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#3501193 - 01/22/12 10:22 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: piston79
Maybe I am wrong, but better results against "Shrike" has the rotating the SNR away from it and then Switch it off.


Yes, I also do this. Actually I do two things when I have an incoming ARM:
1- Turn off the transmitter
2- Rotate the SNR away from the incoming missile's direction.

I noticed that sometimes rotating away the SNR may be enough to loose an incoming ARM but when I want to play safe I also turn off the SNR as well. wink

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3501195 - 01/22/12 10:29 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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OK, I DID IT!! I managed to show down the SR-71 but with a Volkhov - I still think that with the Dvina it's impossible to bring down the SR-71. The Volkhov is definitly a far more advanced than the Dvina specially against Jamming targets which is the case. Also if I'm not mistaken the Volkhov seems to have a bit more range than the Dvina (but I could be wrong here).

Anyway, here's my AAR:

Quote:

13:45 19th of December, 1972.
SR-71 bomb damage assessment flight number one.

S-75M3 Volkhov


39:28, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 124km
Target azimuth: 186°
Target elevation: 11°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


39:50, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 106km
Target azimuth: 185°
Target elevation: 13°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


39:58, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 99km
Target azimuth: 184°
Target elevation: 13°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


40:04, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 94km
Target azimuth: 183°
Target elevation: 14°
Target altitude: 23,9km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


41:05, Missile exploded on Channel-1
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 90m)

41:30, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 33km
Target azimuth: 160°
Target elevation: 41°
Target altitude: 22,6km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: I87V/TT (I87V Three Point)


41:36, V-755 20DSU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 32km
Target azimuth: 159°
Target elevation: 42°
Target altitude: 22km
SNR mode: Wide Beam - 150km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)


42:11, Missile exploded on Channel-2
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 4m)

42:17, Missile exploded on Channel-3
SR-71 Habu killed by SAM. (miss distance: 5m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 35sec




I have been so infuriated with that SR-71 that after shooting it down (the first impact killed it) I decided to shot two more missiles (when the SR-71 was going down) just to "be sure" that it would "die for sure" attack

#3501374 - 01/23/12 03:21 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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max2012 Offline
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Yes, of course, more advanced than the Volkhov Dvina!

For example in the Dvina is only wide beam!

Volkhov has a wide beam, narrow beam and PODSVET.

SR-71 is a very high-speed target and Dvina can not shoot it down, because the rocket more primitive than the Volkhov.

You can try to bring down the Dvina, but I think it's very difficult to do.


Last edited by max2012; 01/23/12 03:22 AM.
#3501376 - 01/23/12 03:25 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Dvina has not I-87V

Dvina instead has a table to determine the distance to the target!

#3501422 - 01/23/12 05:03 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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You can try to shoot down the SR-71 Dvina!

Is there a way so clever if you keep the height at around 24 km away by hand, it is not easy, but you can!

If you keep the height of 24 km mark the height manually, then you can try the SR-71 Dvina!

#3501450 - 01/23/12 06:17 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes

Yes, I also do this. Actually I do two things when I have an incoming ARM:
1- Turn off the transmitter
2- Rotate the SNR away from the incoming missile's direction.

I noticed that sometimes rotating away the SNR may be enough to loose an incoming ARM but when I want to play safe I also turn off the SNR as well. wink


I meant when see ARM, switch off, rotate in other direction (say left of ARM's course), switch on for a moment, switch off, rotate right of ARM's course, switch again on for a moment, than completed off air. I've been told that "Shrike" search for maximum emitted energy, and when it is not on the middle of the diagram of transmition (i.e middle of the screen), when you switch on after change the direction, it would turn to go in the middle of the screen. I am not sure that those method is really works, at least don't know how Shrikes are modeled in the SIM and how they really works. One thing say for sure - switching off helps! wink

#3501490 - 01/23/12 09:11 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp, three probable things to improve in Neva:

1) range scale at I2 - the present scale (starting from 2,5 km) is visible by default in FK mode. In BR it gets into the other scale, starting from 0 km (actually visible before the system is switched on). The "0 km" scale can also be switched on in FK mode (which switch?). Seems that we should finally have a chance to observe the first phase of missile flight (booster separation -- still hoping...).
BTW, 0 km scale visible at enclosed pictures.

2) h1 and h2 indicators do not work in BR mode (the whole panel gets power off when BR). Having indicated what was the REAL miss of REAL missile against REAL target would make life too easy, woulnd't it? wink Isn't the same case with Volkhov?
BTW, you can just simulate electronic launch at Neva...

3) Neva missile trajectory - I have enclosed below two pictures suggesting some pre-programmed missile behavior in MV mode (loop at initial flight phase), and K3 effect after miss. Hpasp, do you think you can simulate that?
(Even though up-down seem to have been reversed - right should go upwards - basic idea is visible).






(all points - courtesy the former Neva operator. Hoping to see him joining our discussion - gentlemen, it would be a real breaking point wink )

And my own one:
When launching missile with transmitter off (Volkhov / Dvina), the missile can be seen from the very beginning, before 'catching' channel mark. BUT, it seems to me that before missile enters the appropriate channel (it is when SNR starts to hear the missile's messages "I am here, everything OK" and react by emitting guidance commands, the missile should be invisible to the SNR, or maybe visible just as a pure reflection of "something" - but only when transmitter is on.

#3501745 - 01/23/12 06:09 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Why two boresights?

#3501789 - 01/23/12 06:59 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
OK, I DID IT!! I managed to show down the SR-71 but with a Volkhov - I still think that with the Dvina it's impossible to bring down the SR-71. The Volkhov is definitly a far more advanced than the Dvina specially against Jamming targets which is the case. Also if I'm not mistaken the Volkhov seems to have a bit more range than the Dvina (but I could be wrong here).


Yes, missiles of Volkhov are more advanced and are usable even in their passive flight. Radio fuse 5E11 is more advanced that older one - "Shmel".

Originally Posted By: ricnunes
I have been so infuriated with that SR-71 that after shooting it down (the first impact killed it) I decided to shot two more missiles (when the SR-71 was going down) just to "be sure" that it would "die for sure" attack


Haha, so familiar, when I killed SR-71 for the first time with "Dvina" I was so excited, that I launched my last one when SR-71 was falling allmost on my SNR, and due to quick rotation the missile was lost! biggrin thumbsup

Last edited by piston79; 01/23/12 07:00 PM.
#3501829 - 01/23/12 08:03 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVMBWJuvT-E&feature=related

Zoltan Dany's second unit doing fine.... smile Special to Vintorez - the biggest fan of SA-3! wink

#3501855 - 01/23/12 08:23 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVMBWJuvT-E&feature=related
Zoltan Dany's second unit doing fine.... smile Special to Vintorez - the biggest fan of SA-3! wink


Im quite skeptical about this.
nope
The F-16CG was shot from the firing position near Karlovcic (still visible on Google Earth), at 2:08am!!!


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3501885 - 01/23/12 08:59 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Lieste Offline
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#3501891 - 01/23/12 09:03 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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That was joke, I saw it was at night, in youtube can find a tape from that one. But one I posted here looks real, smoke trail was vissible, two missiles too... It looks like early in the morning 31 may or 1 june, last use of graphit bombs over Obrenovac,the plane goes to Bosna. It looks like the map you've posted, but the date is different. Maybe this one manage to go back to base...

#3502021 - 01/23/12 11:08 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: max2012

You can try to shoot down the SR-71 Dvina!

Is there a way so clever if you keep the height at around 24 km away by hand, it is not easy, but you can!

If you keep the height of 24 km mark the height manually, then you can try the SR-71 Dvina!



I think you are probably confusing the Dvina with the Volhov. In the Dvina you can't (at leats as far as I know) set a target manual altitude as opposed with the Volhov and its I87V instrument. Besides there are also two other reasons why I'm thinking that it's basically impossible to intercept the SR-71, which are:
1- According to the manual's data the Volhov's missiles maximum range is 9km farther than the Dvina's missiles maximum range and this makes all the diference! I did several tries with the Dvina against the SR-71 and it seems that in the exact moment (range) that the Dvina missiles should be hitting the SR-71 (impact point) is when the SR-71 starts to change directing in relation to the player's SAM site/radar so and again the Volhov's "extra" maximum range of 9km seems to make all the diference.
2- Like Piston79 mentioned in a previous post, the Volhov's radio fuse is also much more advanced than the Dvina's one which also makes all the diferece specially when engaging jamming targets and special very high speed and altitude targets like that SR-71.

#3502027 - 01/23/12 11:13 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Hpasp,

Please model and release that Op. Allied Force scenario (F-16 shot down by SA-3), specially now that (today) I managed to shot down the F-117 in the Op. Allied Force scenario wink


Speaking of it (the F-117 scenario), here's my AAR:

Quote:

20:32 27th of March 1999
Third Night of the Operation Allied Force raid against Serbia.

Targets:
Beograd - 4 flight of F-117A Stealth

S-125M1 Neva


19:55, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 14km
Target azimuth: 267°
Target elevation: 32°
Target altitude: 8km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


20:02, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 15km
Target azimuth: 271°
Target elevation: 31°
Target altitude: 8km
Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)


20:23, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-117A Vega-31 hit by SAM. (miss distance: 75m)

20:30, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-117A Vega-31 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 87m)

20:37, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 17km
Target azimuth: 292°
Target elevation: 26°
Target altitude: 7,8km
Missile guidance method: PS (Lead)


20:44, V601PD 5V27D Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 18km
Target azimuth: 294°
Target elevation: 24°
Target altitude: 7,6km
Missile guidance method: TT (Three Point)


21:07, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-117A Vega-31 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 118m)

21:14, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-117A Vega-31 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 98m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 2min 11sec

#3502099 - 01/24/12 12:37 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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Interestingly you can do the same thing Dvina!

F-117A to bring down the Dvina!

#3502100 - 01/24/12 12:39 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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My question is how did you manage to S-125 Neva knock it stealth?

Many times I tried it after all!

I watched the video many times, but could not.

#3502328 - 01/24/12 09:31 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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vintorez Offline
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Hey, Ricnunes, check this out:

Click to reveal..

20:32 27th of March 1999
Third Night of the Operation Allied Force raid against Serbia.

Targets:
Beograd - 4 flight of F-117A Stealth

S-75M3 Volkhov


30:44, Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 22km
Target azimuth: 46°
Target elevation: 15°
Target altitude: 5,9km
SNR mode: LORO - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


31:17, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-117A Vega-30 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 9m)

34:05, Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 19km
Target azimuth: 206°
Target elevation: 23°
Target altitude: 7,9km
SNR mode: LORO - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


34:12, Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 19km
Target azimuth: 209°
Target elevation: 24°
Target altitude: 7,9km
SNR mode: LORO - 75km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)


34:27, Missile exploded on Channel-2
F-117A Vega-31 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 48m)

34:34, Missile exploded on Channel-3
F-117A Vega-31 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 40m)

Total, SNR On Air Time: 5min 21sec


not only a greatest fan of Neva (thanks for footage, Piston!) but also duly trained in Sistiema-75 smile

#3502347 - 01/24/12 10:57 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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Super!

thumbsup

#3502357 - 01/24/12 11:54 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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Question about Hpasp!

What is planned after the release of the Dvina?

As I understand the Shilka will not this year for sure.

And what will happen, at least approximately, that the plans for 2013?

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