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#3490544 - 01/09/12 01:22 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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Bandy Offline
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Wishing I was in the La Cloche
I would agree with the Luger if it didn't have a rainbow for its trajectory! I've fired one of those, an original, not an 'under license' variant...
I'm sure the devs would model the Luger in the end, I've just always found the C96 to be so much more interesting, and unconnected to that 'other' conflict. biggrin


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#3490638 - 01/09/12 03:45 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: Bandy]  
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My uncle landed at Normandy and I shot the luger that was "surrendered" to him by-well, it's a hell of a story but ya'll probably wouldn't believe it if I told you. Suffice it to say that during the late 1940's early 1950's Encyclopedia Britannica had a huge section dealing with WW2 and in particular the liberation of Paris. My uncle Marsh (a leut.) is pictured holding the luger on a very famous general that was captured during the liberation of Paris.

The luger was a beautiful "commercial grade" pistol and he brought it home with two matching serial numbered magazines, the matching holster and the belt and most importantly the belt buckle. I don't think he ever really understood its value as he let me shoot it many times.

Now the sad part of the story....

My Uncle Marsh passed away while I was serving in the military and my Aunt Wanda GAVE THE FREAKIN' PISTOL, HOLSTER, BELT AWAY!!!!!!!!!

When I came home she told me what she'd done and I think I almost cried. She had no idea as to the historical significance of the pistol because Uncle Marsh never talked to her EVER about his time in Europe. I couldn't bring myself to tell her what she'd done as she could have certainly used the money and lord knows what that pistol had to be worth...

ANYWAY-the bullet trajectory of the 9mm is flatter than the 45 ACP. The 9mm has a mid range traj. of 3.6 inches at 100 yards and the 45 ACP is 6.8 inches at the same range so the 9 has about half again flatter traj. at 100 yards compared to the 45.

A C96 would be cool but modelling the reloading process would be alot of work to make it look good and it would be a BEEE-ATCH to do while flying! biggrin

copter


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#3493075 - 01/12/12 12:37 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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Bandy Offline
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Wishing I was in the La Cloche
I have not purchased the Colt; haven't made up my mind whether it is worth it or not.
Can somebody who owns the Colt provide some screenshots please?

I would like to see whether, as some report, the arm floats in space dismembered.
Do external views show the pilot holding and aiming along the gun?
Are there any limitations, such as pointing the gun to shoot at 6 o'clock?

Thank you.

PS: @ Copter, I can sympathize. I returned from university one Christmas and went to oil up the Spencer repeating rifle (stamped 1861) my father had bought years earlier and gave to me subsequently because he knew I liked it as a piece of history. Ends up he had traded it in for yet ANOTHER deer rifle. We already had over a half-dozen of those within the extended family...

Last edited by Bandy; 01/12/12 12:45 PM.

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#3494057 - 01/13/12 03:16 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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Bandy Offline
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Revisited Leon Bennett's book, "Gunning for the Red Baron" and saw this interesting image, apparently of a real event. I searched for the reference listed, Flying, November 1914 to no avail, but found that Bennett's book is available electronically for about $16, and there is a publisher's preview available. Check it out LINK HERE.



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#3495410 - 01/15/12 05:27 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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navair2 Offline
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I've shot both a Colt .45 ( Argentine army model ) and an original German Luger from around 1939...suffice to say, I preferred the accuracy of the Luger, but my opinion on durability and reliability goes to the Colt.

Also, the Luger in reference was a bit "fussy", needing to be fed rounds that were a certain shape at the nose...it jammed on occasion. My friend still has the pistol, original holster, two magazines and breakdown tool which he got from his father ( a WWII veteran who bought it later on for his collection ) who recently passed away.

I can attest to the accuracy at range as well: The .45 is a bigger and therefore heavier round and the overall cartridge is similar, so "drop" in flight is naturally more pronounced.

@ Copter: Sorry to hear of that being given away, it would have been worth a minor fortune to a collector and the money would have come in handy.

EDIT: I have the ROF Colt Mod, but have yet to try it out in-game.

Last edited by navair2; 01/15/12 05:34 PM.

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#3495425 - 01/15/12 05:46 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: LukeFF]  
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RedVonHammer Offline
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Originally Posted By: LukeFF
Originally Posted By: RedVonHammer
In an "Old Fokkers" session not too long ago we managed to both torch aircraft and hit pilots with the flare gun, no video proof but 7 people saw it and a few of those 7 people are ppl the hardcore ww1 simmer veteran bows his head for so I stand my ground yep


And I stand my ground. I actually asked one of the developers that very question ("can aircraft be set on fire by flares?"), and the answer was a flat-out "No."

Go try it for yourself and see what types of results you get.


Then ask the WW guys, aircraft was set on fire by flare gun. We know what we saw and boy did we laugh out loud!
Started out with a few flares to show stragglers the airfield location at the end of a coop mission, by the time I got there the place was livening up quite a bit.
First time I ever landed in a crossflare.. Then we lined up at the hangars and started shooting flares at eachother, hurting pilots at first, then everyone fired at only one of us, whose aircraft catched on fire, pilot succumbing to the flames, Flybert was the guy that I remember as definitely being there (Along with a great bunch of other WW ppl)

So which of the devs is your source? If it`s 100% undeniable info you got then it`s also official, no? smile
Otherwise RoF has a bug with aircraft on the ground randomly going up in flames lol

#3495468 - 01/15/12 07:09 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Quote:

Also in 1913, two American mercenaries, Dean Ivan Lamb and Phil Rader, representing opposing factions (in Mexican Revolution), engaged in what is thought to be the world's first aerial dogfight near Naco, Sonora, using hand-held revolvers!


http://www.warandgame.info/2008/02/aviation-in-mexican-revolution.html

Sokol1

Last edited by Sokol1; 01/15/12 07:18 PM.
#3495664 - 01/16/12 01:53 AM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: navair2]  
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Copterdrvr Offline
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Originally Posted By: navair2
I've shot both a Colt .45 ( Argentine army model ) and an original German Luger from around 1939...suffice to say, I preferred the accuracy of the Luger, but my opinion on durability and reliability goes to the Colt.

If I was slogging through the trenches I'd want to carry a .45 as well as they can get REALLY dirty and keep firing. I don't think a pilot would have to be nearly as concerned in that regard-he didn't spend alot of time getting "dirty" and because of that, I'd rather be carrying the Luger.

Also, the Luger in reference was a bit "fussy", needing to be fed rounds that were a certain shape at the nose...it jammed on occasion. My friend still has the pistol, original holster, two magazines and breakdown tool which he got from his father ( a WWII veteran who bought it later on for his collection ) who recently passed away.

Remember that all of the pistol rounds until recently (and continuing to this day in the military) have a rounded shape to the actual projectile that enhances the cycling reliability of the cartridge.

I can attest to the accuracy at range as well: The .45 is a bigger and therefore heavier round and the overall cartridge is similar, so "drop" in flight is naturally more pronounced.

@ Copter: Sorry to hear of that being given away, it would have been worth a minor fortune to a collector and the money would have come in handy.

I'm sure you know which general I'm referring to--I can't begin to imagine the value of such a firearm, holster and belt buckle with the generals name engraved on the back of it, not to mention the provenance because of the picture that actually ended up in the Encyclopedia Britannica.

EDIT: I have the ROF Colt Mod, but have yet to try it out in-game.


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#3495947 - 01/16/12 05:11 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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navair2 Offline
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@ Copter:

Can't find the picture you mentioned for the life of me, but I believe you.

Well, SOMEONE had to get the Luger. His commanding officer probably gave it to your uncle after all the picture-taking...;) Yes, I know who the German general was, and yes I believe the story. I've met famous people before they became that way ( they're just people like us ).

I had a girlfriend whose uncle is a famous NFL quarterback from the 1960's and 70's. Ed Marinaro from "Hill Street Blues" walked right by me in the airport at Newark, NJ one day in the mid-80's. My grandmother was in Marty Robbins' fanclub back in the 70's and had many pictures taken with him. It's a small world sometimes.

On-topic:

There's a thread on the ROF forums about getting victories with the handgun, but AFAIK nobody has done it yet and can provide proof:
http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=26603&hilit=colt


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#3496166 - 01/16/12 10:39 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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Bandy Offline
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His Youtube video is definitely worth a look ON THIS PAGE.

Not much kick from that Colt though... WinkNGrin


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#3496225 - 01/17/12 12:21 AM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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Copterdrvr Offline
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Nope, wasn't his commanding officer-he'd been killed on the beach and he was in command of the point unit that arrived at the bunker complex first. He said it wasn't a big deal surrender wise as they'd already apparently made up their minds that the excrement had hit the fan. Of course the big boys showed up later to do the "official" deal.

He told a story of arriving on the outskirts of Paris and a bank had apparently been hit by an artillary round that hit the vault-he said money was all over the street and he had to almost shoot at his own guys to keep them from running out in the open to pick up money that was probably useless anyway!!!!

HAH- that's a good one Naviar2! You're right about that-the person who lived across the hall from my parents was John Carradine, a famous actor from the 40's and 50's ( He was in the original Grapes of Wrath with Henry Fonda). His son was David Carradine of "Kung Fu" met him in the elevator once-weird dude for sure! And on top of that, Burl Ives ( a name I'm sure you've never heard-folk singer) lived on the next floor down.

It was Ca-li-fornia so that explains alot!!! biggrin

copter


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#3496966 - 01/18/12 12:35 AM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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navair2 Offline
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@ Copter: Actually I meant his commanding general.

rofl at the video! I'm trying to see through the tears in my eyes as I type this. It actually works... yeah

Thx Bandy. hahaha

Last edited by navair2; 01/18/12 12:37 AM.

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#3498637 - 01/19/12 11:24 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: Feathered_IV]  
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Originally Posted By: Feathered_IV
I shot myself in the crotch with the flare pistol. Didn't end well.


Never underestimate the effect of a flare gun in the wrong place wink When I did my military service I sent a guy up on hill one night to fire a flare... Heard a bang and a scream but did not see the flare go up. Then the whole hill lit up. When we got there we realized he had shot himself in the leg with the flare gun while holding it against the knee to be able to cock it with his frozen fingers, and then "slipped" the hammer before locking it and off the gun went. Nasty business - the whole knee was messed up. They picked him up with a helicopter and we never saw him again...

#3499140 - 01/20/12 01:37 PM Re: The first aerial victory with the handgun ? [Re: schwip]  
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Copterdrvr Offline
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When I was on active duty, a flare was considered good way to destroy an aircraft that had to be abandoned and I believe that was a pretty common way to "finish off" a crashlanded airplane in WWII. All metal aircraft.

Fairly confident that a flare would light off an airplane made out of canvas, wood, dope and a tank full of the modern equivalent of car fuel preeeeeeeeeeeeeeety easily !!! biggrin

copter


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