I'll skip this one

+1

+2

I have to say that this came out of blue. As much as I am thrilled to finally have the Warthog engine upgrades in Black Shark (as they are really needed considering the more low level flying nature), but I am also disappointed with the fact that you have to pay for it as this is not how the DCS was advertised (or perhaps I got the wrong imrpession). I can understand paying for FC2 and FC3 since those are out of the DCS scope, but I understood that DCS was to have been a common engine with separate flyables that you purchase (e.g. something like Strike Fighters) while the engine is upgraded with new platforms and that you don't need to buy the new platform to get the engine upgrade as there will be separate patches (I think I remember this answer clearly).

So, this is a tough one. I flew the Ka-50 very rarely and I have to admit that one of the reasons (besides the high complexity which requires a lot of prep time which I don't have) was the low level graphics so in that regard this patch is very welcome. On the other hand, I don't like paying for something that I think was stated to come for free. It's really not about the $20 which is not a lot, but a matter of principle and business practice. I mean, I understand that there's considerable effort involved there to bring the Ka-50 to the Warthog standard (like compatibility changes to the Ka-50 part of the code, missions and campaigns, etc.), but if there's too much of it then the whole thing wasn't so modular and well envisaged to start with and they should have been clear about that. This way, we can look forward to shelling $60 for e.g. DCS: NEXT, $20 for Warthog 2 and $20 for Black Shark 3. That's $100 right there. Sure, some will say 'don't upgrade the old ones', but come on..

What's worse, I'm not crazy about either the Black Shark (being the helicopter) or the A-10 (being a slow ground pounder) and only fly them rarely and even the next module won't be something I really crave for (a MiG-29 or a Su-27 or whatever). Just nagging..

Wow, I just bought BS a couple months ago and have barely scratched the surface, and I already have to pay more? Great...

ED should learn to talk and care about their own community. All questions about Black Shark 2 were removed from English section of Black Shark forums. There have been talks about it for about a month on Russian forums.

Know-it-all attitude of moderators doesn't help here either.

Was it so hard to honestly say that Black Shark will need payware patch and prepare everyone?

I've been a long supporter of ED, I have both DCS 'modules' (are they really modules?) and LockOn Flaming Cliffs, but I'm afraid that ED is doing something wrong. I really hope that they will survive next years and will bring us great products, but ED, your customer service sucks.

i hope this doesn't affect their plan to release a free update. otherwise, that's pretty messed up, business-wise.

but hey, i have plenty of cash saved up from not buying battlefield and modern warfare games.

Any word if the training missions were fixed?

I really don't know what to think here. I bought Black Shark a couple months ago, but the initial version was wonky on my system and the tutorial missions didn't work with the patch. I figured I'd put it down until the unification patch was released to see if they fixed the training missions. Wasn't a huge deal if they didn't (though I think it's silly that the training, which is pretty important, gets broken whenever they release a patch), but now here I am, not having touched it, and I'm asked to pay another $20. Among other things, I imagine this pretty much guarantees that there will be no more work done on BS1. Don't get me wrong, the upgrades in the patch are above and beyond what a "patch" typically has (and I bought BS1 on sale for $25, so the extra $20 is not much more than buying BS2 outright now), but I'm a left with sort of mixed feelings about how this all came about.

Anyways, if they fixed the training missions I'm definitely in. I kind of get the impression they would have mentioned that in the features though.

Training is done via video in the training menu now (Same as BS1 v1.02 incidentally), due to the fact that updates broke the training every time.

Nate

There's a noticeable lack of screenshots in this thread....



PS: So training isn't interactive, like in DCS A:10?

Bummer

I agree 100% with you

My impression is that ED took advantage of the work done to make A-10C compatible with DCS A-10C to earn some more money - not that $20 is so much money to spend if you like Black Shark and want to improve the experience.



you certainly mean the ED moderators that post here at SimHQ (and don't identify themselves as such) - that is an ages old problem

Thanks for the info, that's kind of a shame. Re-doing the training missions like those in A-10C would have been a good selling point. Those worked really well, and a video isn't nearly as effective.

I'm not a Mod, just a tester, just so nothing construed as hidden.



I agree.

Nate

Haters goona hate.
The KA-50 is one of my favorite aircraft of all time, just behind the RAH-66 actually. I love DCS Black Shark and was sad that when A-10C came out, just about everyone jumped ship and forgot all about the Werewolf. So to me, the KA-50 getting all the engine upgrades that A10C has is a dream come true. I love this aircraft and while charging 20 may be a little unethical IMHO, my love of the KA50 outweighs my aversion to paying 20 bucks. Besides, SIMULATION is dying even faster than PC gaming is dying (Screw consoles) so they do need the support.

Buying and downloading now.

+1

I'd say the only "modules" are present on the developers' CM system. If we had a modular sim here (e.g. like Strike Fighters), BS would be simply patched and there would not be a completely different build installed (BS2) and even then completely separate from the Warthog installation.

I want to support them, but I feel cheated as this is not what was promised at the beginning nor I remember seeing any business plan changes stated at their forums (though, I might have seen a post stating that Nevada map would be a payware upgrade?). If there were some Ka-50 specific upgrades (OK, there are the cockpit shadows, but, again, they're there because the engine supports them now since the Warthog), new campaigns and the likes, OK, but all the features are already there in the DCS: Warthog so it feels merely like a compatibility upgrade to the Warthog standard features. Maybe I'm in minority here, but that feels like something which should have come for free, at least to the Warthog buyers.

I really want this upgrade (because of the terrain and ME updates), and $20 is not that much, but buying this would make me approve of this somewhat covert business practice which seems to lead us towards FC4, BS3, WH2?

I don't think ED want my money

There is no way to get the Steam version to be unpatched to '1.0', so the upgrade won't work for it.

I guess they'll fix this soon. I don't have the Steam version, but really don't feel like uninstalling BS 1.02 and then reinstalling BS just so I can install the BS2.

I did not know that - but it always bothered me that ED developers and Forum moderators post as members without identifying themselves as such, they are not defending their point of view but their products.

I have nothing against Devs defending their products, but they should identify themselves as such.

my 2c

by the way - Black Shark 2 is DCS A-10C Patch 10 ... lol

Yep, it will get sorted, but I get impatient for new toys.

You did. I don't know why you'd expect them to keep you informed of their business plans. Sure, it would be nice, but it is their business - they do what they need to.



... which took time and effort. I realize that there's a general expectation that such things should be done for free, but that's just not feasible. Time and effort need to be paid for.



What do you have against people being paid for their work though?