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#3480309 - 12/24/11 12:20 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Chivas, how do we even know if the sequel will have fixed these issues? they have had 8 months so far and have fixed nothing of note.

And where has this "something fantastic but i cant tell you" gone? remember that? the same place the 2d clouds, 50% performance, sli fixed, AI reworked, radio commands, FM looked at, DM looked at have gone im betting.

Oleg and his IL2 team was one thing, Luthier and his are not the same Chivas.


I have no idea if all the issues will be fixed. All I know is the developer is working on it, and there are no other developers doing it. Everyone including the developer are well aware of the problems, so it doesn't matter to me if its Oleg or Luthier, its the programmers they hire that must get the job done. If they don't the sim will fail, constantly moaning doesn't change anything. I will let out a huge moan if the development fails, then move on. Constantly predicting its failure and driving away customers that could keep the sim afloat is a self fulfilling prophecy

Last edited by Chivas; 12/24/11 12:24 AM.

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#3480317 - 12/24/11 12:29 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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BKHZ_Furbs Offline
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Of course moaning doesnt change anything! im venting! i can moan my arse off in here then go and sit with the mrs or chat with my kids. i only think about CLOD or anything to do with the computer when im sitting here smile
Just like i dont take anything you or anyone else here says personal, i hope nobody takes anything i say personal.

Chivas, i always like to hear your opinion even if i dont agree with it.

Merry Christmas!

Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 12/24/11 12:30 AM.
#3480328 - 12/24/11 12:41 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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godzilla1985 Offline
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With all due respect while what was said about CFS, Rowans BoB and Microprose's EAW is basically true but also true is that all these titles were from companies on thier way out of the combat flight sim business. I did not think OMG is in that same boat as these companies, so those comparisions are somewhat iffy in my view. I know a lot of people gagged when the suggestion was first made, but maybe CLoD should have followed RoF business model. Looking back now it doesn't look like such bad ideal. When I first got CLoD and seen the panzers in the loading screen I really wondered what the heck that was about and it's relevence to the BoB? I fully understand now.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3480352 - 12/24/11 01:23 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Bumfluff Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Chivas, how do we even know if the sequel will have fixed these issues? they have had 8 months so far and have fixed nothing of note.

And where has this "something fantastic but i cant tell you" gone? remember that? the same place the 2d clouds, 50% performance, sli fixed, AI reworked, radio commands, FM looked at, DM looked at have gone im betting.

Oleg and his IL2 team was one thing, Luthier and his are not the same Chivas.


Agree . The major issue for me here is one of integrity.

I understand luthier was brought in to clean up the CloD mess after Oleg went missing in action and I have sympathy for him on that front.

But to my mind the new developers have been deliberately deceptive about the direction of this sim even since release. Why would anyone believe their word that BOM will ever even be released? Given their past track record I cannot.

And the suggestion they were doing us a favor by giving "support" 7 months after release - what utter nonsense. They could make that argument if the game was even close to being finished on release.

Absolutely infuriating.

#3480366 - 12/24/11 01:39 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Chivas Offline
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Chivas  Offline
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B.C. Canada
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Of course moaning doesnt change anything! im venting! i can moan my arse off in here then go and sit with the mrs or chat with my kids. i only think about CLOD or anything to do with the computer when im sitting here smile
Just like i dont take anything you or anyone else here says personal, i hope nobody takes anything i say personal.

Chivas, i always like to hear your opinion even if i dont agree with it.

Merry Xmas!


Merry Christmas Furbs


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#3480370 - 12/24/11 01:51 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Bumfluff]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: nick10
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Chivas, how do we even know if the sequel will have fixed these issues? they have had 8 months so far and have fixed nothing of note.

And where has this "something fantastic but i cant tell you" gone? remember that? the same place the 2d clouds, 50% performance, sli fixed, AI reworked, radio commands, FM looked at, DM looked at have gone im betting.

Oleg and his IL2 team was one thing, Luthier and his are not the same Chivas.


Agree . The major issue for me here is one of integrity.

I understand luthier was brought in to clean up the CloD mess after Oleg went missing in action and I have sympathy for him on that front.

But to my mind the new developers have been deliberately deceptive about the direction of this sim even since release. Why would anyone believe their word that BOM will ever even be released? Given their past track record I cannot.

And the suggestion they were doing us a favor by giving "support" 7 months after release - what utter nonsense. They could make that argument if the game was even close to being finished on release.

Absolutely infuriating.



They have to be deliberately deceptive because everything they've said in the past was taken as a PROMISE, and they're not sure themselves which features will make the cut and which won't. I do agree that Luthiers comment about working for free to fix bugs and unworking features, was not well thought out. It appears the pressure of finishing COD and the Sequel, has Luthier even more pissed than usual. Although if I were him I would told us all to piss off and found a job in more lucrative software development like Oleg did.


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#3480393 - 12/24/11 03:17 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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WynnTTr Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Chivas, how do we even know if the sequel will have fixed these issues? they have had 8 months so far and have fixed nothing of note.

And where has this "something fantastic but i cant tell you" gone? remember that? the same place the 2d clouds, 50% performance, sli fixed, AI reworked, radio commands, FM looked at, DM looked at have gone im betting.

Oleg and his IL2 team was one thing, Luthier and his are not the same Chivas.


Agreed. I was a staunch supporter of CloD in the early days arguing against the haters. Now I've been burned and denied and still waiting. I'd be a vocal hater if I let it bother me but it's not worth it for just a game. Entertainment is to relieve stress not add more so I just make myself /shrug and vow never to trust Luthier or anything he might bring out again without backup comments from the community vouching for him.

#3480450 - 12/24/11 06:10 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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robmypro Offline
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I won't be buying any sequel. That is my only recourse. Oh well.

#3480689 - 12/24/11 07:02 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Buddye1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs


Oleg and his IL2 team was one thing, Luthier and his are not the same Chivas.



I agree that the Luthier team has skill issues and they must have lost the software knowledge of COD. After 8 months of stuggling to understand and try to fix the COD issues, problems , and promised capabilites, the progress has been rather poor, imho. I suspect that Luthier had a significant turnover in his knowledgable and skilled programmers. His new hires just can not deliver in a short time frame. I has been my experience when programmers do not understand code they will recommend a re-disign/re-code.

Luthier's plan to move to a new game in a longer term plan could buy him the time to get well, if he can keep his customer base.


Last edited by Buddye1; 12/24/11 07:04 PM.

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#3480698 - 12/24/11 07:39 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Buddye1]  
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Chivas Offline
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Chivas  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Buddye1
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs


Oleg and his IL2 team was one thing, Luthier and his are not the same Chivas.



I agree that the Luthier team has skill issues and they must have lost the software knowledge of COD. After 8 months of stuggling to understand and try to fix the COD issues, problems , and promised capabilites, the progress has been rather poor, imho. I suspect that Luthier had a significant turnover in his knowledgable and skilled programmers. His new hires just can not deliver in a short time frame. I has been my experience when programmers do not understand code they will recommend a re-disign/re-code.

Luthier's plan to move to a new game in a longer term plan could buy him the time to get well, if he can keep his customer base.



Obviously some of Olegs team couldn't get the job done if Luthier had to hire a few new people to rewrite some of the Code. They've hired someone to rewrite the sound engine, and someone new to fix the AI, not sure if they've hired someone new while fixing the graphic engine. Personally I think Oleg's Code was a combination of being too complex for todays computers, and not written well enough to be highly optimized.


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#3480705 - 12/24/11 07:53 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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Lurker_71 Offline
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I sure won't be buying BoM at premium price, if at all. By the way, I would like to congratulate the IL2 team on their aptitude in picking great names to call their products that shorten to peculiar acronyms. First they gave us a "clod," and now a "bom." I can't imagine what's next clapping

#3480741 - 12/24/11 09:02 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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msalama Offline
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Quote:
when programmers do not understand code they will recommend a re-disign/re-code.


And then, this indeed often is the best and most economical way with a bloated, badly programmed and undocumented legacy app someone ran away from sigh No idea what happened at Chez Luthier though, but whatever it was I'm pretty sure it's closely related to such a happenstance still.

Anyway, I do hope they get their scheisse together. Ain't nobody winning if they don't.

#3480749 - 12/24/11 09:19 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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Simbo_Sim123 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Lurker_71
I sure won't be buying BoM at premium price, if at all. By the way, I would like to congratulate the IL2 team on their aptitude in picking great names to call their products that shorten to peculiar acronyms. First they gave us a "clod," and now a "bom." I can't imagine what's next clapping


Transfer Underwhelming Repeating Data

TURD


Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra m�d,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.
Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra m�r yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.
#3480754 - 12/24/11 09:31 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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Pudfark Offline
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I think that it will be more of BM than a BOM....
Anyway....as I see it?
Two things need changing...their code and their business practices...
Hope Santa brings both to them.


If CloD were an Ere_tile Dysfunction med?
Nobody would "get off" the ground.
Further, 14 months after "taking it"?
The duct tape and splint patch ain't very fun.
So, what ya got now?
A bunch of folks sporting a male member, that looks like a "skinned squirrel".
#3481835 - 12/27/11 07:04 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Simbo_Sim123]  
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Logan Offline
Head Tater peeler
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Originally Posted By: Simbo 123 SQDN
Originally Posted By: Lurker_71
I sure won't be buying BoM at premium price, if at all. By the way, I would like to congratulate the IL2 team on their aptitude in picking great names to call their products that shorten to peculiar acronyms. First they gave us a "clod," and now a "bom." I can't imagine what's next clapping


Transfer Underwhelming Repeating Data

TURD

biggrin good one,
how about, Chase Respective Aircraft Profusely
CRAP


Logan,
Head Tater peeler,OIC of nothing
#3481966 - 12/27/11 02:11 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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KRT_Bong Offline
It's KRT not Kurt
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I read some of the comments here and elsewhere on the forums and sometimes I just have to say WTF, I understand the frustration with getting something you paid for and not having any success with it but like I have stated before I don't have a problem running it but maybe my tweaking skills are better than I think. I have Black Shark, I say this because originally it was supposed to integrate Lock-On: Flaming Cliffs and A-10 Warthog together, somewhere along the way the developer said this isn't going to work, it should look better, but we're stuck with this really old game code and it could be better but were going to have to abandon the old title to do it. So now there is Black Shark 2 and it really isn't a lot of money, I probably won't purchase it because I can't see myself actually getting the hang of the KA-52 but I might get Warthog, maybe. No sweat, I'm not angry, they didn't make me any promises and they don't owe me an apology although I'm sure in their forums it probably sounded a lot like it does here and they probably explained why they had to do it and naturally some will cry foul but that's the way it goes. I see people acting like children with outburst of angry "I'll never buy another thing from them, and you shouldn't either" and that is just ridiculous, sometimes I think all of this belongs in the PWEC.


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#3481971 - 12/27/11 02:22 PM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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bisher Offline
I'll be your Huckleberry
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lol well the whiners might be running out of whines. They seem to be pissed about the acronyms at this point.

#3482360 - 12/28/11 12:36 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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falstaff Offline
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Here's my handy pocket translation guide to Luthier's post:

Quote:
I see that these answers led some folks here, and most of the folks on my favorite sukhoi.ru, to read between the lines and see my answers to specific questions as indications of larger-scale abandonment of the project.


People are reaching conclusions I have not allowed for, and do not like. Never mind that previous statements allow these conclusions to be reached fairly easily, and vagueness is all.

The large-scale abandonment is a red-herring-straw-target. Sounds good, draws the argument off-topic.

Quote:
I answered specific questions and didn't touch on the larger effort.


I didn't save myself a lot of mis-interpretation by answering the questions succintly and precisely the first-time round. Maybe I would have saved myself all these pesky mis-understandings. Oh well. Language barrier, maybe, and all that.

Quote:
It remains the same. Sped up graphics, launcher errors, improved FM, etc, all of that is in progress as previously stated.


It remains the same. What remains the same? Oh I dunno, *it*....as previously stated.

Quote:
We are trying to pull off a very difficult balancing act with developing a new game and supporting an old one at the same time.


Please have some sympathy for us. We are trying to fix a broken product at the same time as moving onto something that hopefully works, and is lucrative. We dont know yet how much effort will continue on the old one. We'll see.

Quote:
Pretty much no one does that.


So we're being very good to you people. Extremely good. Be grateful. because we're unqique and different and generous. Not like those all those other nasty developers. Never mind the fact that countless flight-sim devs have supported their games post-release for the last 20 years. Please ignore them. They're not like us. And, well, they haven't anyway. So there.

Quote:
Most large developers simply release games, support them for a month at the most, and then switch to new paid content regardless of the state of the game.


See above. We're the good guys. I wont name any of the bad guys. Suffice to say we're the good guys. On your side. Be grateful.

Quote:
We are however trying not only to patch up major issues, we're working on improving things that generally work - and we're doing that for free seven months after release. We are doing that by trying to parallel tasks as much as possible and improving CoD while developing a sequel.


Not only are we trying to fix our broken, tangled, partially developed and realised game, we are *also* (you lucky people, be grateful)
directing our very stretched resources towards the future, in ways that I cannot possible list here. Your heads might explode. It appears that vast majority would not understand the complexities involved. So I will not touch on them here. Suffice it to say it will be impressive. Please be patient, and please be grateful.

Quote:
That is however simply not possible with some features.


And it's best I do not tell you what those are, even if it does mean you may reach the wrong conclusions. Again.

Quote:
In some cases that's a question of limited resources. We cannot make a new flyable for CoD because that means one less flyable for the sequel. With other tasks it's simply a matter of time. Some of the changes we're making are so sweeping, they're scheduled to be completed very close to the sequel's ship date. The animation for example is such a huge task with so many facets that we can't just take it, turn it into a half a gig patch, and release it for CoD a month before the release of the sequel.


I do not understand my first sentence here. Oh well. Some of the changes are so sweeping, I cannot explain them myself. Not yet, anyway. Please wait. And please be grateful.

Quote:
And to make sure to drive my main point across.


If only I knew what, exactly, it was.

Quote:
We are still working on improving CoD.


We are hoping to make the initial release into a semblance of the game that was advertised. I have left this extremely vague so people may once again reach the wrong conclusions. Then I can tell them off again.

Quote:
No one's abandoned it. There will be patches. My answers about things in the sequel were meant for those specific features. Please don't try to read between the lines!"


Please do not reach conclusions that I do not wish you to reach, and that may adversely affect publicity, sand therefore sales revenue, for the sequel.

Happy Christmas. I hope you enjoyed the turkey.

Ben

#3482365 - 12/28/11 12:40 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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falstaff Offline
Member
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Bisher...that's ok, the fanboys might be running out of fans... smile

Ben

#3482367 - 12/28/11 12:43 AM Re: Friday update, Dec 23 [Re: Lurker_71]  
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BKHZ_Furbs Offline
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Falstaff, one day i would like to buy you a pint.

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