This thread summarizes grapical issues people have had with the sim. My hope is to summarize these issues along with their known fixes or workarounds.

Fixes solve the problem without a loss of image quality.
Workarounds alleviate the problem at the expense of image quality.


Issue #1: Gridlines in the water
CAUSE: Windows XP, Anti-aliasing, "Low Level Noise Mapping" and "Sparkling Water" enabled

FIX: Run Windows 98
FIX: For nVidia GeForce users, run Forceware 56.72 or detonators 30.xx or earlier (old drivers available at www.guru3d.com )
FIX: For ATI users, run Catalyst drivers 4.1 or higher and enable antialiasing
FIX: For ATI users, run a program called Radlinker and use it to control the sim's graphics settings. (see notes below)
WORKAROUND: For nVidia users, disable Anti-aliasing and run detonators 43.45, 44.03, or 45.23.
WORKAROUND: For ATI users, disable anti-aliasing.
WORKAROUND: Uncheck "Low Level Noise Mapping" and "Sparkling Water" in the graphics options of the sim.


Issue #2: Slowdowns in Air-to-Air Master Mode
CAUSE: Windows XP, DirectX version equal or later to 9.0, ATI 9500/9700/9800-based video cards

FIX: Run Windows 98
FIX: for nVidia users, run DirectX version 8.1 or earlier.
FIX: for nVidia users, run 30.xx or 40.xx series detonators
WORKAROUND: disable Anti-aliasing
WORKAROUND: Don't use your Air-to-Air radar
WORKAROUND: Keep your HUD off-screen
WORKAROUND: Do a snap shot missle launch (i.e. turn on radar, lock, fire, turn off radar.
WORKAROUND: Do a "heads down" missile shot.


It should be noted that if you use DirectX 8.1 (or any DirectX less than 9.0b), you have certain security vulnerabilities that need to be corrected with the appropriate MS patch, which is discussed and is available at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms03-030.mspx


INFORMATION ABOUT USING DIRECTX BUSTER:
thread


RADLINKER NOTES:
Current versions of Radlinker do not solve the gridline problem. Furthermore, Radlinker is not compatible with ATI's catalyst control center. In order to gain the benefit Radlinker provides to the sim, you must run version 0908, available for download here .


Please feel free to correct and/or add information. I will add to the top post to keep things as accurate and up to date as possible.

Joe

Joe, no offense but some the so-called "fixes" you have listed are just not possible to do for most of us.
The question is not what to turn off to get things to work, but instead why so that the problem can be isolated and corrected.
Basically F18 was built for DX7 and not until the code is cracked or obtained will TSH or anyone else for that matter be able to update the F18 code to DX9.
Most of us cant run Win98 due to large HDD sizes which means we are limited to the NTFS file system with Win2000 or WinXP.
Some of us use Radeon 9xxx series cards which require DX9 and dont have drivers for older versions of DX.
Finally most of us use 1 PC for all of our gaming so in order to allow our other newer games and sims to work we must stay updated with DX9, Current Vid drivers, etc.

This is why many, including myself, have said that the way things are looking if you are truly serious about keeping F18 alive you will need to run a seperate system with older hardware and drivers to do so. All of the "fixes" you listed suggest just that and resemble a older system.

Dont take me the wrong way because I know your intentions are good, its just that many of us have been brainstorming these very issues for months and it all boils down to getting F18 updated to run on current hardware, which means we need that code.

The only "fix" that I know for the ATI card is:

(1) Run F18 at a higher res, with NO FSAA turn on.

(2) Do a snap shot missle launch. For example turn on Radar, lock, fire, turn off radar. OR
do a "heads down" missle shot.

I've opted for number 2, because I can get just enough FPS to control my aircraft with A-A on.
Your milage may very. Option 1 might be the most prefered.


I might play around with Rage 3d Tweek, to see if they have a hot key function to turn off FSAA on the fly. If they do, I might be able to rig a key combo with the Cougar so when you turn on the Air-Air, the FSAA goes off. Then once your done with Air-Air, you turn FSAA back on. I don't know if that is even possible, but I will look into it.

Semper Fi
Tatsu

What should be added to the above-described FIX is that the new 44.03 detonators also fix the problem, as long as FSAA is turned off (see Prophet's posts in the thread at http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=006905 ).

I refuse to go back to W9X.

If running a older system is a neccesity to run this sim, then so be it.

Yes, I know this is a DX7 game. I know it was optimized for Win98. I know people need newer drivers and DX versions for newer games. I am not telling people what to do; I am telling them how to do it. Basically, I am attempting to reduce the number of technical questions that pop up here constantly (no offense to anyone who asks them, especially Hornit's latest questions, as I have the utmost repect for him). he fixes listed are in fact fixes - they will "fix" the problem. If you choose not to use them, for whatever reason, that is your choice.

Running a dual boot with Win98 is not that much trouble if you do it right. Take an old lower capacity hard drive and keep it for only Win98 use with FAT32, or partition part of a larger drive.

Doc, what I've gathered is that there is no gridline problem as long as FSAA is off, no matter what drivers you use. Prophet said Later in the thread he says My conclusion is that the water grid is still there regardless of the driver version as long as FSAA is enabled.

Tatsu, does the slowdown only happen when your radar is operating (i.e. not on standby)? For example, can you launch an MSI-guided AMRAAM without the slowdown? Or does the problem occur whenever your radar is displayed on the MDI?

Definitely look into that. It sounds like something that might be very beneficial at a number of times.

Joe, I interpret Prophet's posts differently. I interpret them to mean that with detonators 30.xx or earlier, even with FSAA turned on, there is no water grid problem, and with 40 series drivers with FSAA turned on or turned off, the water grid problem is present, except, with the 44.03 drivers, the water grid problem is present if FSAA is not turned off but is not present if FSAA is turned off. Otherwise, your FIX that consists of "For nVidia GeForce users, run detonators 30.xx or earlier" doesn't make sense if, as you concluded, "the water grid is still there regardless of the driver version as long as FSAA is enabled," because if that's true, the water grid problem would still be there with the detonators 30.xx or earlier if FSAA is not turned off, so the FIX would not be to use detonators 30.xx or earlier, but would instead be to turn off FSAA.

Perhaps we need Prophet to clear this up.

The 30.xx series of Detonator drivers allowed the game to be run with FSAA (Full Scene Anti Aliasing) on without the grid problem on the ocean. The newer drivers, however, cause the ocean grid problem in Windows 2000 and XP.

If you want to use FSAA in the sim while using XP or 2000 do the following:

1-Set the sim to run in Win9x compatibility mode. This will solve part of the A to A slowdown, laggy cursors, etc.

2-Install a 30.xx version of the nVidia Detonators.

3-Adjust Anisotropic Filtering and FSAA to your liking and enjoy.

4-Optional: Use RivaTuner to further tweak the video

Now this works for my system which is based on a GeForce 3 Ti200, DirectX 9, and a 30.xx Series driver from http://www.guru3d.com/

I also use RivaTuner to tweak the video as it is a very powerful program. This "solution" is not ideal if you want to play more recent games unfortunately. It will run jf18, f4sp3, cfs2, cfs3, flanker2.5, eeah/eech, subcommand, silent hunter 2, opflash point, and several others. There may be some problems with DirectX 9 based games like enter the matrix. Mostly visual anomallies that you may be able to live with. Hope this helps.

A side note: Setting the Detonator 4x.xx series of drivers to application controlled FSAA actually sets the driver to 2X antialiasing. So some geforce cards exhibit the grid lines with FSAA appearing to be totally off when it actually is not. RivaTuner can shut off FSAA entirely and the newer drivers allow you to shut FSAA of entirely.

Another interesting point made is that the grid line anamoly is from the upper left corner of the screen where the screen text appears. The grids might be a LOD or mipmap issue with the overlay texture used to show the text on the screen. A graphics person might want to try and hunt down that texture and try to tweak it to essentially remove the grid. A discussion about this is in its infancy at the frug world board.

Later,
karaba

My mistake on the wording. I meant to say the water grid is still there regardless of what 40.xx series detonator you run. You are correct in thinking that the 30.xx drivers do not result in a grid.

It was my understanding that any 40.xx series driver only caused the grid if FSAA was enabled. If the grid is there regardless of FSAA setting, then I am mistaken. If the latter is the case, then of course the 44.03 drivers are very beneficial.

Joe,

I had grid issues with every 40.XX series driver that I tried until the new 44.03's. I believe that you are right though, that regardless of the detonator version used, once you were using anything beyond 31.40, you were going to get the grid, whether you were running FSAA or not.

Some of the drivers subsequent to 40.72, and prior to 44.03 may have not had the grid issue with FSAA turned off, but I wouldn't know as I gave up and settled on 31.40 after that point.

Can someone else confirm this?

So, from Prophet's last post, it sounds to me that up to and including 31.40, there is no grid problem whether FSAA is on or off, but beyond 31.40 up to and including 40.72, the grid problem is present whether FSAA is on or off. With 44.03, there is no grid problem when FSAA is off, but the grid problem is present when FSAA is on. Between 40.72 and 44.03 (not including 40.72 and 44.03), Prophet didn't do any testing, so he doesn't know whether or not the grid problem is present when FSAA is on with these drivers (although the grid problem is probably present when FSAA is on with these drivers, because the grid probem is present with 40.72 and with 44.03 when FSAA is on, so it would be reasonable to expect that the grid problem would also be present with the drivers between 40.72 and 44.03 when FSAA is on) or when FSAA is off with the drivers between 40.72 and 44.03 (it is not known whether the grid problem is present when FSAA is off with the drivers between 40.72 and 44.03, because although there is no grid problem with 44.03 when FSAA is off, the grid problem is present with 40.72 when FSAA is off, and Prophet didn't do any testing on the drivers between 40.72 and 44.03).

Edit (additional info): Apparently, according to Hornit's post below (from the thread at http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=006905 ), 43.45, like 44.03, works fine when FSAA is off:

what about all us ati radeon pro 9700 users?

Ummmmm...I guess you guys are fu@cked.

No...seriously though, how do the Radeon's work if you have FSAA off? Do you still get the A2A slowdown and the water grid issue?

yes on the water grid, no on the aa slowdown. but man, with fsaaon, this games just looks soooo sweet.

For Radeon users, I believe the water grid pattern exists regardless of whether FSAA is on or not.

LM

Ok, good info guys. Top post updated with the latest.

well, theres always LOMAC. lol

Gonna miss carrier ops though

Joe,
I get the slowdown as soon as I turn on the air to air radar. However, I can still control the plane it's just slower. So what I do is turn on the radar, lock, fire, and turn off the radar. I get a hit in both the aim 9 and aim120 training missions that way and the slow down is only for a few secs.

Tatsu

I dont think this issue is related to the radar at least it doesnt appear that way on my system. You can have the radar on constant and just pan away from your hud and the FPS jump up. I'm pretty sure it has to do with the HUD when using FSAA and not the radar. If it was the radar then you could shut radar off and you would also see the slowdown in A/G mode as well.
If you load up a flight with a clean loadout (no missles) and go to A/A mode the issue disappears. If you load up just a couple of Aim9s or a couple of AIM120s then as soon as you go into A/A mode the issue appears again.
I am confident it has to do with the hud symbology for your missles in the HUD itself and how that interacts with your FSAA.

Try this: load up just the standard runway takeoff training mission with 2 AIM9m missles and go to A/A mode. once airborne fire off both missles while never leaving A/A mode and I guarrentee that as soon as your missles are off the rails and you are now clean your FPS will jump up to normal. Radar on or off will not matter.

Folks:

Not at all sure why, but on my system I can run FSAA at 2x without the grid problem. But with AA at 4x or above get multiple problems, including corrupted or blurred fonts in cockpit.

This is with 44.03 drivers on a GeForce4 Ti4200. But also with the 4X.XX drivers generally. Curious, no?

There have been issues with 2x FSAA in some of the 40.xx series drivers not working. i.e. there is actually no AA at the 2x setting, which would result in no gridlines. Do you actually see an IQ improvement with no grildines and 2x FSAA?

FAQ updated with the fact the the new ATI cat 3.6 drivers no longer display gridlines as per this post. Can somebody confirm?

Am running XP - Radeon 9000 with latest drivers for all. Eliminated Grid lines and A2A Radar frame freezes by... Setting Radeon card Anti-Aliasing to "application default" and de-selecting Jane's F/A 18 "low level mapping". After messing with all drivers, changing video cards etc. this suprisingly simple fix worked,

That is confirmed Joe.. must have FSAA enabled though. Still a slow down in Air to Air.

Tatsu

Very strange that disabling AA fixes the grid for nVidia users and enabling fixes it for ATI users...
graphics drivers are screwy.

Joe,
still motoring along in Win98 grid and A-A slowdown free

For additional information pertaining to this thread, see the following post from the thread at http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=007145 :

Check out the post below from the thread at http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46971 :

Joe:

Just caught your reply to mine, a few posts back up the thread.

I think you're right. I've tried both of the most recent NVidia drivers sets (43.45 and 44.03, from memory), and my impression is 2X FSAA is doing nothing much all round. Doesn't matter what I do with RviaTuner, either. I had thought this was game-specific.

So yes, it may be no-gridlines because no AA.

The posts below from the thread at http://oldsite.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=007530 may be of some help:

I'm bumping this, as it seems people are still missing it.

I have added the info about Radlinker to the top post.

Ok, who gave Joe the opener for this can of worms?? hehe! :p

Excellent FAQ Joe. Your timming for this is great since my PC is being made and soon to be had.. So, if I was to get win 98, 30.xx drivers from http://www.guru3d.com for my ti4600, Run DirectX version 8.1, turn off AA, the sim should work good? Have a 20" monitor and fresnels lens and plan to run 1600 x 1200. Anything else I should know? Getting a seperate HD for F-18 since my main use for it will be the Hornet. Thanks for the detailed F.A.Q.

It should be noted that if you use DirectX 8.1 (or any DirectX less than 9.0b), you have certain security vulnerabilities that need to be corrected with the appropriate MS patch, which is discussed and is available at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-030.asp and which is discussed in more detail and is also available at http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=819696 .

Sounds good. It's been a while, but I beleive you can even enable AA with those drivers without any negative effects. It might blur your fonts enough that they will not be legible enough, since they will already be small at 16x12.

For ATI Radeon (9700 Pro and possibly other 9X00) users (Catalyst 4.1 and possibly other versions):

Joe, Giff and others have mentioned all this earlier in the thread. I'm just trying to consolidate the info and links a little.

1) If you are experiencing gridelines, you can use Radlinker to get rid of them; (here is a link to instructions that may help you download and use it).

2) While AntiAliasing does a beautiful job of getting rid of the "jaggies" (and ocean gridlines), its use, IMO, is much less important if you use one of the higher resolutions available with the TSH v1.0 addon (and Radlinker). While a resolution of 1600x1200 is available, I humbly recommend using 1024x768 or 1280x960 as this eliminates much of the "jaggies" while still allowing the HUD to be of a readable size, IF you use the Large HUD Font Fix, (downloadable here )

OK, lots of tweaks and stuff here that is supposed to "FIX" poor graphics. BUT, just changing to Nvidia GeForce4 TI4200 from ATI 9000 Pro fixed EVERYTHING for me. OK again, here is my system:

P4 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 40 GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive, Win XP Home, Nvidia GeForce4 TI4200 128 MB. Works perfectly. Substitute ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 128 MB, works like crap.

AND my Sony laptop with P4M 2.8 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 40 GB 5400 RPM Hard Drive, Win XP Home, Nvidia GeForce4 420 Go. Works perfectly.

Tell me what I am missing. ATI is crap.

hawk

Since I wrote this FAQ, I have upgraded from Win98 to WinXP (with a new system), and then I moved from a nVidia Ti 4200 to a Radeon 9800 Pro.

In a few weeks (hopefully by late May) I will go through the FAQ steps with both brands of cards to verify everything myself. Until then, things will have to wait. They tell me I'm graduating in a few weeks (imagine that), so I'm a little busy until school is over.

Congratulations on your upcoming graduation, Joe!

Note that the URL for the Website at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-030.asp in the above posts has been changed and is now http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms03-030.mspx .

OK, finish my Iran campaign and 'upgraded' to win XP. Naturally, the sim won't run, or even make an effort to start. So I guess I'll be bumping this thread, and studying it thoroughly this weekend.

Ripcord

Ripcord,

I'd reinstall the video drivers (if you haven't already), backup your janes folder and reinstall the game with the patch and TSH add-ons. I had to do this when I upgraded my mobo and even when I tried the last vid card.

I just purchased a Radeon 9700 so I'll be going through this process again I'm sure...

Hey Creeper,

While all of you on the East coast are piling out to the parking lot on a Friday evening after work, getting ready for the long weekend, I'm here on a rainy Saturday am in the Far East doing guess what -- downloading NVIDIA drivers.

Yep. Did the search of the forum, and came to the conclusion that this had to be the problem. I went with the NTFS install of Win XP the other day, so the drivers I had wouldn't work. Downloading new ones now.

Will let you know when I'm back in the stack, getting ready to commence.

Ripcord

Ah man, this forum has once again saved my bacon.

One thing that might be important to note for some who need things spelled out (like me): when you run that patch, there appears a little folder next to your regular F-18 folder. This contains a brand new F-18.exe file that must be copied over to your regular F-18 folder. I've had to do that in the past, out of frustration, thinking I'd screwed the installation process, but it appears this is correct procedure -- somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, just 5 minutes ago I was getting that error message saying that my system was closing this program, sorry for the inconvienence. Problem solved.

I am back.

Ripcord.

Allright, I'm back. Testing will commence over the weekend with a Ti 4200 and a Radeon 9800 Pro, using various drivers, setting, etc., just to confirm everything.

FAQ updated.

I spent the weekend running through various scenarios. A few things of note:

- The new nVidia Forceware, version 56.72, allows the use of FSAA yet does not cause gridlines.
- ATI catalyst version 4.1 seems to have the same effect as 3.6; gridlines disappear with FSAA enabled.
- I could not duplicate the reported beneficial effects of Radlinker. I acheived identical results using Radlinker and simply using "normal" methods of setting graphics options. Information on Radlinker has been removed from the first post until someone can demonstrate what I may have done wrong.
- A-A slowdown is not as bad with nVidia cards as it is with ATI cards. Unfortunately, only the 50.xx drivers seem to cause the slowdown, preventing their use to eliminate the gridlines.

So, it appears the best choice (i.e. playing with the highest image quality possible) for JF-18 under Windows XP with DX9 would require an nVidia card with 30.xx drivers. This allows Sparkling Water / Low Level Noise to be on, all levels of FSAA, and no A-A slowdown. Alternatively you can use DX8.1 and use 50.xx Forceware.

The simplest choice for an ATI user is to use cat 3.6 or 4.1 and to disable Sparkling Water / Low Level Noise and enable FSAA. The slowdown is present under both DX8.1 and DX9 with ATI hardware.

comments welcome

can u force antialiasing and antiostropic filtering in the game without getting stuttering in air to air mode?

ATI is most definately not crap, by the way.

OK, enough of the ATI/NVIDIA stoush, blokes. Never got anyone anywhere...

Another tentative FA18 update for GeForce users. The 6X.XX series of beta drivers seem to have no noticeable slowdown in AA radar mode on my old GeForce4 Ti4200. And run OK with AAx2 without gridlines.

Note that there are no official WHQL 6X.XX drivers yet. But heaps of beta or unofficial ones at Guru of 3D etc. I personally recommend 60.72, from my experience, but as you know 'mileage may vary' (kilometreage?)

The 6X.XX drivers are designed for the 6XXX series of cards. I find they work fine on the 4200, and others have reported similar findings (on other games) with other 4XXX series cards. For reasons I don't understand, the FX series don't seem to like the new drivers so much. Or so they say.

Hope this helps.

Joe,

OT: Congrats on your graduation!

On Topic: FYI, I took the plunge and bought an ATI 9700 and am running new 4.6 catalyst drivers. I get the grid lines (and HUD messages) in the water with sparkling water and low level noise ON. With them both OFF I'm ok. I have not tried the FSAA option yet but I will try it and edit this post. My specs in my sig.

FSAA will not get rid of gridlines with cat 4.6 drivers. I tested it yesterday. With 3.6 or 4.1, FSAA will get rid of gridlines.

Joe - Give me your advice on my setup then - for running Jane's FA-18....

I have a Win XP (Home) 1.6ghz, 640 RAM - Ti-4200ASUS 128 RAM video card - I am running DX8.1 and I am using Nivida Drivers 56.72

What should have my settings at to help with performance?

Thanks

You can probably crank up the graphics options and FSAA with that card, as you are most likely CPU-limited. There's not much you can do to improve the performance with that CPU, so just live with what you have, which shouldn't be too bad.

I've noticed on my briefing maps in the mission planner, that they are usually bugged. The terrain is messed up, divided into disporportional triangles, some blacked out. Other times, it doesn't show terrain. The terrain will be distorted and divided into the wrong scale of squares. Any fixes?

I've heard of (and seen) the map going completely black, but never corruption like that. All I can suggest is restarting the sim.

Talon,
I've had the same thing happen to the map. The only workaround I've found is to move the map left, right, up or down, or resize it. It's a bit of a nuisance, but I guess you get used to it.

O.K. how about this for a new can of worms? Will Win98 support USB devices?

It sure will. Make sure you have any critical updates from Microsoft.

What does this have to do with graphics?

Hi there:
Well, I am one of those who had graphical probems with ATI 9800 pro, cat4.10 dr1vers and water problems in XP as many others. First posted a thread in Frugals world and there I get an answer of JuJu man. Well I followed all his advices and read this FAQ but no joy. What ever I do and tweek, with or without Radlinker, I had to disable the "Sparkling Water"and "Level Noise Mapping" to run F18 more or less normal.
Because I have dual boot, I decide to install FA18 under win98SE and that did the trick.
Graphic on max, res 1024*768 and absolutley no problems with game anymore. The only thing was the clean installation. It is not as complicated as F4 falcon but must be done right. So here is what I did.
Download:
a. HIBall cockpit update
b. K@OS Cougar file and F18key.INI
c. TSHv1H1.exe (Hi res.)
d. F/A18 Nocd exe
e. F/A 18_101F update

1. Install F/A 18
2. Install the FA18_up101F
3. Backup Ncape/Object folder
4. Install the HiBall cockpit (extract files in Ncape/Object folder)
5. Replace the F18.ini by the NO_CD FA18.exe
6. Rename the F18key.INI in F18key.old
7. Copy the K@OS F18keys.ini in the FA18 folder
8. Rename the F18MISC.INI in the Recource folder to F18MISC.old
9. Copy the K@OS F18MISC.INI in the Recource folder
10. Install TSHv1H1.exe
11. Open TSH installer and tac all you want, hit apply
12. Run FA18
13. Go to Options
13. Go to Control
14. Select K@OS TM Cougar
15. Go back to the Main screen
16. Select Tools
17. Select Pilot / Squadron edit
18. Create new pilot

Take off.
This is about it, except if you do not have a cougar, drop all the K@OS related steps.
It seems, that ATI will not resolve this problem because all the ati drivers up to now has this graphical problem in XP.
Happy flying
Nicolaas

Nico,
Which version of Catalyst drivers are you using with Win98?

I'm using cat 4.9 for win 98 se. To be commplete:
wme-7-99-98-1-040712a-016504e.exe. 19.454kb. date 24-9-2004. They run wonderful good.
No crashes, no conflicts.
Nicolaas

As per discussion @ Frugals , and at the request of Doc (@TSH) who asked me to post this here (edited here for context):

If there is any kind of issue re: XP (which i do not believe is a problem), it would be the NTFS formated Hard Drives vrs FAT32 formatted. I wouldn't be at all surprised if most people simply aren't aware of the difference, or how to varify, and they just run the install over NTFS formatted HDs - some experience probs - depends on specific hard/software configs, especially video/sound cards and dll's.

It was pointed out to me a few years back, when XP first came out, that if i intend to play older games, that i should keep a hard drive formatted in FAT 32 so that these games can run properly. Jane's is one of them, and unless the actual game is supported by NTFS as indicated on the case, you should be looking at installing XP on a FAT 32 formatted HD, and all non NTFS suported games on same HD.

XP users have been using this standard Jane's F/A-18 install proceedure (which i developed on comms with more people than i can count, before writing it out) for two years with no complaints.

Slightly older ATI cards produced some probs, but work arounds are available in this thread - 'Sparling water etc....

nVidia was always awesome with no workarounds needed - just set to application controlled and away you go.

I would suggest you use nvidia's 56.72 dlls at the latest; or the current windows signed - but not the newest at nvidia.

Hope this helps.

Oh, you'll find a pretty good post on F/A-18 installs for XP users at Hardcoresims.com , Jane's F/A-18 Forum, Installing...

Top post updated with the fact that sparkling water can remain on without water grid. The FAQ now only states to uncheck "low level noise mapping". I've been meaning to do this for a while.

Here's a request - can someone with an X600/X700/X800 or 6600/6800 breifly confirm that these problems are still present on these cards?

Ah, never mind. With sparkling water on the grid is there, just only in a few places. Doesnt really matter, anyway, as it has no visual effect without low level noise on as well.

Is the following the solution to the Radeon-&-gridlines-on-water-A/A-slowdown problem:

From http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=80223 :

Probably so; I've been meaning to check out older versions of Radlinker and see what happened. The fact that I now know where to download an older version that is specifically waiting for me because it works with JF-18 gridlines is fantastic.

There is another problem, however. ATI has recently switched their video settings application over to something called the Catalyst Control Center (CCC). Right now it is possible to use the CCC or the old catalyst control panel to set graphics options, but eventually there will only be the CCC. Currently, the CCC is incomaptible with the latest version of Radlinker, and 3D apps will result in a BSOD if radlinker is installed.

This weekend I will install the older version of Radlinker posted at Frugal's and see if it works with the CCC. If not, I will uninstall the CCC, and then see what happens with the gridlines. If is turns out it is necessary to not use the CCC in this case, it will just add another line to the long list of things necessary to get JF-18 working with Radeon video cards.

Joe, do you think think that the above solution should be added to your first post in this thread?

As soon as I check it out myself I'll add it.

Roger.

Can someone explain #'s 3 and 4 above? What shortcut? Where is the "DX page"? I can't find either. I installed the prog and rebooted, but still don't understand.

- If you don't have a JF-18 shortcut on your desktop, create one. Ensure that is starts JF-18 normally.
- Install Radlinker. Ensure that you can access it's options by opening your advanced display properties and making sure the Radlinker tab exists.
- Go back to your desktop and right click in the JF-18 shortcut. Select "create Radlink".
- There should now be a new shortcut on your desktop; this is the Radlink.
- Delete the original shortcut so you don't confuse yourself.
- Right click on the Radlink and select "Properties".
- Set graphics options as above (the "DirectX page" is one of the tab in the properties window).

Joe, have you had a chance to check out the following from http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=80223 in order to determine whether or not it can be added to your first post in this thread?

Thanks to the above recipe, everything was working great for me with Radlinker 0908 and my ATI 9700 Pro. Then, I upgraded to SP2 and an ATI X800 card. Now Radlinker 0908 doesn't run and I'm back to flat, non-sparkling water.
(Newer versions of Radlinker will run, but they don't solve the gridline problem like 0908 did).

Yeah, I tested Radlinker 0908 with ATI Catalyst 4.12, and it doen't work for me either.

Regardless, I have incorporated Radlinker information into the first post.

Joe,

This thread could always use a bump...

FYI I posted a question to one of the ATI Catalyst programmers on the hexus.net forums about addressing issues with Jane's F/A-18 (not that this hasn't probably been done before). Anyway, nothing shockingly new to report but I thought I'd share the response I received.

My Q is here .

Andrzej's response is here and here . He has good things to say about the F/A-18 community nonetheless.

bump

I might of found a way around the problem with the FPS getting low when you slect wepons and they display on the HUD. I enabled 8xS Antialiasing and 16x Anisotropic filtering. That solved the problem for me. Game runs very smooth now. Its kind of funny I figured it wouldn't run very good with these settings but I was wrong.

8xS antialiasing tells me you have an nVidia card - which card, and which drivers? The slowdwon in much worse on ATI hardware.

Antialiasing usually causes the A-A slowdown. Are you saying that enabling antialiasing made your slowdown go away, or that specifically enabling 8xS antialising made your slowdown go away?

I have a Nvidia 6800 GT with the 67.03 drivers. Im running the sim on windows XP. I started with 2x aa and that had problems. I then said what the heck, lets crank everything up. That seemed to solve my problems for now. So Im saying that enabling 8xS aa and 16x af made the slow down go away for me.

Wow.

Can someone else give this a shot?

bump

No-go for me. Am running an ATI AIW 9700 Pro. I don't recall nVidia users having any graphical issues....

No Go here. Dopped the FPS about 20 and screwed up the text. :rolleyes: Last night thought I did some major testing of all graphic options and should post results for people on my FAQ site some time today.

There is no such thing as 8xS antialiasing on an ATI card; it is a proprietary method of nVidia's.

I am asking for someone else with a 6800GT to see if 8xS AA eliminates the Air-to-Air slowdown. If it does, this would mean that it would be possible to run JF-18 on a piece of the latest and greatest hardware without reducing the image quality.

What are your thoughts regarding Tatsu's idea in his post below (from the thread at http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=008921 ):

I'll check it fer ya tonight Joe

OK Joe, just tried AA set to 8 and AF set to 16 no go here VERY stuttery. Put it back to application controlled and smooth as silk.

CHANGEING TO NEW VERSION OF DIRECTX WITH ATI INSTRUCTIONS;

When installing a new version of DirectX from your current version when running a ATI Radeon 9550 video card with Radlinker, you MUST do the following to keep your Air to Air fix and water grid fix;
1. Un-Install Radlinker.
2. Un-Install all graphic card drivers and control panels.
3. Re-Start
4. Install new version of DirectX ##.
5. Re-Start
6. Install graphic card drivers and control panel.
7. Re-Start
8. Install Radlinker and creat radlink to F-18E.
9. Re-Start
10. Set all graphic settings to personal preference.
11. Play Jane's F/A-18E!!

***These instructions have been tested and found true using the ATI RADEON 9550 256MB DDR graphics card. Use of these instructions for your own video card are your sole responsibility.***

WE HAVE STICKIES!!!

Glee!

Excellent! Stick other threads too so Recluse won't be grumpy old man anymore.

HEY!! I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK!!!

Recluse

http://kotinetti.suomi.net/esko.pohjoisaho/RadLinker0908.zip

Dear Sirs this link doesen't work...can anyone indicate
e where find the Readlink version 0908???

Best...

Gioc

Please, use the link in the top post. I keep that up to date and accurate, but cannot vouch for anything in the rest of the thread.
here

Is there even a version of Direct X 8 that works on XP? All the ones listed on the Direct X Downloads site are for pre-XP Windows.

People on the net are saying you can't revert back. Any ideas?

I beleive XP actually installs with DX8. It definitely works, no doubt about that. The reason DX8 for XP is rare for download is probably because everyone is just hosting the latest version.

Reverting back is not really an option. There is a program called DX Buster, but people have reported big problems using it to remove DX9. The only surefire way to remove a DX version is to reinstall Windows and install a lower numbered version. This revert you to the version that Windows shipped with, and you can never go lower than that.

Playing JF-18 with DirectX 9 is quite simple. YEs, you will miss some visual quality, but I think it is worth it to avoid the massive hassles of outdated DirectX and video driver versions.

I think Win XP Pro SP2 that I have installs 9 automatically. I think I remember during the later installation phase one of those information screens in Windows with DIRECTX 9 and espousing its benefits. Well, 98 should be here in a few days, so I'll be running Longbow Anthology and 18 in that on a partition.

Radlinker 0908 with ATi Catalyst 5.7 doesn't work.

I recently found my old copy of JF-18 and it worked right of the box.
WinXP, DX90c, nVidia Forceware 77.72 drivers. I play with 2xQ FSAA enabled and have no water gridlines nor AA master mod stuttering.
I wish the engine sounds are better in the game, are there some replacement sounds on the web?

Only problem now: the hud fonts are unreadable, hopefully TSH finishes their font mod soon, the beta mod doesnt work for me.

BTW going from 4x to 2xQ FSAA also fixed the "no-mouse-in-cockpit" problem for F4:AF. With 4x FSAA falcon doesnt even start.

Welcome back, Thrawn.

SoundManager, SoundPackager, and F18SoundData (as well as soundpacks of sounds) are available for JF/A-18 and JF-15 at http://tsh.war-fighters.net/?tshmain=download&download=addon . IIRC there are presently no engine sounds available, but, if you want, you can create them yourself using SoundManager, SoundPackager, and F18SoundData.

FYI, the Hud Font fix is to make them a tad bigger only, it wont fix the bluriness caused by the anti-aliasing.

I've experienced "lag" during offline play. Can anybody help me ?
The FPS is very good on my P4 2.6Ghz + 512Mb Ram + 128Mb FX5200 system. Only the response in the sim seems to delay by 1 or 2 secs. This is annoying me so much.

Thanks in advance.

What response? The response to your controller or keyboard inputs?

Hi Joe,

The responses to all 3 devices -- keyboard, joystick and mouse (I have no TrackIR, but I believe the problem would probably occur on it too).

It seems to be graphics problem. Because, the response is worst when using "F8" to view around the aircraft, also when heading down on massive targets. Sounds like insufficient RAM problem but, I don't think so. The FPS is very good everywhere in the sim, and around one year ago, I used GeForce4MX and the sim ran very fine, with slightly lower FPS than present.

thank you.

Don't know what to tell you, Bright_sky...

Perhaps a complete uninstall/reinstall as described in the TSH install guide ?

Thanks Joe, I had uninstalled/reinstalled the sim 2 times, before I posted my problem. The sim is still laggy anyway.

Hi Joe,

By searching through the forum, I found it's not only me that experienced this kind of problem...

http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=006752

http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=32;t=007845

The second link is very interesting to me. Its last post said something about removing graphic card control panel.

Yeah, the only thing that my FX5200 has but GF4 MX hasn't is GCCP.

I may give it a try, and update the result afterward.

Bright_sky, did you do the uninstall/reinstall exactly as described in the TSH Install Guide at http://tsh.war-fighters.net/install/ (i.e., doing everything the guide says to do)?

Yes Doc. Those pages look technical and reasonable, so I kept them as a browsable copy in my hard drive. I exactly followed the instructions on those pages in those 2 times I mentioned (scandisk and defragment were actually done in the second time only, as I had formatted the hard disk before installing JF18 in the first time due to having too many spy wares)

My current installation is just JF18+1.01F+TSHV1.0
I'm also looking forward to installing more add-ons.

Sorry that I didn't give you guys more information regarding my workarounds at first.

Roger.

Bright_Sky, are you using Windows XP? Launch the game. Once in the main menu screen, Alt+Tab out of the game (I leave a folder window open to Alt+Tab into). Then press Ctrl+Alt+Delete. Go to the "Processes" tab. Hit the top of the "Image Name" colum to alphabitize names. Find F-18.exe. Right click it and select "set priority>NORMAL". MUST be NORMAL. Windows will ask you if you're sure - say yes. Go back to the game, all delays should be gone.

I think someone did a small patch of some sort to solve this "priority" issue, not sure what it's called.

It is called PriorityF18, and can be downloaded here . TSHv3 will include a check box to enable/disable Normal priority.

Hi cdelucia / Joe,

Thanks for your help.
I'm using WinXP with SP2.

Actually, the problem can also be solved by changing program compatibility mode to Win98 (still delayed in Win2000 mode).

FYI, i'm using the detonator 44.03's and 2x antialiasing, 8xAF and textures sharpening and get NO grid lines in the water.

Joe said:
"Issue #1: Gridlines in the water
CAUSE: Windows XP, Anti-aliasing, "Low Level Noise Mapping" and "Sparkling Water" enabled

FIX: Run Windows 98
FIX: For nVidia GeForce users, run Forceware 56.72 or detonators 30.xx or earlier (old drivers available at http://www.guru3d.com)
FIX: For ATI users, run Catalyst drivers 4.1 or higher and enable antialiasing
FIX: For ATI users, run a program called Radlinker and use it to control the sim's graphics settings. (see notes below)
WORKAROUND: For nVidia users, disable Anti-aliasing and run detonators 43.45, 44.03, or 45.23.
WORKAROUND: For ATI users, disable anti-aliasing.
WORKAROUND: Uncheck "Low Level Noise Mapping" and "Sparkling Water" in the graphics options of the sim."

I am running Windows XP Professional Edition SP2 and I have ATI 9600XT 128 MB. I used ATI Omegadriver. I tried this "fixes", it turned nice.
If you guys had ATI and Nvidia card, access to this website:
http://www.omegadrivers.net.

Erawan (Erick)

I'm runnin the game on WinXP Home SP1, No problems at all. I just installed it, and away I went, didnt have to use any compatiability modes at all. The TSH packs really enhance the game. Now I just wish I could run it at 1280x768, the native res of my 17" widescreen. 1024x768 looks good, but I want Higher dangit!!! LOL

IMHO Janes F/A-18 was the last decent Naval flightsim that I've played, I havent heard of any but does anybody know if there are any good newer ones???

BTW. Sys Specs if it helps anybody:
AMD XP 2500+
1gb Ram
evga GF-6800GT 256mb
WinXP Home SP1

Guys,
I switched my video card from Sapphire ATI 9600XT 128 MB DDR AGP to BFG GeForce 7800GS OC 256 MB GDDR3 AGP. It is awesome I can setup all on high setting. I played JF-18 yesterday, it was awesome. I can't wait to played it on my day off.

Just for info, I installed Fa-18+TSHv3 under Windows XP64, ATI X800GTO2 using the 6.3 XP64 drivers.

The sea tiles were comical - thick borders, very light textures filling to dark as the view rotated, plus the text of all radio messages 'written' on the sea surface.

I have FSAA/AF set to application controlled, so having read this thread I forced both to 4X with good results. There is still a thin dark gridline but I can live with that if more tweaking doesnt remove it.
No apparent slow-down in air-to-air, but need more testing to be sure.

Had to reduce resolution to 10x7 to get readable HUD fonts ..... maybe I need a bigger monitor...

Cheers,
Keith

Hello folks, I am using an ATI X1300 and was also experiencing the AA slowdown. I found a work around that in AA mode is very smooth just like in any other mode. Here is what I have set up for the ATI card using the Catalyst Control Center:

Anti-aliasing to application managed
Anisotropic filtering to appliction managed

Open GL settings:
Tripple Buffering to ON
Force 24 bit Z buffer depth to ON

In Game grapics selection:
Sparkling Water to ON
Low Mip Mapping to OFF

My operating system is XP home SP2

This done the trick for me and I hope it helps out my fellow ATI users.

Later,

Orion

I am sorry to tell you this, but you haven't done a work around. Your first item of "change" you posted is this "Anti-aliasing to application managed" that doesn't have AA On, it in fact keeps it Off unless the sim asks for it, which it does not. So really, you just turned AA off, and yes, that will get you no slow-down. Sorry bud PS, This game is D3D Only, OpenGL has no effect here.

**Also posted in main thread**

Hi, I use the eDimensional 3D glasses and experience the slowdown mentioned here when in 3D Stereo Mode and in A/A mode. I do NOT experience it when the 3D effect is temporarily switched OFF.

I know that could be a sort of workaround but it just ruins the Effect. Is there a Possible fix for 3D and this slowdown TSH??

I also when looking back at the Wing under the canopy both Right & Left side looking back I see graphic gliches, the Wing Part under the canapy looks enlarged and doubled hard to explain but it isnt right. when I switch Off the 3D effect the Wing Part looks normal.

It is more under the Front part of the wing under the canapy then goes into the wing it is deformed and a Part of the wing is down the length of the outside of the wing under the canapy seperate from the plane wing??

I have read about these kinds of Glitches in 3D and TSH would have to correct it. As I am Probally one of the Very Few Who still use the 3D glasses I would really appreciate a possible fix for this, it is Not a Game ruiner but annoying as the game looks really cool in 3D.


EDIT: I can take a Picture of it in 3d and you can see what I am talking about as it is kinda hard to Describe and I probally didnt explain it well

My Specs:

Pentium 4 3.06Ghz HT
1.25gb PC2700
eVGA Geforce 7800GS CO 256mb
Audigy2 ZS
Win XP Pro SP2

I also tried in Win 98 compatability mode that didnt work.

I am using the 91.31 Drivers & 91.31 Stereo Drivers that is all I can use.

THNX
-Gerald

I know DirectZ has parameters you can change to correct some anomolies when in 3D stereo. Perhaps eDimensional's drivers have something like that. If you've got a GeForce and you like FA-18, I highly recommend you look into getting an eMagin Z800. You should be able to get NVideo-based stereo and you'll have mouse-based headtracking. I have an ATI card, so there's only like one title I have that will run in stereo 3D.

After many years absence i've returned to F/A18 and was looking forward to enjoying it in its latest incarnation...
I've install up to TSH3 and have it running happily on my system.
I was encountering the Gridlines issue but have solved it by turning off sparkling water and low level Noise Mapping.
Unfortunately I am also experiencing the AA Radar slowdown and don't know how to fix this...I have tried turning FSAA to "let application decide" in the ATI Catalyst drivers but am still suffering from the problem.
I am running Windows XP 2, DX9 & an ATI X1600 with catalyst 6.14 drivers is there a workaround I can use?
many thanks...

Setting AA to "let application decide" should do the trick... Are you sure you don't have it enabled in an F18-specific driver profile?

Thanks for that...problem solved!
I suspect this might not be the last of the RTFM! posts I add to the F/A18 Forum while i'm getting back into it!
Wicked job on the TSH upgrades BTW...Thanks for keeping this sim alive!

EDIT: Here is a Pic it is NOT in Stereo so it Doesnt look as bad but I hope you get the idea:

you guys are way to technical for my retard ass. I just wanna fly and kill some #%&*$#.

BLAH

Blud

Bueller!! Bueller!!

Sorry, I'm not sure what TSH could do...

NP THNX for Letting me know!!!

Well after ALL this Time I finally Solved my Issue. Basically I just turned Down the convergence and Increased the Seperation a lil and the wing took the correct Shape..Finally

I was testing the WideView pit on my new Rig and 45" Screen WOW does it look GREAT!! THNX ALL this is still a FINE SIm one of the bes.t Hopefully they are still flying it on HL??


I still get the A-A slowdown in A-A mode and with the 3D ENabled but if the 3D is Off I dont experience said Slowdown, Wierd??



EDIT: I Finally Fixed the A-A slowdown while in 3D, I DL'd DXTweaker that comes with the One Click Installe All is well No mre switching from 3d Mode to 2D Mode COOL

moved

Hey Joe, weird thing with the new version of TSH4 that graphical glich with the wing is gone now. But I have a host of other problems like the A-A Banding with 3D ENabled again, that was fixed before with the directx tweaker but not with the new version of TSH????

I also get some sort of Projector video display problems, upon starting F-18 I have to hit on the Proj. remote, vid 2 input then input 1 to get the video working and same thing upon going into the Sim and exiting to the menu very annoyin any idea as to what would cause that, I had set the Rez in the manager to same as desktop and at 1024 x 768 like my desktop is anyway but no good same problem with the input getting pooched??