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#3499020 - 01/20/12 08:02 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: santy86]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Hi, I am new to SAM simulation. I really like this simulator and I've been playing around with the SA-5 VE for a couple of days now. I noticed that when trying to simulate some target from Ashuluk test range the target, the target spawns very close to the battery position instead of outside the maximum range mark (it would be cool to test those missiles at full range). Answering the request of "santy86", in the next version, you will have the opportunity to try the Vega at full range, against some non-cooperating targets (US-NAVY)... VF102 Fighting Diamondbacks  VA81 Sunliners  VA83 Rampagers  Practice the Vega lot, otherwise you might end up like those Libyans did...  
Last edited by Hpasp; 01/20/12 10:26 AM.
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#3499038 - 01/20/12 08:51 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
vintorez
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
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Wondering how can understand that HARM is on my way with VEGA. I've just started to train on it, but I have great dificulties with target aquisition without IADS... Don't even imagine how to deal with US NAVY...  I think the only way is to ask your Tall King.  P-12/15/18 had no problems observing Shrikes and Standards over Hanoi. A few hints from my painful experience of no-IADS acquisition by Vega: 1) antenna elevation vs. target altitude - click and hold in elevation setting area, then change to Z screen and move mouse left-right, still holding. You will see target altitude indicator following your moves. 2) don't forget to set target's predicted radial speed - I would guess that anything different than SR-71 would have approx 300 m/s, or close to zero if your plotting chart shows that they are going parallel. 3) then, KRUG scanning should do the job. 4) if not, you have LOTS of time to retry. No nerves as by Neva. Hpasp, in Vega 1985 scenario I shoot target 3304. Using some tricks I have my missile get close to him, as the missile passes predicted impact point the linear indicator gets resetted (no more missile in flight), no KRO accordingly, I can still see the guy getting lower and lower, but of no avail in AAR. I see that you have programmed their reaction by lowering altitude, but - a kill or not? Have YOU killed anything but SR-71 and your own MiG-25 in this secnario ever? Thanks for installation hint. More time to practice!
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#3499047 - 01/20/12 09:15 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: vintorez]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Wondering how can understand that HARM is on my way with VEGA. I've just started to train on it, but I have great dificulties with target aquisition without IADS... Don't even imagine how to deal with US NAVY...IADS was not exported to Libya. (Generally it was not exported outside of the Warsaw Pact.)  Here is the official S-200VE Vega-E Firing Manual... http://narod.ru/disk/2674204001/%D0%BF%D...1-200.djvu.html Hpasp, in Vega 1985 scenario I shoot target 3304. Using some tricks I have my missile get close to him, as the missile passes predicted impact point the linear indicator gets resetted (no more missile in flight), no KRO accordingly, I can still see the guy getting lower and lower, but of no avail in AAR. I see that you have programmed their reaction by lowering altitude, but - a kill or not?
All AWACS pilots, during the Cold War had to practice emergency descent, to be prepared for an incoming Gammon... At long range, and low altitude, the Mach6 missile would simply burn away. Here is the Vega-E firing zone: 
Last edited by Hpasp; 01/20/12 10:42 AM.
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#3499101 - 01/20/12 12:25 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Amidkor
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Russia
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#3499146 - 01/20/12 01:45 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
vintorez
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
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In every footage from SA-2/3 operation I see that screens in cabin blink violently. Is it so in real life (maybe due to SNR picture refreshment rate) or is it just in a film, as a framerate overlap effect? Should it be a real-life effect, it would be an eye-killer for crews. And now for something completely different:  Hpasp, note target at the boresight line and jamming below. In this situation I am unable to get an angle lock. Is it normal?
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#3499164 - 01/20/12 02:12 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
santy86
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Italy
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Answering the request of "santy86", in the next version, you will have the opportunity to try the Vega at full range, against some non-cooperating targets (US-NAVY)...
That sounds good  You (as an SA-5B battery commander at Sirte) against the United States Sixth Fleet consisting of three aircraft carriers - USS America (CV-66), USS Coral Sea (CV-43) and USS Saratoga (CV-60); five cruisers, six frigates, 12 destroyers, 250 aircraft and 27,000 personnel... ... to keep the "Line of Death" clear of the Americans.  Don't you think 250 aircrafts are a bit too many for an sa-5 battery 
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#3499325 - 01/20/12 04:31 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
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The documentation for the S-75 Dvina is detailed. I would also like to see documentation on KRUG, Dvina Question How do you take it all! Documentation to the Volkhov I already sent one of the users. I very much liked by very detailed painted as what I want. Very detailed documentation of all calculations as well as mathematical graphs that I sought answers to the engineering.
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#3499332 - 01/20/12 04:38 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
max2012
Member
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Member
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 481
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Documentation for the 220 pages just for me, where everything is painted in detail with examples. A documentation Simulation SAM only 50 pages, as very small and short for me. Example mode Dogon and where and how to use it and why do we need the examples I knew immediately after reading. Dogon is applicable for the purposes at speeds up to 420 m / sec, I did not know before. 
Last edited by max2012; 01/20/12 04:38 PM.
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#3499410 - 01/20/12 05:50 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
ricnunes
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
Portugal
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Today, I played my most sucessfull mission so far in SAM Simnulator so I decide to share my AAR here. This mission was the first scenario of the Operation LinebakerII and while playing with the SAM battery from the 255/77 Air Defence Batallion, I was able to destroy 2 (two) F-4 Phantoms and 5 (FIVE) B-52s, bringing a total of 7 enemy aircraft shot down!  Here's this mission AAR generated by the sim:
4:40am 19th of December 1972
Night-1, Wave-3 of the Linebacker-II raid against Hanoi.
Targets:
Kinh No Industrial Complex - 6 cells of B-52s (18)
Gia Lam Rail Road Yard - 4 cells of B-52s (12)
Hanoi Radio - 7 cells of B-52s (21)
Supporting force:
36 F-4 Phantom-II
6 F-105G Wild Weasel
2 EB-66B Destroyer
2 EA-6B Prowler
1 EC-135 Looking Glass
1 EC-121H AWACS.
SA-75M Dvina
48:51, F-105 Wild Weasel number 1 of pair-1 launched AGM-45 Shrike missile.
49:43, F-105 Wild Weasel number 1 of pair-2 launched AGM-78 Standard ARM missile.
51:36, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 17km
Target azimuth: 11°
Target elevation: 20°
Target altitude: 5,9km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)
52:16, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 15km
Target azimuth: 23°
Target elevation: 8°
Target altitude: 2,1km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)
52:48, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 15km
Target azimuth: 33°
Target elevation: 4°
Target altitude: 1,3km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: K (Half Lead Elevated By Constans)
53:18, Missile exploded on Channel-3
F-4 number 2 of pair-1 blocking Noi Bai airfield killed by SAM. (miss distance: 59m)
53:50, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 17km
Target azimuth: 43°
Target elevation: 19°
Target altitude: 5,9km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: UPR (Half Lead)
54:23, Missile exploded on Channel-1
55:25, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 33km
Target azimuth: 59°
Target elevation: 15°
Target altitude: 8,7km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
55:43, B-52 number 1 of cell-2 bombed Hanoi Radio.
55:52, B-52 number 2 of cell-2 bombed Hanoi Radio.
55:59, Missile exploded on Channel-1
F-4 number 1 of pair-1 blocking Noi Bai airfield killed by SAM. (miss distance: 49m)
56:03, B-52 number 3 of cell-2 bombed Hanoi Radio.
56:24, B-52 number 1 of cell-1 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
56:36, B-52 number 2 of cell-1 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
56:48, B-52 number 3 of cell-1 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
56:50, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 18km
Target azimuth: 197°
Target elevation: 33°
Target altitude: 10,5km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
57:25, Missile exploded on Channel-3
B-52 number 1 of cell-4 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 81m)
57:28, B-52 number 2 of cell-4 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
57:32, B-52 number 1 of cell-3 bombed Hanoi Radio.
57:43, B-52 number 2 of cell-3 bombed Hanoi Radio.
57:47, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 23km
Target azimuth: 188°
Target elevation: 27°
Target altitude: 10,7km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
57:48, B-52 number 3 of cell-4 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
57:54, B-52 number 3 of cell-3 bombed Hanoi Radio.
58:36, Missile exploded on Channel-1
59:31, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 14km
Target azimuth: 355°
Target elevation: 45°
Target altitude: 10,6km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
59:55, Missile exploded on Channel-1
B-52 number 2 of cell-5 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 25m)
00:06, B-52 number 1 of cell-5 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
00:21, B-52 number 3 of cell-5 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
00:34, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 12km
Target azimuth: 92°
Target elevation: 59°
Target altitude: 10,4km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
01:01, Missile exploded on Channel-3
B-52 number 1 of cell-5 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 21m)
01:54, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-1
Target distance: 15km
Target azimuth: 203°
Target elevation: 41°
Target altitude: 10,4km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
02:22, B-52 number 1 of cell-6 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
02:24, Missile exploded on Channel-1
02:26, B-52 number 2 of cell-6 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
02:29, B-52 number 3 of cell-6 bombed Gia Lam Railroad Yard.
02:31, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 17km
Target azimuth: 173°
Target elevation: 36°
Target altitude: 10,4km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
03:07, Missile exploded on Channel-2
05:18, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-2
Target distance: 15km
Target azimuth: 288°
Target elevation: 43°
Target altitude: 10,4km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
05:42, Missile exploded on Channel-2
B-52 number 1 of cell-8 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 26m)
05:56, B-52 number 1 of cell-7 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
06:08, B-52 number 2 of cell-7 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
06:22, B-52 number 3 of cell-7 bombed Kinh No Industrial Complex.
06:34, V-750VKU 11DKU Missile launched on Channel-3
Target distance: 12km
Target azimuth: 201°
Target elevation: 55°
Target altitude: 10,6km
SNR mode: 55km
Missile guidance method: T/T (Three Point)
07:00, B-52 number 2 of cell-8 bombed Hanoi Radio.
07:02, Missile exploded on Channel-3
B-52 number 2 of cell-8 killed by SAM. (miss distance: 85m)
07:10, B-52 number 3 of cell-8 bombed Hanoi Radio.
08:31, B-52 number 1 of cell-9 bombed Hanoi Radio.
08:41, B-52 number 2 of cell-9 bombed Hanoi Radio.
Total, SNR On Air Time: 17min 22sec
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#3499546 - 01/20/12 07:51 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: vintorez]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
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Vintorez, thank you for the advise! I did a mistake somewhere, set the altitude as you wrote, set the speed, should I correct distance? I mean if the distance is 150 km, and target is on, say 18 km altitude, when she moves towards SNR (still searching for it), I should correct distance before start scanning, right? Anyway, this is what I do, and SR-71 from Tallin scenario just recorded my emitions and fly away with this priceless information!!! Other one is with damn Nonius - is it neccesary that? If I have the distance barely (say 5 km -Middle Nonius), and knew it is in the middle of my killing zone, I can fire, it is just to measure shooting and killing zone, it shouldn't have any effect on aquracy, right? When dealing with fast moover like SR-71, it is jumping up and down on Noniuses, and I can't lock them, often switching to more unaqurate Nonius.... Anyway, if Libya is only for Vega, I won't participate... At least I don't won't to kill my favorite airframes in US NAVY - "Tomcat" and A-7 "Corsair"!!! 
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#3499586 - 01/20/12 08:26 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
ricnunes
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 4,840
Portugal
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Congratulation ricnunes!
Obviously you're the misterious Master of Vinn site, who respected all US Air Force!
Thanks, but who's that (the misterious Master of Vinn site)? Anyway, if Libya is only for Vega, I won't participate... At least I don't won't to kill my favorite airframes in US NAVY - "Tomcat" and A-7 "Corsair"!!! Just think like this: From the SAM operator perspective all aircraft (F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, F-4, B-52, etc...) are simply dots or blips. Just think that you're shooting dots
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#3499620 - 01/20/12 08:54 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: ricnunes]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,010
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Just think like this: From the SAM operator perspective all aircraft (F-14, F-15, F-16, F/A-18, F-4, B-52, etc...) are simply dots or blips. Just think that you're shooting dots Yes, and we are just noise in pilot's ears... Thanks for the idea, it could work if Hpasp didn't put those beautiful photos... Now I am helpless....  P.S. I think that VEGA could find the diference between one engined Corsair and double engined Tomcat.
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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