter. But you need to raise alot of CASH for a niche thing. But this 30 - 40 dollar price point aint gonna cover the costs. Likly HAVE to be higher.


Agreed FB, I would pony up a $145.00 USD (I did for SB Pro) but I sure would want more then 2 playable MBT tanks to start with (at least 2 MBT's from US/RU/GB/GER), eastern/western theater maps, an easy to use mission editor and a commitment of continued dev support through the products lifespan and it be self published. Heck if they added more vehicles/maps later via DLC packs (like APOS) I be good with that too and I would happily pay more then the couple bucks they charge now for APOS DLC's. But the reality is andrey12345 has already done a poll on this at Sukhoi.ru and most there (overwhelmingly) picked a free to play-pay for content (like Rise of Flight). Funny how andrey12345 never conducts those polls here since it would be interesting to see how far apart (or of the same mind) the two camps are on this.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3792261 - 06/05/13 06:24 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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well SB pro price point is to damned high. SOMEDAY I will pull the trigger on it. But even with this 3.0 coming out the engine is just to "old" looking IMO for my tastes. However, still on the find the penny's list of thing I need to get. Also seems to support user work.... biggrin But even if 49.99 ....that extra 10 or 20 bucks could fund 1 or 2 more playable tanks. ALL depends on end sales. Adding in new vehicles and content later would CERTAINLY appeal to the hardcore tanker. AND spreads the risk. But heres the thing with GRAVITEAM. THeir primary game is GTOS series. THis makes cash. Not a huge amount but enough to keep them going. AND its a damned good series. BUt SABOW is the same game engine. Making vehicle sims from the assets made for GTOS spreads the risk. They are in unique position in that not all the eggs are in one basket. would LOVE for them to look at unusual approaches to getting a sim out there. LIKE some of what some the other small fry independants do. Such as bring onboard talented folks with passion for tank sims and pay them on the BACK END after sales. Folks would not make much money as this sort of thing is not goona sell 1000000 copys. Issues abound but it cost them like 20000 dollars for the playable tanks in SABOW. For niche product....thats quite alot. Or if they could JUST FREAKEN UNLOCK the sim stuff in GTOS. LOL. Not as easy as just that, but you see my point.

In the end we have NO IDEA how many copys of SABOW got sold. How many copys would have to get sold to break even and of course generate profit to fund next things. Brake even is no good as leaves no moneys to fund projects.

They also need MORE expossure in main stream press in the West. Issues with this one as this takes money. Usually this is what the damned publisher is suppose to do. But current mega publishers are only interested in garbage like COD.

#3792263 - 06/05/13 06:42 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Oh on the T62. Want to point out that in hull down the m60 and take a HUGE beating on the front turret. I think the ai of the t62 know exactly where to aim for bad things to happen on the M60. For massive kill knowing where the ammo is stored is key. BUT I think the spall effect need to get more looked at. Firing a heat round into the crew conpartment of a t62 should result in dead and vary wounded crew. Now in sabow it seems when dealing with tanks you have to pretty much aim at crew position and kill them one by one if you can not get a shot on ammo magazine. Oddly enough I do not see this happening as bad in GTOS DLC's using t62, t55, oliphant, or m60. Same damage/ammo models right?

#3792640 - 06/06/13 12:35 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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Well FB if your not seeing this problem as much in GTOs then I would concur that something definitely changed compared to SABoW. Now are the files interchangeable? I couldn't even hazard a guess (or would know where to look for a comparison).

Also I did want to point out that the first, second and fourth M60 in my AAR got more then just a couple rounds into those T-62's before they (the M60's) were destroyed. This wasn't a quick draw event as the T-62's didn't even know I was there until several rounds dropped on their heads. I don't remember the exact amount of rounds impacting on those T-62's but it's safe to say each received no less then 10 hits each of mostly APDS-1 and HEAT-T and those shots were not spray and pray either. Those T-62's should have brewed up long before I lost my 4 M60's considering where the shots were placed and the range they were fired from.

As for the price of $145.00 for SB Pro, well all I can say is you get what you pay for. Yes I agree SB Pro may not be worth $145.00 If you base it solely on the GFX but it makes up for it in other departments fo'sure. The real sad part for SABoW is this title could have commanded a SB Pro price too had it been self published (not tied to the whims of crappy publishers) had a few more user playable units, a few more maps and an easy to use mission editor, had some form of MP, and had continued dev support and upgrades. But SABoW had one thing SB Pro might never get and that is it looks so much better. If you look strictly at SABoW and SB Pro on the most basic of level's SABoW isn't a poor mans SB Pro. The playable armor is done to a high degree of fidelity (except for the T-62 and it's undefeatable left side armor wink ) SABoWs SP AI is better then SB Pro, the GFX is better as are a few other things. I had high hopes for SABoW but not as a direct competitor to SB Pro since they model 2 totally different era's of armored warfare but as a title that could have reached the status of a premier armored sim like SB Pro. If I could convince Graviteam of one thing if they were doing a new WW2 armored sim it would be offer what SB Pro does, self publish and charge accordingly.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3792670 - 06/06/13 02:52 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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"Had","was","could have","if only". This all sounds like a post-mortem, is the game not available any more?


"It's fascinating to think that all around us there's an invisible world we can't even see.
I'm speaking, of course, of the World of the Invisible Scary Skeletons."

#3792692 - 06/06/13 04:17 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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But current mega publishers are only interested in garbage like COD.

I think you are being too harshly judgmental Flashburn. COD may not be your kind of game( it ain't mine either) but calling it garbage is your point of view. As I said I don't care for that type of gameplay but in its genre it's well made and it appeals to the masses. Not everybody gets off on sims tank or others and everybody is entitled to have the type of games they enjoy playing it's matter of taste. Games are for entertainment not education nor status. I , for one, enjoy playing Steel Fury and Steel Beasts and BF3 and Far Cry 3, Arma 2 and Stalker as well. I don't see any contradiction in it; just having a gamut of different tastes to suit my mood of the moment or the free time I have available to play. If somebody likes Cod or Black Ops or Counterstrike or Medal of Honour then I am happy for them even though I don't share their interest.We have to be tolerant of different folks , different strokes.

#3792719 - 06/06/13 07:51 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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I tested T-62 left side yesterday, both in SABOW and GTOS. All I can say they are easily get on fire from 3-4 hits, tried at distances from 500 m to 1.5 km. I don't know why you have problems with them. And Andrey told me armor settings of tanks were not changed in GTOS. Maybe you do something wrong, bad tactics and such? biggrin

As of COD, I agree with FlashBurn, it IS garbage, who plays it for a long time? It's like you complete the game once, having all that mindless fun, and then throw it away forever. Only few individuals maybe play it more than that. So, how do you call something you throw away? Exactly. Even publishers think of it like that, it gets its first big sales, then new shiny super-duper all the new title appears, and they forget about the old. And about tolerance you should tell that those COD folks, when they say their grand opinion about a serious game, too hard, too stupid, you know.

#3792745 - 06/06/13 11:14 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: frinik22]  
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Originally Posted By: frinik22
But current mega publishers are only interested in garbage like COD.

I think you are being too harshly judgmental Flashburn. COD may not be your kind of game( it ain't mine either) but calling it garbage is your point of view. As I said I don't care for that type of gameplay but in its genre it's well made and it appeals to the masses. Not everybody gets off on sims tank or others and everybody is entitled to have the type of games they enjoy playing it's matter of taste. Games are for entertainment not education nor status. I , for one, enjoy playing Steel Fury and Steel Beasts and BF3 and Far Cry 3, Arma 2 and Stalker as well. I don't see any contradiction in it; just having a gamut of different tastes to suit my mood of the moment or the free time I have available to play. If somebody likes Cod or Black Ops or Counterstrike or Medal of Honour then I am happy for them even though I don't share their interest.We have to be tolerant of different folks , different strokes.


It is frustration talking. AT the dawn of PC gaming SO many games where thinking man games. YA there where others as well of course. Fast forward to now...... WELL I sware to gawd people have either become more stupid or just lazy. COD and clones have changed the face of what gets made. EASY accessible brain dead is IN, intelligent is OUT. With sales of COD sort of games SO high, and publishers getting so few, well we get stuck with endless stream of BAD. It effects all vain of game types. Of course it is a glass bubble. You can only make the same thing X many of times. Publishers do not make games....they just are money bags. AND they want to make ALOT of money. Which is both good and bad really. The big publishers just focus in on mega AAA projects and leave floor open for niche small frys. THIS IS GOOD. But they can not match in distribution and such. Which is also only concerned about MAX profit. The issue becomes as a small company making a great niche thing.......well its a HIGH stair way to clime now a days. But invovation and the next GREAT thing will come from here as nearly AWLAYS. Why graviteam will likly never get on something like steam. If it did, it would sell. But not mega millions of copys. I really liked old impulse before bought by gamersgate. Alot of great gems on there from small independants. But now pretty much down to gamersgate. And they are getting odd sometimes on what to distribute. SAles direct can work but someone has to KNOW about the game to start with.......

And COD 1 and 2 where not bad at all in there day. But do not resemble at all what they are now.

#3792912 - 06/06/13 05:30 PM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
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frinik22 Offline
Member
frinik22  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 365
Unfortunately gaming is a business, a big one like car making, appliances, computers and electronics etc...What do we get in terms of cars of electronics? Mostly second rate stuff mass-produced, not very original and not made to last or shine but to make big profits for the manufacturers and distributors. The same, I am afraid, goes for gaming. A lot of mass-production with each company cloning their competitors games to outdo them and very few gems. That's what consumerism has created; it has made cheap and available to the public at large many things that were in the old days reserved for the elite or the few wealthy omes.The downside it's all for mass appeal and little class.

#3793114 - 06/07/13 01:46 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,119
godzilla1985 Offline
Member
godzilla1985  Offline
Member

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,119
Pa
Originally Posted By: Krabb
I tested T-62 left side yesterday, both in SABOW and GTOS. All I can say they are easily get on fire from 3-4 hits, tried at distances from 500 m to 1.5 km. I don't know why you have problems with them. And Andrey told me armor settings of tanks were not changed in GTOS. Maybe you do something wrong, bad tactics and such? biggrin


Wow krabb I never knew you needed to be tactical genius to take out 2 enemy tanks stuck in a ditch with their firepower pretty much neutered, you hold a 2 to 1 advantage, you hold the high ground on a slope shooting directly down into them hahaha

Also I never said I had a problem with the M60 being able to kill T-62's or T-55 or anything in Quick Battles. Actually the M60 seems quite up to the task as is the T-62, but I noticed in a campaign the M60 can be totally different animal under certain circumstances. What I think you missing in my description of the problems I have experienced is two things that seem to sometimes trigger a problem.
1). It only affects the M60 if your using that vehicle.
2). It's late in the campaign and your winning.

Look I'm not saying this is normal, or even consistently repeatable, but I have noticed SABoW can do some odd things on occasion late in a campaign when again:
1). Your winning the campaign
2). Your using the M60.

And before anyone accuses me of trying to formulate some kind of strange T-62 conspiracy theory I need to mention another anomaly that again seemed only to happen late in the campaign when:
1). Your winning the campaign
2). Using the M60.
Anyone remember the Head Damage problem I reported before the last update? A few players reported they had it happen too if I recall correctly so I know it wasn't an event experienced by one player only. Again I was pretty much rolling up the Iraqi Army and was pushing deep into their territory, I thought I had this campaign won. I would check my units at the end of a phase and make sure to send damaged or depleted units back to repair or supply units at the start of the next Tactical/Deployment phases (as I always do). When I started the battle up to 1/2 my remaining M60's would report Head Damage and high tail it to the rear confused So I just restarted that phase over again and the same thing happened again cuss I restarted the phase again but this time I started with an outside external view from my tank watching the other tanks in my platoon. I figured maybe my units must be coming under artillery attack or sapper's with portable ATM's or a hidden enemy mortar teams . As I watched nothing was happening for a few seconds, no artillery, no sapper, no motar fire, no small arms fire...nothing. As luck would have it suddenly 2 M60's in my platoon reported Head Damage and did a 180 heading straight for the rear lines followed by reports from my other M60 platoons that one or two were having Head Problems too banghead

Two things I noticed about this Head Damage:
1). It never happened in the Iran/Iraq Campaign I played using the T-62 (even when I was winning).
2). This Head Damage problem for the M60 totally disappeared when the last update came out, I never experienced it again or have I heard anyone else report it again after the last update.

We all agree SABoW is a complex piece of software and as such I think we can agree it is very possible that a bug could be in the game that only appears under certain circumstances or under certain conditions. And it is also possible that it could affect only one type of vehicle. And I think this is exactly what is happening.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3793216 - 06/07/13 09:32 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: Krabb]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,740
FlashBurn Offline
Senior Member
FlashBurn  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,740
Washington State, USA
YA that head damage bug was LAME. Assmusing sometimes...ok not really. Yes it IS possible that some wierd bug still resides in the M60. I once killed a m60 with .50 cal MG from my testing of playable (sort of) m113. On the FRONT of turret too. That should NOT be possible. But was never able to recreate it. May have been one in a million thing. Like bullet went threw commanders vision slot and somehow hit ammo. OR a hit box under certain events is sticking threw mesh. This would mean the armor simulation would not take into account as the damage box is out side the thing. THis I have wondered about with the m60. But hard to test. Usually for me it works as advertised...well except being able to turn out when ever I want. But this related to the simulation of the range finder I think. Seems to be one or the other....which SUCKS.

Becasue of STUPID publishers... I think SABOW is pretty dead as far as a future goes. Still vary good. But I really hope we see WW2 tank sim in same vane. biggrin Just a weee bit more polish and coming up with a way to make more accessable to newbies. THAT IS hard as the complex level of tank sim and making EASY for new guys are not really compatible. Ok why lie....I want to tankers version of GTOS Mius...LOL>

PLayable pz3 series, maybe a stug, halftracks, M3a1 steward (cause I am wierd), t34 version (probably 1942 version as they did 1941 in k43), KV1 would be nice or any of the SU series. I really think su76 would be VARY interesting choice. But so would t60/t70. Of course they could never do all that at once. BUT DLC's.......... A new vehicle with updated campaigns.... well I can dream..... Man I would LOVE to make playable m3a1 stuart. That would be FUN. Or even 250 series of half tracks... Or su76. Ok WELL you get the idea. DOing in K42.......well after sabows campaign system..no interest in modding k42. frown Still GREAT game and keep my disk close at hand JUST in CASE.

Last edited by FlashBurn; 06/07/13 09:47 AM.
#3801680 - 06/26/13 07:27 AM Re: [SABOW] Quick Start for Beginners [Re: FlashBurn]  
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 262
Kyth Offline
Member
Kyth  Offline
Member

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 262
Originally Posted By: FlashBurn
PLayable pz3 series, maybe a stug, halftracks, M3a1 steward (cause I am wierd), t34 version (probably 1942 version as they did 1941 in k43), KV1 would be nice or any of the SU series. I really think su76 would be VARY interesting choice. But so would t60/t70. Of course they could never do all that at once. BUT DLC's.......... A new vehicle with updated campaigns.... well I can dream..... Man I would LOVE to make playable m3a1 stuart. That would be FUN. Or even 250 series of half tracks... Or su76. Ok WELL you get the idea. DOing in K42.......well after sabows campaign system..no interest in modding k42. frown


You might want to reconsider, the Stuart and SU76M would be much needed additions to K42. smile


"It's fascinating to think that all around us there's an invisible world we can't even see.
I'm speaking, of course, of the World of the Invisible Scary Skeletons."

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