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#3474798 - 12/15/11 08:09 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Kankkis]  
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Think of the Japanese soldier still fighting in the forest long after the war has finished, and the outcome known.

Yes, it's optimistic, and sure, it's an act of loyalty and good faith - but it's also ever so slightly bonkers.

As is the endless, endless deferral of 'let's wait and see'.

Where we are now is just about slightly ok, not great, but just about holding-on. To paint it as a platform for optimism, and/or celebration is nuts.

As usual with this game, it's a semi-unfathomable mess of interpretation and counter-interpretations, and invited guesswork.

You just never know where the heck you are. This gets quite tiring in itself after a while.

It is hands-down the best headache-sim out there.

Ben

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#3474854 - 12/15/11 09:11 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: falstaff]  
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Originally Posted By: falstaff
Think of the Japanese soldier still fighting in the forest long after the war has finished, and the outcome known.

Yes, it's optimistic, and sure, it's an act of loyalty and good faith - but it's also ever so slightly bonkers.

As is the endless, endless deferral of 'let's wait and see'.

Where we are now is just about slightly ok, not great, but just about holding-on. To paint it as a platform for optimism, and/or celebration is nuts.

As usual with this game, it's a semi-unfathomable mess of interpretation and counter-interpretations, and invited guesswork.

You just never know where the heck you are. This gets quite tiring in itself after a while.

It is hands-down the best headache-sim out there.

Ben


Funny.

As I've always said, I wouldn't have minded so much about the state of the game on release if they'd been honest about it.
I struggle to believe anything these guys say now unfortunately.

#3474870 - 12/15/11 09:32 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: falstaff]  
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bisher Offline
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Originally Posted By: falstaff

As is the endless, endless deferral of 'let's wait and see'.



Good point Ben why wait for offical word about the status of this game when we can speculate now.



#3474873 - 12/15/11 09:41 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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bisher Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
8 years waiting not enough?


Is eight years not enough for me personally Furbs, no, I'm still waiting. What about you?


#3474875 - 12/15/11 09:46 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Kankkis]  
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falstaff Offline
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I'm waiting to find out how long I should keep on waiting before I find out how long I should really wait smile

Most of the drama is uncertainty of one form or another...and much of that uncertainty is over whether a)The problems are being put right, and b) Whether the latest set of problems will be fully backwards compatible with the previous set of problems smile

Ben

#3474897 - 12/15/11 10:17 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Kankkis]  
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Bisher, i stopped playing after the last patch, i get crashes EVERY time i play after about 20 mins.
Add that to the dodgy FM, DM, sound cutting out, no coops, awful AI ive given up to be honest.
Will try again after the next patch when ever that comes out.

#3474980 - 12/16/11 12:39 AM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Bisher, i stopped playing after the last patch, i get crashes EVERY time i play after about 20 mins.to
Add that to the dodgy FM, DM, sound cutting out, no coops, awful AI ive given up to be honest.
Will try again after the next patch when ever that comes out.


Hi Furbs, getting crashes every 20 minutes or so sucks -- it was happening to me and a few others, too. I was at the point of shelving it -- it was too big a PITA and getting to be no fun. Turns out if you've been adding the beta patches (not to mention, Gawd forbid, the occasional mod!) and somewhere in the works something was getting corrupted......crash to desktop/screen freeze ups/16 year old daughter gets knocked up. All bad.

Cure: complete uninstall of CoD with a rusty coat hanger! Well, actually, the more usual Windows Control Panel Uninstall Programs method, after which just check back in C:/Progams(86)/Steam/Steam Apps/Common/ and make sure anything else "IL2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover" is deleted. Also check that the C:/Your Documents/Library/1C:,Softclub folder is deleted as well. Then open Steam and have it Reinstall Cliffs of Dover. I shyte you not; I was skeptical (not to mention that it's a PITA to do) -- but not only was CoD more stable, but frame rates were up, stutters were down......but my daughter's still preggers. frown

Sound cutouts online have been completely eliminated on this latest iteration. What some guys do when flying online is, after landing a mission, exit CoD, delete the Cache subfolder in the 1C: Softclub folder, then restart CoD again. (We have a shortcut .bat utility that shoots us back into the ATAG server quickly - courtesy of ATAG_Bliss - so it's actually pretty quick). We seem to avoid the dreaded launcher.exe error crashes that way, I haven't had one after literally dozens of hours flying online.

Offline play still sucks for the reasons you describe. Hope to see you, Bish, Ajay, and others on the ATAG server sometime. The immersion when using Teamspeak is awesome! smile

Last edited by ATAG_Snapper; 12/16/11 12:43 AM.

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#3475005 - 12/16/11 01:58 AM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Chivas]  
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Allaire Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
Originally Posted By: Chivas

They aren't rewriting the game engine for the sequel.

No they are rewriting the game engine for CloD to try and fix all the problems that the original release had.


Really?

Here is the newest communication from Luthier about the last patch, Luthier on patch v1.05.15950. Why would they be still be working on overhauling the engines for a game that has been out for 9 months unless is was terribly flawed on release? If it was just the graphics or the sound that needed reworking I wouldn't have said game, but since both needed good amounts of work it's basically a game engine overhaul.


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#3475048 - 12/16/11 03:27 AM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Allaire]  
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Originally Posted By: Allaire
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
Originally Posted By: Chivas

They aren't rewriting the game engine for the sequel.

No they are rewriting the game engine for CloD to try and fix all the problems that the original release had.


Really?

Here is the newest communication from Luthier about the last patch, Luthier on patch v1.05.15950. Why would they be still be working on overhauling the engines for a game that has been out for 9 months unless is was terribly flawed on release? If it was just the graphics or the sound that needed reworking I wouldn't have said game, but since both needed good amounts of work it's basically a game engine overhaul.


I've been following the development of SOW/COD for eight years and know all the released info. The sim was released before it was finished so there are countless problems. Yes they are rewriting the sound and graphics modules. They will also be adding and tweaking every other module, but like I said in previous posts, this doesn't mean the sequel will have a different game engine than COD. COD will be patched with the new sound, and graphics module, probably long before the release of the sequel {Battle for Moscow}. Each sequel will use the exact same game engine with only a different map.


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#3475181 - 12/16/11 10:42 AM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Chivas]  
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
Originally Posted By: Chivas

They aren't rewriting the game engine for the sequel.

No they are rewriting the game engine for CloD to try and fix all the problems that the original release had.


Really?

Here is the newest communication from Luthier about the last patch, Luthier on patch v1.05.15950. Why would they be still be working on overhauling the engines for a game that has been out for 9 months unless is was terribly flawed on release? If it was just the graphics or the sound that needed reworking I wouldn't have said game, but since both needed good amounts of work it's basically a game engine overhaul.


I've been following the development of SOW/COD for eight years and know all the released info. The sim was released before it was finished so there are countless problems. Yes they are rewriting the sound and graphics modules. They will also be adding and tweaking every other module, but like I said in previous posts, this doesn't mean the sequel will have a different game engine than COD. COD will be patched with the new sound, and graphics module, probably long before the release of the sequel {Battle for Moscow}. Each sequel will use the exact same game engine with only a different map.

Agree with the engine etc Chivas, but new games would also have to include new planes, new campaigns, and possibly dynamic campaigns also.


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#3475224 - 12/16/11 01:37 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Kankkis]  
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Allaire Offline
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I said nothing about BoM using a new engine I said that they are overhauling the CloD engine to try to get it stable for most computers and fix things that weren't done in time for release. Buddye1 made a statement based on his experience in software development in regards to the game engine. I responded with Ilya's own words regarding what they are working on to back up what I said.


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#3475373 - 12/16/11 06:06 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Allaire]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: Allaire
I said nothing about BoM using a new engine I said that they are overhauling the CloD engine to try to get it stable for most computers and fix things that weren't done in time for release. Buddye1 made a statement based on his experience in software development in regards to the game engine. I responded with Ilya's own words regarding what they are working on to back up what I said.


Buddye stated the developer was probably developing a new game engine that would leave COD unfinished. I replied that the team is updating the existing engine that will apply to COD aswell as the sequel.


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#3475387 - 12/16/11 06:22 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Chivas]  
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
I said nothing about BoM using a new engine I said that they are overhauling the CloD engine to try to get it stable for most computers and fix things that weren't done in time for release. Buddye1 made a statement based on his experience in software development in regards to the game engine. I responded with Ilya's own words regarding what they are working on to back up what I said.


Buddye stated the developer was probably developing a new game engine that would leave COD unfinished. I replied that the team is updating the existing engine that will apply to COD aswell as the sequel.


I think the big question which is still unclear is if you will have to do a merged install of the sequel to update a lot of fixes to the original CLOD. The devs have not stated anything definite on this issue and are being vague about it. Nobody knows for sure yet, and it is just speculation on both sides what they think will happen.


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#3475402 - 12/16/11 06:37 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Force10]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
I said nothing about BoM using a new engine I said that they are overhauling the CloD engine to try to get it stable for most computers and fix things that weren't done in time for release. Buddye1 made a statement based on his experience in software development in regards to the game engine. I responded with Ilya's own words regarding what they are working on to back up what I said.


Buddye stated the developer was probably developing a new game engine that would leave COD unfinished. I replied that the team is updating the existing engine that will apply to COD aswell as the sequel.


I think the big question which is still unclear is if you will have to do a merged install of the sequel to update a lot of fixes to the original CLOD. The devs have not stated anything definite on this issue and are being vague about it. Nobody knows for sure yet, and it is just speculation on both sides what they think will happen.


They have stated during the development that all sequels can be applied by the user in a standalone or merged configuration similiar to the last IL-2 series. This could have changed, but the developer hasn't stated that. Its highly unlikely but I suppose possible that the sequel could use a new game engine that won't be mergeable. I would say there is a five percent chance of that happening.


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#3475409 - 12/16/11 06:49 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Chivas]  
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Force10 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
I said nothing about BoM using a new engine I said that they are overhauling the CloD engine to try to get it stable for most computers and fix things that weren't done in time for release. Buddye1 made a statement based on his experience in software development in regards to the game engine. I responded with Ilya's own words regarding what they are working on to back up what I said.


Buddye stated the developer was probably developing a new game engine that would leave COD unfinished. I replied that the team is updating the existing engine that will apply to COD aswell as the sequel.


I think the big question which is still unclear is if you will have to do a merged install of the sequel to update a lot of fixes to the original CLOD. The devs have not stated anything definite on this issue and are being vague about it. Nobody knows for sure yet, and it is just speculation on both sides what they think will happen.


They have stated during the development that all sequels can be applied by the user in a standalone or merged configuration similiar to the last IL-2 series. This could have changed, but the developer hasn't stated that. Its highly unlikely but I suppose possible that the sequel could use a new game engine that won't be mergeable. I would say there is a five percent chance of that happening.


My question is if the new engine is mergeable, will it be available as a standalone patch for those who don't have the sequel.


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#3475418 - 12/16/11 07:17 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Force10]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Force10
Originally Posted By: Chivas
Originally Posted By: Allaire
I said nothing about BoM using a new engine I said that they are overhauling the CloD engine to try to get it stable for most computers and fix things that weren't done in time for release. Buddye1 made a statement based on his experience in software development in regards to the game engine. I responded with Ilya's own words regarding what they are working on to back up what I said.


Buddye stated the developer was probably developing a new game engine that would leave COD unfinished. I replied that the team is updating the existing engine that will apply to COD aswell as the sequel.


I think the big question which is still unclear is if you will have to do a merged install of the sequel to update a lot of fixes to the original CLOD. The devs have not stated anything definite on this issue and are being vague about it. Nobody knows for sure yet, and it is just speculation on both sides what they think will happen.


They have stated during the development that all sequels can be applied by the user in a standalone or merged configuration similiar to the last IL-2 series. This could have changed, but the developer hasn't stated that. Its highly unlikely but I suppose possible that the sequel could use a new game engine that won't be mergeable. I would say there is a five percent chance of that happening.


My question is if the new engine is mergeable, will it be available as a standalone patch for those who don't have the sequel.


It would be a huge mistake by the developer not to make a patch available to those that don't intend to buy the sequel, as they could be more inclined later with other sequels. The developer has stated we should be pissed at the unfinished state of the sim, and I'm sure they would go out of there way to help correct the situation. Now is not the time to alienate even a small percentage of the community who would not buy the sequel for several reasons. The developer isn't stupid, and is made up of WW2 aircombat sim enthusiats.


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#3475446 - 12/16/11 08:07 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Kankkis]  
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I stand by my experience. No matter what approach and how modular two systems (two games old and new) may be planned, the developer still has two systems. Even systems with different data (maps, A/C, missions, campaigns, etc) will have different issues and problems. The old system is not free and issues and problems will have to be analyzed and investigated using skilled programmers. Problems/issues will occur on the old system and not the new system and the other way around as well. I do not believe that the COD/BOM software management team has the money, skills, or manpower to fully support two released systems effectively. They will need to reduce support and try a force the Players to purchase the new system.

In addition, to update COD during BOM development will result in many issues and problems on COD and not on the BOM system. Again, assigning manpower to build, integrate, test, and investigate/fix issues/problems on the old COD systems will hurt tyhe new development.

Management will do everything possible to offer new features and fixes to convince players to step up and purchase the new and much better BOM game. I can not think of a better plan if I was in charge of COD and had limited money, manpower and skills.

Last edited by Buddye1; 12/16/11 08:10 PM.

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#3475450 - 12/16/11 08:11 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: Kankkis]  
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Chivas, do you really think Luthier is going to finish CLOD?

#3475528 - 12/16/11 10:38 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: ATAG_Snapper]  
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Originally Posted By: ATAG_Snapper
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Bisher, i stopped playing after the last patch, i get crashes EVERY time i play after about 20 mins.to
Add that to the dodgy FM, DM, sound cutting out, no coops, awful AI ive given up to be honest.
Will try again after the next patch when ever that comes out.


Hi Furbs, getting crashes every 20 minutes or so sucks -- it was happening to me and a few others, too. I was at the point of shelving it -- it was too big a PITA and getting to be no fun. Turns out if you've been adding the beta patches (not to mention, Gawd forbid, the occasional mod!) and somewhere in the works something was getting corrupted......crash to desktop/screen freeze ups/16 year old daughter gets knocked up. All bad.

Cure: complete uninstall of CoD with a rusty coat hanger! Well, actually, the more usual Windows Control Panel Uninstall Programs method, after which just check back in C:/Progams(86)/Steam/Steam Apps/Common/ and make sure anything else "IL2 Sturmovik Cliffs of Dover" is deleted. Also check that the C:/Your Documents/Library/1C:,Softclub folder is deleted as well. Then open Steam and have it Reinstall Cliffs of Dover. I shyte you not; I was skeptical (not to mention that it's a PITA to do) -- but not only was CoD more stable, but frame rates were up, stutters were down......but my daughter's still preggers. frown

Sound cutouts online have been completely eliminated on this latest iteration. What some guys do when flying online is, after landing a mission, exit CoD, delete the Cache subfolder in the 1C: Softclub folder, then restart CoD again. (We have a shortcut .bat utility that shoots us back into the ATAG server quickly - courtesy of ATAG_Bliss - so it's actually pretty quick). We seem to avoid the dreaded launcher.exe error crashes that way, I haven't had one after literally dozens of hours flying online.





Offline play still sucks for the reasons you describe. Hope to see you, Bish, Ajay, and others on the ATAG server sometime. The immersion when using Teamspeak is awesome! smile




Cheers Snapper, i will give that a go when the next patch comes out. smile

Last edited by BKHZ_Furbs; 12/16/11 10:52 PM.
#3475531 - 12/16/11 10:42 PM Re: New friday update is up. [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
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Chivas Offline
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Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
Chivas, do you really think Luthier is going to finish CLOD?


I don't know if they have the manpower to further develop the COD campaigns, but patches in the next year should allow for easier use of Triggers for modders to build very complex campaigns for any theater, including COD. Everything else, AI, Commands, FM, DM, Graphic, Sound, etc etc is a function of the game engine, which will be in a continual state of updating and adding features, which will apply to all theaters, COD, BfM, The Med, The Pacific, etc. If you look at the game engine you will see that there are number of features that future proofs it to allow for control of ground vehicles, and ships, etc, which will make it possible to do a combined forces sim after all the theaters are complete.


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