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#3425280 - 11/04/11 04:19 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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Force10 Offline
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+1 for needing a dynamic campaign.

Some sims of the past that have had a dynamic campaign or semi-dynamic or just dynamic elements:

1. EF2000
2. Red Baron 3D
3. Bob 2
4. Falcon 4.0
5. Mig Alley
6. Enemy Engaged
7. Strike Fighters
8. IL-2
9. Rise of Flight

You can't argue that there is some fan favorites on that list and a big reason is the immersion factor.

You know what's missing from the DCS forums here? AAR reports from missions flown. The reason is because everyone is flying the same darn missions. How many ways can you tell the same story? If you look through the pages on the forums almost all have to do with questions about procedures and such. Part of the reason the almighty Falcon 4.0 DC was such a hassle was the limited CPU power that could be dedicated to it and created major headaches and is where a lot of the pain stemmed from. That shouldn't be a problem now. With technology where it is now the power should be in place to make the best DC ever, but Dev's don't make complete packages anymore. It probably would give the sim too much longevity, and that keeps people from shelling out money for new content every year.

(just my 2 cents that i'm sure will get picked apart)

Last edited by Force10; 11/04/11 04:45 AM.

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#3425373 - 11/04/11 09:29 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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bogusheadbox Offline
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Don't forget that IL2 had that brilliant SCORCHED EARTH Dynamic campaign.

Not dynamic in the sense that all flights are AI created, Dynamic in the sense you had 1 or more people on both sides setting all the flights. Think of it as battlefield commanders creatting and unfolding the war.

It was brilliant. Had all the benefits of asset tracking, attrition, resupply, downtime for repairs and refueling.. etc.

I think something like that would be the way to go for ED. No building a full AI dynamic campaign but having battlefield commander positions that can build and task flights (hopefully in real time) with all the befenits of asset tracking.

And IIRC (that means IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY greyghost wink ) ED were considering something along these lines some time back.

But back on topic....

Here is a question. If the next flyable is a strike fighter. Lets say an F-18..... how many would stop flying the hog ? Or do you think the hog will still have a dedicated place still in DCS? (of course it will depend on the missions created - but i am talking generally here)

Last edited by bogusheadbox; 11/04/11 09:32 AM.

Fighterops...

The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.

Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
#3425376 - 11/04/11 09:44 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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nadal Offline
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Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
Had all the benefits of asset tracking, attrition, resupply, downtime for repairs and refueling.. etc.

I think something like that would be the way to go for ED. No building a full AI dynamic campaign but having battlefield commander positions that can build and task flights (hopefully in real time) with all the befenits of asset tracking.


man, I would love to see that in DCS.. without exaggerating, I wont hesitate to pay more than 25dollars just for that.

Last edited by nadal; 11/04/11 09:46 AM.
#3425435 - 11/04/11 12:09 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: nadal]  
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bogusheadbox Offline
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Originally Posted By: nadal
man, I would love to see that in DCS.. without exaggerating, I wont hesitate to pay more than 25dollars just for that.


But how much would you have to pay in patching fees to bring all your flyables in line with it ?


Yes, i am on one and venting profusely


Fighterops...

The only TRUE Stealth crowd funded game.

Devs said there was stuff there, but you just couldn't see it.
#3425559 - 11/04/11 02:34 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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They aren't done considering it smile

Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
And IIRC (that means IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY greyghost wink ) ED were considering something along these lines some time back.


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#3425567 - 11/04/11 02:41 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: Airdrop01]  
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I'll try to put it as simply as I can (only to avoid reiterating a lot of stuff that has been said before):

It isn't that ED doesn't want to do a DC. It's more along the lines of this: It is a huge undertaking, and ED isn't willing to just drop everything and work on just a DC. So you can see piecemeal developments to increase playability. It isn't happening fast, but check it out: They're implemented a random mission generator, randomization capabilities within missions, etc.

In general, Falcon's DC has undergone a very long time of development, and allegedly was part of what sunk the original developer. LP doesn't seem to have made out like a bandit when they made F4AF either. The updates you get to falcon are done by volunteers - it isn't free, they pay for it with their own time, but you don't pay. It is also not really legal (At least AFAIK) since it's all based on code leaked a long time ago.

ED is a business, and they don't want to go under - so development of any kind of DC will happen on their schedule. Are they interested in the longevity of their game? Sure - but not at the cost of going under.

Originally Posted By: Airdrop01
I don't understand, honestly. I'm 40 something and still the single most fulfilling offline experience in gaming is the F4 campaign. It is by far, still today, the pinnacle of what I wish other sims had. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If I saw an IL2, DCS sim or any other sim with a DC close to what F4 had, I'd be addicted all over again. BOB was closest I can think of.

Last edited by GrayGhost; 11/04/11 02:41 PM.

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#3425636 - 11/04/11 03:33 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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While i think a DC would be great, i wouldn't trade a new F-16 or F/A - 18 for it. And for ED to commit the resources to that we would surely not see other aircraft sooner. BS and the A-10 provide for some interesting scenarios, but throw in an F/A-18 and possibly a Mig / Su and it is a whole new ballgame. I have said this before, but instead of focusing on a DC i would prefer ED work on making their battlefiel open and licensable so other developers can add content too. Expand the battlefield and allow for more variety. They took a big step with BS and A-10, but they need to open it up. Way too much duplication of effort between developers.

#3425896 - 11/04/11 06:54 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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People may be surprised to hear this - but I prefer the standard campaign. Dynamic campaigns maybe are a little more immersive - but they're not designed to be fun! Individual missions are built to be entertaining and challenging, and dynamic campaigns can be quite repetitive after a while...

Just my thoughts!

#3425947 - 11/04/11 07:47 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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Without some form of randomization, scripted campaigns are just as repetitive if you play them more than once. While a DC may seem repetitive if there isn't enough diversity programmed into it (ie you take off from base A and fight over enemy base B for several consecutive missions taking out air/ground targets until a threshold is crossed and you either win or lose the battle for that area), a well done one will be almost as good as a scripted campaign but will always play out very differently depending on whether you focus on air or ground targets or whatever.

I think the point should be it's easy to make a POOR DC that is quite boring compared to a well-done scripted campaign, but it's hard and costs to make a GOOD one, which is what people want. However, I don't buy into the "if you look at what the DC is really doing, it's faking blah blah blah" because it's irrelevant! If you have to look CLOSELY to see that, it means it's not obvious to a casual observer. Even a casual observer will notice that when they play a scripted campaign the 2nd or 3rd time the 1st mission is always the same, and later missions may be as well even if it's branching if for example they always achieve the primary and fail the secondary objectives with minimal friendly losses due to how they play that mission.



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#3425982 - 11/04/11 08:26 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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I agree with mig eater. I prefer the standard campaign. I just want to be some lone moop just doing his job and hoping to survive. I dont know the big picture, I dont want to know the big picture. I will do my sim job and hope it makes a sim difference thumbsup

#3425985 - 11/04/11 08:33 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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I like a dc, but I can easily do without it as long as there is a random mission generator, Im happy.

Rob


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#3426244 - 11/05/11 01:32 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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Originally Posted By: Mr_Blastman
I really have no interest in them doing an F-16. Falcon 4.0 BMS 4.32 is far better than _anything_ ED could make.


Bullsh*t :-)

Kind regards
Mizzy

#3426391 - 11/05/11 09:29 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: bogusheadbox]  
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nadal Offline
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Originally Posted By: bogusheadbox
Originally Posted By: nadal
man, I would love to see that in DCS.. without exaggerating, I wont hesitate to pay more than 25dollars just for that.


But how much would you have to pay in patching fees to bring all your flyables in line with it ?


Yes, i am on one and venting profusely


mmm.. it should be more simple, sell 25$ package of "DCS : Dynamic Warfare" which would be a license to join the Dynamic Warfare mission, and release a free patch for flyables to apply capability of interacting with the DCS:DW module.

I personally dont mind if the patch its going be payware but such a complicated design could bring a confusion to people.(BS1 BS2 BS2-DW A-10C A-10C-DW F-16/18 F-16/18-DW)

#3426591 - 11/05/11 03:39 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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Its my job to kill the Artillery and forward edge supply, how much of a DC does a A-10 really need. Canned missions will work well with this airplane

#3426765 - 11/05/11 07:20 PM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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Maybe the picture of a Hornet (its not a Super, by the way) at the top of the DCS web page is a clue. In that case, I am looking forward to their Predator module, the Abrams module, the Rooivalk(?) module and finally the Aegis missile cruiser module. smile


Shock and Awe is now Shuck and Jive
#3427121 - 11/06/11 03:44 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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After watching a bunch of episodes of "Carrier" on Amazon's instastreamthingieplaydeal I absolutely want the F-18 to be the next DCS aircraft. smile

#3427133 - 11/06/11 04:16 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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Man, I just want the speculation to end and for them to just tell us. D:

#3427153 - 11/06/11 04:56 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: kylania]  
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Originally Posted By: kylania
After watching a bunch of episodes of "Carrier" on Amazon's instastreamthingieplaydeal I absolutely want the F-18 to be the next DCS aircraft. smile


Absolutely, carrier ops adds a whole new dimension to a flyable- landing is like a secondary mission at the end of each mission.

#3427161 - 11/06/11 05:26 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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Amazon has an instastreamthingieplaydeal now? When did they start offering one of those?

Cheers!

Rick... biggrin


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#3427181 - 11/06/11 06:28 AM Re: Next aircraft a very popular fixed wing u.s. fighter = F-16 [Re: robmypro]  
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Pretty recently I think. There's a bunch of TV shows and movies you can "rent" or buy now online, but if you're an Amazon Prime member many of them are free to stream as well. They have Human Centipede available. I'm not sure if that's even worth watching free. smile

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