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#3407508 - 10/10/11 10:41 PM Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs  
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Sauron Offline
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I thought I'd post this to go with the threads acknowledging the man's passing.

http://gawker.com/5847344/what-everyone-is-too-polite-to-say-about-steve-jobs

We may as well hear from all sides.

Don't know anything about the situation myself, but if that's really what it's like in a civilian company, I'm glad my career was in the military.

Cheers!

Rick... cowboy


"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
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#3407516 - 10/10/11 10:51 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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I don't remember reading anything negative about the man around here until after he died. It's pointless at best, antagonistic at worst. Not sure I'd got to a place called "gawker" to get info anyway.


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#3407520 - 10/10/11 10:54 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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Originally Posted By: Raw Kryptonite
I don't remember reading anything negative about the man around here until after he died. It's pointless at best, antagonistic at worst. Not sure I'd got to a place called "gawker" to get info anyway.


Yeah, I stumbled on it through "Google News", thought it was odd after all the tributes I've seen to the man. I don't know the first thing about him, so I couldn't say one way or the other.

Cheers!

Rick... cowboy


"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
#3407533 - 10/10/11 11:03 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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Actually, Apple's shenanigans were quite well-known. Every year, a beta iPhone was lost at a bar and hilarity ensued. I wouldn't touch one of Apple's beta products without my lawyer being present.

Foxconn is notorious for having a high suicide rate among its employees. It's insane what they go through.

On the other hand Apple stock has paid for quite a few of my toys, so I'm guilty of quietly approving their tactics. If you're going to go to Hell, you may as well know why. hahaha

Last edited by shan2; 10/10/11 11:03 PM.

You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
#3407544 - 10/10/11 11:10 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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Sauron Offline
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I refuse to divulge some of the stuff that's in my portfolio. Social consciousness and capital gains and dividends don't always go together.

Cheers!

Rick... exitstageleft


"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
#3407555 - 10/10/11 11:18 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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This is nothing new, and if anyone though the "jesus christ" of tech would be impervious to this after his death, you are fooling yourself.

#3407736 - 10/11/11 04:38 AM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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Why do we expect people who had a huge impact on the world to be utterly perfect and devoid of any faults? That's the impression I get from how shocked some people seem to be about some of the things Jobs did. He's a human just like anyone else so why is it a big deal that he wasn't perfect?

Last edited by PanzerMeyer; 10/11/11 04:38 AM.

“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3407793 - 10/11/11 06:38 AM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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He was a genius but an SOB to work for I'm sure after the stories I have read over the years about him but that is not all that uncommon.
Look at Henry Ford, Thomas Edison and a lot of others all had their faults but our lives would be very different if they had not come along.
I would rather not talk of a man's faults in life after he is gone but the stories do leak out.
I guess I may never each this kind of genius but the again I won't mind trading that all away for having lots of friends over the years and being remembered as a likeable fellow.
All that aside, Mr. Jobs had struggled for a while with his cancer and I am very sad for the loss to his family and the Apple family as a whole.
Cancer of all kinds is a terrible disease and my mother is in the early stages of decay from lung cancer so I know it's sting well.

#3407823 - 10/11/11 08:12 AM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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That's a nice article you got there Rick. It summarizes almost everything I've read about Jobs during the past years. I think no one should take offense at this kind of articles. Sure the guy is dead, but we have to keep things in balance, and not only praise his good sides. He had bad ones too, people should know about it. And most of the Apple fanbois are too much engulfed in their worship of the brand to admit those kind of things.

This whole worshiping of Steve Jobs is scaring me a bit. Kind of looks like a religion, sometimes...


Murphy's Law says, "Whatever can go wrong, will, and when you least expect it."
(And, of course, we all know that Murphy was an aviator.)

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#3407907 - 10/11/11 12:17 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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All this is old hat.... I'd say pretty much everybody who have read a bit about Apple knew about Jobs' bad sides. Sides which were probably great for the company.


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#3408154 - 10/11/11 07:00 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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I wanna say thanks to the engineers that actually made his products what he imagined. They are the true geniuses if you ask me.

#3408169 - 10/11/11 07:15 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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Raw Kryptonite Offline
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Woz has great things to say about him, and even they had a lot of issues. A lot of people made great tech, but it was Jobs that made it get done and most importantly, sold it. That's why Apple got him back and took off. Engineering isn't enough.
Had a teacher than knew him, Woz and also Gates from back in the day. He said most of what you saw in Pirates of Silicon Valley was true, it mainly just left out a lot of people. No one has any delusions about what it was like to work for the guy, but he wasn't a criminal. There's always the door of course, but there are a lot of very rich people that stuck it out through all of that with him and reaped the rewards.


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#3408177 - 10/11/11 07:24 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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Sauron Offline
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Lone Star Ace mentioned Henry Ford and Thomas Edison, neither of whom was considered a terribly nice fellow. I think maybe genius is temperamental, or sometimes eccentric. Einstein running around without his socks and getting lost on the way home comes to mind.

When you're running out in front of the pack, perhaps it gets frustrating having to slow down and wait for everyone else to catch up? I don't know, but it does seem like a lot of the people that we can think of as having truly stomped on the terra while they were here came off as irascible or eccentric.

Jobs didn't live to be very old. I suppose there's also the possibility that he may have had a sense that time was of the essence and he still had much he wanted to do.

I don't know that much about him, but he seems to have been somewhat of a visionary and he certainly introduced the world to a lot that's new from where I'm looking at it. With time, perhaps he'll be acknowledged as one of the greats along with people like Edison, et al. I think we can always learn something by taking an honest view of those who were out front while they were here.

Cheers!

Rick... cowboy


"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
#3408181 - 10/11/11 07:28 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Rudel]  
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Originally Posted By: Rudel
I wanna say thanks to the engineers that actually made his products what he imagined.
I know it's semantics but I guess you mean designed? The iPhones, iPads, iPods and other Apple products are of course manufactured in China.


“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
#3408192 - 10/11/11 07:47 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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Originally Posted By: Sauron

When you're running out in front of the pack, perhaps it gets frustrating having to slow down and wait for everyone else to catch up?


Of course. I worked with some really great people and of course they want the people they work with to at least be very very good, or they are disappointed. What would be the alternatives? That they don't care about what the end product is like? That they think they are God and everyone else is an idiot?
So I think a boss that himself gives a lot, also expects a lot, only sometimes lauds you and sometimes, when disappointed, tells you, is completely ok by me. Also, obviously, a guy could never achieve what Jobs did if his job would not be extremely important for him.

Quote:
he seems to have been somewhat of a visionary


Absolutely!
I once read that Nokia engineers had the ideas for many or most iPhone features before the iPhone, but the management expected that it would not sell and that therefore it would be stupid to create such a product.

And keep in mind that someone that in 1993 said the Internet would not become popular and is simply a hype (iow Bill Gates) later became Chief Visionary Officer (CVO) of Microsoft.

#3408203 - 10/11/11 08:08 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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I've read all kinds of stories about Jobs. But his determination to get his vision to market are what made him matter in our world.

In 1984 I used my first computer, a Macintosh, at a friends house for a few months. Understanding the concepts of using it was easy for even a child. I could put in the floppy disk and click and start a game right on the desktop. Click, click, click to play the game. Then exit to desktop and start up my favorite application... MacPaint

When my parents bought me a computer, it was a much more modest TRS-80. A command terminal for the MS-BASIC language. I had no idea computers were so backward.

Buying an IBM compatible wasn't possible because of the costs, but Mom and Dad enrolled me in a class to learn IBM compatibles anyway. Finally a REAL computer!

The first lesson was? The command prompt. In short, I did not use a mouse to point and click a computer desktop for nearly another decade after that first experience on the Macintosh. When I did have the money to buy a "real" computer, "Windows 3.1" offered a pretty good UI and set of desktop tools (along with MS Paint), and cheaper than the Macintosh that I fondly remembered.

How much of that industry progress did Jobs and the Macintosh motivate?


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
#3408257 - 10/11/11 09:43 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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Accepted "heroes" generally have better public relations people.

If Edison had succeeded in fully ridiculing Nikola Tesla we would never have had the electrical distribution system and the way of life we enjoy today.

Edison is revered as a god and most people don't even know who Tesla was.

#3408274 - 10/11/11 10:05 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Hankmc]  
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Sauron Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hankmc
Accepted "heroes" generally have better public relations people.

If Edison had succeeded in fully ridiculing Nikola Tesla we would never have had the electrical distribution system and the way of life we enjoy today.

Edison is revered as a god and most people don't even know who Tesla was.


+1 on that Hank! I repeated Edison from Lone Star Ace because he's pretty mainstream and most people know about him.

But if you want to read some really fascinating stuff, grab a book on Nikola Tesla!

I've always wanted to play with some of Tesla's experiments, but I figured the neighbors would be pissed if I broke all their windows, LOL!

Cheers!

Rick... thumbsup


"We are extending ourselves in Space and Time not because of capitalism or socialism but in spite of them. The Right/Left Capitalist/Socialist establishments are psychologically unprepared for our emerging situation in Time and Space." - F. M. Esfandiary, Upwingers
#3408317 - 10/11/11 11:11 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Sauron]  
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"Apple's success has been built literally on the backs of Chinese workers"

Oh dear.

#3408325 - 10/11/11 11:30 PM Re: Interesting Read Re Steve Jobs [Re: Brun]  
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Originally Posted By: Brun
"Apple's success has been built literally on the backs of Chinese workers"

Oh dear.


Heh. Maybe they're happy to ignore Apples success through the 1980s when they were made in the USA and some later in Japan?

http://vintagecomputersale.com/macintosh-se-m5011-circa-1987-all-working-wcase

http://www.overclock.net/attachments/app...on-dsc00157.jpg


WARNING: This post contains opinions produced in a facility which also occasionally processes fact products.
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