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#3499783 - 01/20/12 11:50 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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HStar Offline
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Hi! I have never tried this sim (mostly because my screen does/did not support the required resolution). Is it possible to see the engagement in something like TACVIEW?

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3499798 - 01/21/12 12:12 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Well I do have one criticism to make regarding this sim, a thing which I find very annoying within the sim:
-> What's the point of having the SR-71 interception scenarios?? I know that it's very, very hard to intercept the SR-71 due to it's speed and altitude but what's extremelly annoying is that on top of this the SR-71 uses ECM (Electronic Counter-Measures) which makes it impossible to track missiles and shooting on noise jamming target isn't that precise and shooting a "special target" like the SR-71 in this mode seems basically to be impossible.

Well (again), this is my frustration speaking but I can't really see how I can kill that nasty SR-71! If the SR-71 didn't have ECM (or at least a so powerfull one) I think there would be some chance to shoot one SR-71 down.

#3499841 - 01/21/12 01:00 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: HStar]  
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max2012 Offline
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Yes , it is possible that such TACVIEW

confused

#3499846 - 01/21/12 01:06 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: HStar]  
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max2012 Offline
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Do you monitor does not support or both!

The monitor supports 1920x1080 and can be 1680x1024 and 1280x1024 support anywhere!

Older monitors the type of "Square" 4x3 support and new 16x9 too!


Last edited by max2012; 01/21/12 01:07 AM.
#3499970 - 01/21/12 04:45 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Well I do have one criticism to make regarding this sim, a thing which I find very annoying within the sim:
-> What's the point of having the SR-71 interception scenarios?? I know that it's very, very hard to intercept the SR-71 due to it's speed and altitude but what's extremelly annoying is that on top of this the SR-71 uses ECM (Electronic Counter-Measures) which makes it impossible to track missiles and shooting on noise jamming target isn't that precise and shooting a "special target" like the SR-71 in this mode seems basically to be impossible.

Well (again), this is my frustration speaking but I can't really see how I can kill that nasty SR-71! If the SR-71 didn't have ECM (or at least a so powerfull one) I think there would be some chance to shoot one SR-71 down.


That's basically the point of the sim. The idea is not to make "fair" scenarios, but realistic ones where the enemy does everything to make the SAM operator's task impossible.

#3500002 - 01/21/12 06:21 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Well (again), this is my frustration speaking but I can't really see how I can kill that nasty SR-71! If the SR-71 didn't have ECM (or at least a so powerfull one) I think there would be some chance to shoot one SR-71 down.


What kind of SA complex you used? Volkhov got him pretty well... (I didn't try in 923.3, but untill now it was possible)

#3500060 - 01/21/12 09:14 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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montieris Offline
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baltics
Hi! I have never tried this sim (mostly because my screen does/did not support the required resolution). Is it possible to see the engagement in something like TACVIEW?

Hi and welcome.

No, Samsim dont have option to export track files, only text report log after turning off simulation.

#3500086 - 01/21/12 10:38 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: montieris]  
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Originally Posted By: montieris
Hi! I have never tried this sim (mostly because my screen does/did not support the required resolution). Is it possible to see the engagement in something like TACVIEW?

Hi and welcome.

No, Samsim dont have option to export track files, only text report log after turning off simulation.


Thanks! I'll try to get this working somehow. Hopefully a 3D feature will be added someday in the program or by an external application. Hm... I might as well try my hand at programming and do that myself... :))

#3500196 - 01/21/12 03:29 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: arkhangelsk

That's basically the point of the sim. The idea is not to make "fair" scenarios, but realistic ones where the enemy does everything to make the SAM operator's task impossible.


Well, I though that the objective of the sim was for the player to shot down enemy aircraft/targets with those SAMs in a realistic manner yes, but shooting down aircraft is the objective. This is the long question of balance in realistic/hardcore sim where they should try to be as realistic as possible but at THE SAME TIME being fun for the player. What I mean is that a sim should have a good degree of dificulty - being dificult but not impossible! And the SR-71 seems impossible to me and I could be wrong but IMO what makes this scenario impossible is the SR-71 ECM jamming which is perhaps too powerfull -> In no circumstance the Dvina tracking radar seems to be able to burn thru the SR-71 ECM jamming.



Originally Posted By: piston79
Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Well (again), this is my frustration speaking but I can't really see how I can kill that nasty SR-71! If the SR-71 didn't have ECM (or at least a so powerfull one) I think there would be some chance to shoot one SR-71 down.


What kind of SA complex you used? Volkhov got him pretty well... (I didn't try in 923.3, but untill now it was possible)


I used the Dvina which is the realistic SAM used in those scenarios.

Anyway, I will try the Volkhov to see if I have a better luck.

#3500276 - 01/21/12 04:32 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
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This SR-71 is very high-speed target.

Volkhov he can rocket is more advanced, behold with Dvina complex because the rocket is worse than primitive.

You can try to bring down the Dvina, but it just is not designed for it.

#3500279 - 01/21/12 04:34 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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max2012 Offline
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I also could not get this SR-71 Volkhov even knock.

Shoot for about 80-90 km about it!


Last edited by max2012; 01/21/12 04:35 PM.
#3500316 - 01/21/12 05:14 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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piston79 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes

I used the Dvina which is the realistic SAM used in those scenarios.
Anyway, I will try the Volkhov to see if I have a better luck.


I manage to kill SR-71 with Dvina, but in previouse version of the SIM - (before realistic fuse settings). There are unclasified reports, that NVA manage to puncture SR-71 in one of his mission, so... We have the chance! wink

Last edited by piston79; 01/21/12 05:37 PM.
#3500340 - 01/21/12 05:35 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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Lieste Offline
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Well the Dvina should be able to 'burn through' but only at relatively close range, while the missile must be launched at extreme range to give a chance of a low-g intercept in the forward quarter, rather than a high g climbing turn through the elevation limit.

The solution is to calculate the range using the elevation angle and plotting board altitude value, and to fire using T/T mode at near maximum kinematic range at target intercept, a few seconds later and the third missile a few seconds after that - one of the three missiles should have the optimal energy and geometry to allow a close pass, and the proximity fuse should do the rest.

As for the B52 missions, or any other 'saturation' attack, the game is to not 'stop' the attack, but to make it too costly for the enemy to attack repeatedly, or to reduce the ability of the enemy to attack with impunity. Staying alive is at least half that battle - better to force one attack group to abort, but not obtain any kills than to kill two jets but be destroyed by a Shrike.

#3500573 - 01/21/12 11:13 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Lieste]  
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ricnunes Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lieste
As for the B52 missions, or any other 'saturation' attack, the game is to not 'stop' the attack, but to make it too costly for the enemy to attack repeatedly, or to reduce the ability of the enemy to attack with impunity. Staying alive is at least half that battle - better to force one attack group to abort, but not obtain any kills than to kill two jets but be destroyed by a Shrike.


Yes, that's logical! If we look into history of aerial strikes we can easily find that NO "massive" or well planned airstrikes were ever stoped. Every big bombing operation reached their intended target, the diference that made each of those operation a sucess was the amount of loses taken (few loses=sucess; many loses=failure) together of course with the damage inflicted on the intended target(s).
Also it's impossible to stop all of those B-52s even because the SAM battery with the biggest number of missile is one that has 13 missile and since there are something like 120 B-52s on those scenarios, it's not hard to do the math that you can stop all of them wink

As opposed to the SR-71 missions, the Linebaker B-52 bombings (first and fourth mission) are IMO the BEST missions of SAM Simulator! They are really thrilling (lots of targets to shoot at) and at the same VERY challenging (heavy ECM enviorment together with constant F-105 Wild Weasel attacks). Excelent work on these missions, they are trully a masterpriece! thumbsup

#3500786 - 01/22/12 07:48 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Today, I played my most sucessfull mission so far in SAM Simnulator so I decide to share my AAR here.
This mission was the first scenario of the Operation LinebakerII and while playing with the SAM battery from the 255/77 Air Defence Batallion, I was able to destroy 2 (two) F-4 Phantoms and 5 (FIVE) B-52s, bringing a total of 7 enemy aircraft shot down!

Congratulate!

Killing the Phantoms has not much point, as they are only blocking the Airports.
(There was a decision made by the Vietnamese Air Defense Chief, at the begining of LB-II, that daytime the Mig's operate, while nigh-time the SAM's. There were only few exceptions.)

This part of your fight must been "interesting"...
thumbsup

SA-75M Dvina
48:51, F-105 Wild Weasel number 1 of pair-1 launched AGM-45 Shrike missile.
49:43, F-105 Wild Weasel number 1 of pair-2 launched AGM-78 Standard ARM missile.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3500788 - 01/22/12 07:57 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Congratulation ricnunes!
Obviously you're the misterious Master of Vinn site, who respected all US Air Force!

Thanks, but who's that (the misterious Master of Vinn site)?


US believed that there were a "killer SAM site" and identified it as VN-549.
whoohoo

In reality, there were no such a site.
77th shot down four, 57th shot down three, 93rd shot down two.
No other battalion had more than one.
cowboy


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3500791 - 01/22/12 08:04 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: piston79]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Hungary, Europe
Other one is with damn Nonius - is it neccesary that? If I have the distance barely (say 5 km -Middle Nonius), and knew it is in the middle of my killing zone, I can fire, it is just to measure shooting and killing zone, it shouldn't have any effect on aquracy, right? When dealing with fast moover like SR-71, it is jumping up and down on Noniuses, and I can't lock them, often switching to more unaqurate Nonius...

Fine Nonius (TH) is enough, with its 400m uncertainty.
The Plamya-KV (CVM) should know the target distance, to be able to download the flight program into the SRP.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3500794 - 01/22/12 08:14 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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piston79 Offline
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Hi Hpaps,

A question about last version. Is there any changes in missile behavior and/or way of calculating the impact point, particulary about UPR and K modes for Dvina/Volkhov?
If there are changes, please, describe them, because It seems to me that missiles do much more UPR than before (say ver 923.0)???
confused darkcloud

Last edited by piston79; 01/22/12 11:29 AM.
#3500795 - 01/22/12 08:16 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Lieste]  
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Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
As for the B52 missions, or any other 'saturation' attack, the game is to not 'stop' the attack, but to make it too costly for the enemy to attack repeatedly, or to reduce the ability of the enemy to attack with impunity. Staying alive is at least half that battle - better to force one attack group to abort, but not obtain any kills than to kill two jets but be destroyed by a Shrike.

And as history advances, the USAF/US-NAVY gets nastier and nastier.
In Libya, you will face the HARM missile first time, and THAT will be a nasty surprise.
sigh

If we reach 1999, the skies over Serbia, your main option will be to stay alive.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3500796 - 01/22/12 08:19 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: ricnunes]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
As opposed to the SR-71 missions, the Linebaker B-52 bombings (first and fourth mission) are IMO the BEST missions of SAM Simulator! They are really thrilling (lots of targets to shoot at) and at the same VERY challenging (heavy ECM enviorment together with constant F-105 Wild Weasel attacks). Excelent work on these missions, they are trully a masterpriece!

Thanks, other days of LB-II are also under construction...
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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