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#348727 - 04/22/04 01:46 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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'Doc' Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe:
Since I wrote this FAQ, I have upgraded from Win98 to WinXP (with a new system), and then I moved from a nVidia Ti 4200 to a Radeon 9800 Pro.

In a few weeks (hopefully by late May) I will go through the FAQ steps with both brands of cards to verify everything myself. Until then, things will have to wait. They tell me I'm graduating in a few weeks (imagine that), so I'm a little busy until school is over.
Congratulations on your upcoming graduation, Joe! \:\)


'Doc' (aka '195th_Doc')
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#348728 - 05/08/04 02:18 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Quote:
Originally posted by Joe:
Ok, as we all know there have been many many posts here relating to grapichal issues people have had with the sim. My hope is to summarize these issues along with their known fixes or workarounds.

Fixes solve the problem without a loss of image quality.
Workarounds alleviate the problem at the expense of image quality.


Issue #1: Gridlines in the water
CAUSE: Windows XP, Anti-aliasing, "Sparkling Water" and "Low Level Noise Mapping" enabled

FIX: Run Windows 98
FIX: For nVidia GeForce users, run detonators 30.xx or earlier (old drivers available at http://www.guru3d.com)
FIX: For ATI users, run Catalyst drivers 3.6 and enable antialiasing
FIX: For ATI users, use a program called Radlinker to set your graphics preferences.
WORKAROUND: For nVidia users, disable Anti-aliasing and run detonators 43.45 or 44.03.
WORKAROUND: For ATI users, disable anti-aliasing.
WORKAROUND: Uncheck "Sparkling Water" and "Low Level Noise Mapping" in the graphics options of the game.

Issue #2: Slowdowns in Air-to-Air Master Mode
CAUSE: Windows XP, DirectX version equal or later to 9.0, ATI 9500/9700/9800-based video cards

FIX: for nVidia users, run DirectX version 8.1 or earlier
FIX: for nVidia users, run Windows 98
WORKAROUND: disable Anti-aliasing
WORKAROUND: Don't use your Air-to-Air radar :rolleyes:
WORKAROUND: Keep your HUD off-screen :rolleyes:
WORKAROUND: Do a snap shot missle launch. For example turn on Radar, lock, fire, turn off radar.
WORKAROUND: Do a "heads down" missle shot.


It should be noted that if you use DirectX 8.1 (or any DirectX less than 9.0b), you have certain security vulnerabilities that need to be corrected with the appropriate MS patch, which is discussed and is available at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-030.asp and which is discussed in more detail and is also available at http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=819696

Please feel free to correct and/or add information. I will add to the top post to keep things as accurate and up to date as possible.

Joe
Quote:
Originally posted by 'Doc':
It should be noted that if you use DirectX 8.1 (or any DirectX less than 9.0b), you have certain security vulnerabilities that need to be corrected with the appropriate MS patch, which is discussed and is available at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-030.asp and which is discussed in more detail and is also available at http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=819696 .
Note that the URL for the Website at http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/security/bulletin/MS03-030.asp in the above posts has been changed and is now http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms03-030.mspx .


'Doc' (aka '195th_Doc')
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#348729 - 05/27/04 08:50 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Ripcord Offline
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OK, finish my Iran campaign and 'upgraded' to win XP. Naturally, the sim won't run, or even make an effort to start. So I guess I'll be bumping this thread, and studying it thoroughly this weekend.

Ripcord


USN/USMC -- when it positively, absolutely has to be blown up overnight.
#348730 - 05/28/04 04:57 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Ripcord,

I'd reinstall the video drivers (if you haven't already), backup your janes folder and reinstall the game with the patch and TSH add-ons. I had to do this when I upgraded my mobo and even when I tried the last vid card.

I just purchased a Radeon 9700 so I'll be going through this process again I'm sure...


AMD 2500, ABIT NF7 mobo, 1024MB PC3200 DDR RAM, 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro (Cat 5.13 w/radlinker) WinXP SP2, Thrustmaster Fox 2 Pro joystick, Logitech MOMO FF wheel, Hauppauge PVR-150, TrackIR 3 Pro.
#348731 - 05/28/04 10:36 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Ripcord Offline
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Hey Creeper,

While all of you on the East coast are piling out to the parking lot on a Friday evening after work, getting ready for the long weekend, I'm here on a rainy Saturday am in the Far East doing guess what -- downloading NVIDIA drivers.

Yep. Did the search of the forum, and came to the conclusion that this had to be the problem. I went with the NTFS install of Win XP the other day, so the drivers I had wouldn't work. Downloading new ones now.

Will let you know when I'm back in the stack, getting ready to commence.

Ripcord


USN/USMC -- when it positively, absolutely has to be blown up overnight.
#348732 - 05/29/04 04:54 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Ripcord Offline
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Ah man, this forum has once again saved my bacon.

One thing that might be important to note for some who need things spelled out (like me): when you run that patch, there appears a little folder next to your regular F-18 folder. This contains a brand new F-18.exe file that must be copied over to your regular F-18 folder. I've had to do that in the past, out of frustration, thinking I'd screwed the installation process, but it appears this is correct procedure -- somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, just 5 minutes ago I was getting that error message saying that my system was closing this program, sorry for the inconvienence. Problem solved.

I am back.

Ripcord.


USN/USMC -- when it positively, absolutely has to be blown up overnight.
#348733 - 06/12/04 02:52 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Joe Offline
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Allright, I'm back. Testing will commence over the weekend with a Ti 4200 and a Radeon 9800 Pro, using various drivers, setting, etc., just to confirm everything.

#348734 - 06/14/04 02:35 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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FAQ updated.

I spent the weekend running through various scenarios. A few things of note:

- The new nVidia Forceware, version 56.72, allows the use of FSAA yet does not cause gridlines.
- ATI catalyst version 4.1 seems to have the same effect as 3.6; gridlines disappear with FSAA enabled.
- I could not duplicate the reported beneficial effects of Radlinker. I acheived identical results using Radlinker and simply using "normal" methods of setting graphics options. Information on Radlinker has been removed from the first post until someone can demonstrate what I may have done wrong.
- A-A slowdown is not as bad with nVidia cards as it is with ATI cards. Unfortunately, only the 50.xx drivers seem to cause the slowdown, preventing their use to eliminate the gridlines.

So, it appears the best choice (i.e. playing with the highest image quality possible) for JF-18 under Windows XP with DX9 would require an nVidia card with 30.xx drivers. This allows Sparkling Water / Low Level Noise to be on, all levels of FSAA, and no A-A slowdown. Alternatively you can use DX8.1 and use 50.xx Forceware.

The simplest choice for an ATI user is to use cat 3.6 or 4.1 and to disable Sparkling Water / Low Level Noise and enable FSAA. The slowdown is present under both DX8.1 and DX9 with ATI hardware.

comments welcome

#348735 - 06/14/04 02:39 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Quote:
Originally posted by greyskr:
OK, lots of tweaks and stuff here that is supposed to "FIX" poor graphics. BUT, just changing to Nvidia GeForce4 TI4200 from ATI 9000 Pro fixed EVERYTHING for me. OK again, here is my system:

P4 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, 40 GB 7200 RPM Hard Drive, Win XP Home, Nvidia GeForce4 TI4200 128 MB. Works perfectly. Substitute ATI Radeon 9000 Pro 128 MB, works like crap.


AND my Sony laptop with P4M 2.8 GHz, 512 MB RAM, 40 GB 5400 RPM Hard Drive, Win XP Home, Nvidia GeForce4 420 Go. Works perfectly.

Tell me what I am missing. ATI is crap.

hawk
can u force antialiasing and antiostropic filtering in the game without getting stuttering in air to air mode?

ATI is most definately not crap, by the way.


Mobo ASUS MAXIMUS IV EXTREME (REV 3.0)
Memory CORSAIR XMS3 8GB DDR3
GPU 2 EVGA 680 FTW 4GB
CPU Intel Core i7-2600K Sandy Bridge 3.4GHz (3.8GHz)
Drives 2 HITACHI Deskstar 3TB 2 Crucial 256 GB SSD Displays 3 HP ZR30w 30" monitors
UPS Cyberpower PP2200SW
PSU Antec High Current Pro HCP-1200 1200W
Case COOLER MASTER CM Storm Trooper
Drive LITE-ON Black 12X Blu-ray
CPU cooler Noctua 6 Dual Heatpipe
Fans COOLER MASTER SickleFlow 120
OS Windows 7 Premium
#348736 - 06/14/04 02:48 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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OK, enough of the ATI/NVIDIA stoush, blokes. Never got anyone anywhere...

Another tentative FA18 update for GeForce users. The 6X.XX series of beta drivers seem to have no noticeable slowdown in AA radar mode on my old GeForce4 Ti4200. And run OK with AAx2 without gridlines.

Note that there are no official WHQL 6X.XX drivers yet. But heaps of beta or unofficial ones at Guru of 3D etc. I personally recommend 60.72, from my experience, but as you know 'mileage may vary' (kilometreage?)

The 6X.XX drivers are designed for the 6XXX series of cards. I find they work fine on the 4200, and others have reported similar findings (on other games) with other 4XXX series cards. For reasons I don't understand, the FX series don't seem to like the new drivers so much. Or so they say.

Hope this helps.


"Wait until you see the whites of his eyes."
Sailor Malan, 'Ten of My Rules for Air Fighting', no. 1
#348737 - 06/14/04 07:57 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Joe,

OT: Congrats on your graduation!

On Topic: FYI, I took the plunge and bought an ATI 9700 and am running new 4.6 catalyst drivers. I get the grid lines (and HUD messages) in the water with sparkling water and low level noise ON. With them both OFF I'm ok. I have not tried the FSAA option yet but I will try it and edit this post. My specs in my sig.


AMD 2500, ABIT NF7 mobo, 1024MB PC3200 DDR RAM, 128MB Radeon 9800 Pro (Cat 5.13 w/radlinker) WinXP SP2, Thrustmaster Fox 2 Pro joystick, Logitech MOMO FF wheel, Hauppauge PVR-150, TrackIR 3 Pro.
#348738 - 06/14/04 08:18 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Joe Offline
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FSAA will not get rid of gridlines with cat 4.6 drivers. I tested it yesterday. With 3.6 or 4.1, FSAA will get rid of gridlines.

#348739 - 06/15/04 04:00 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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meade95 Offline
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Joe - Give me your advice on my setup then - for running Jane's FA-18....

I have a Win XP (Home) 1.6ghz, 640 RAM - Ti-4200ASUS 128 RAM video card - I am running DX8.1 and I am using Nivida Drivers 56.72

What should have my settings at to help with performance?

Thanks

#348740 - 06/15/04 02:26 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Joe Offline
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You can probably crank up the graphics options and FSAA with that card, as you are most likely CPU-limited. There's not much you can do to improve the performance with that CPU, so just live with what you have, which shouldn't be too bad.

#348741 - 06/17/04 09:04 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  

**DONOTDELETE**
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I've noticed on my briefing maps in the mission planner, that they are usually bugged. The terrain is messed up, divided into disporportional triangles, some blacked out. Other times, it doesn't show terrain. The terrain will be distorted and divided into the wrong scale of squares. Any fixes?

#348742 - 06/17/04 10:49 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Joe Offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lord-Talon:
I've noticed on my briefing maps in the mission planner, that they are usually bugged. The terrain is messed up, divided into disporportional triangles, some blacked out. Other times, it doesn't show terrain. The terrain will be distorted and divided into the wrong scale of squares. Any fixes?
I've heard of (and seen) the map going completely black, but never corruption like that. All I can suggest is restarting the sim.

#348743 - 06/18/04 12:50 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Talon,
I've had the same thing happen to the map. The only workaround I've found is to move the map left, right, up or down, or resize it. It's a bit of a nuisance, but I guess you get used to it.

#348744 - 09/30/04 11:48 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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vmann Offline
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O.K. how about this for a new can of worms? Will Win98 support USB devices?


Athlon X2 4800+, Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe, 2Gb OCZ PC4000 EB Plat, 74G 10k WD Raptor, 2 X Leadtek 7900GTX, Audigy 2 Zs, SeaSonic 600W PSU, Windows XP Home, CH Products Fighterstick, Pro Throttle, Pro Pedals USB.
#348745 - 10/01/04 04:11 AM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Joe Offline
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It sure will. Make sure you have any critical updates from Microsoft.

What does this have to do with graphics?

#348746 - 10/27/04 07:16 PM Re: FAQ for graphics issues - last update 1/30/05  
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Nicolaas Offline
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Netherlands
Hi there:
Well, I am one of those who had graphical probems with ATI 9800 pro, cat4.10 dr1vers and water problems in XP as many others. First posted a thread in Frugals world and there I get an answer of JuJu man. Well I followed all his advices and read this FAQ but no joy. What ever I do and tweek, with or without Radlinker, I had to disable the "Sparkling Water"and "Level Noise Mapping" to run F18 more or less normal.
Because I have dual boot, I decide to install FA18 under win98SE and that did the trick.
Graphic on max, res 1024*768 and absolutley no problems with game anymore. The only thing was the clean installation. It is not as complicated as F4 falcon but must be done right. So here is what I did.
Download:
a. HIBall cockpit update
b. K@OS Cougar file and F18key.INI
c. TSHv1H1.exe (Hi res.)
d. F/A18 Nocd exe
e. F/A 18_101F update

1. Install F/A 18
2. Install the FA18_up101F
3. Backup Ncape/Object folder
4. Install the HiBall cockpit (extract files in Ncape/Object folder)
5. Replace the F18.ini by the NO_CD FA18.exe
6. Rename the F18key.INI in F18key.old
7. Copy the K@OS F18keys.ini in the FA18 folder
8. Rename the F18MISC.INI in the Recource folder to F18MISC.old
9. Copy the K@OS F18MISC.INI in the Recource folder
10. Install TSHv1H1.exe
11. Open TSH installer and tac all you want, hit apply
12. Run FA18
13. Go to Options
13. Go to Control
14. Select K@OS TM Cougar
15. Go back to the Main screen
16. Select Tools
17. Select Pilot / Squadron edit
18. Create new pilot

Take off.
This is about it, except if you do not have a cougar, drop all the K@OS related steps.
It seems, that ATI will not resolve this problem because all the ati drivers up to now has this graphical problem in XP.
Happy flying
Nicolaas


Nicolaas
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