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#3399956 - 09/29/11 12:47 PM Could you fly the real thing? *  
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Has anyone tested this? Not an easy thing to do organise I'm sure lol, but would a good F4 keyboard warrior actually be able to fly a F16?

Just a thought, ignore me if I'm talking crap biggrin

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#3399997 - 09/29/11 01:40 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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Only if he stays at a Holiday Inn Express. biggrin


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#3400033 - 09/29/11 02:32 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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sure if they went an joined the AF and went through the many years of training..

But I beleive we would probally have better luck flying a drone plane..


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#3400048 - 09/29/11 02:55 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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I remember that Gilman Louie, the programmer of the original Falcon, actually got a bit of flight time in a real F-16 trainer. I read an interview with him about the experience many years ago. So yes, a flight simmer would most probably be able to fly a real F-16. Of course, there's a world of difference between merely "flying" and actually "operating" a combat aircraft.

I've flown gliders on several occasions and while it is certainly different than a playing a flightsim, it's not actually THAT different.


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#3400055 - 09/29/11 03:05 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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I guess I'm talking about the whole experience, though, from ramp start, to landing. Take away any mechanical failure or possibility of death, would you be able to start, taxi, take off, shoot a naughty Mig and land?

#3400057 - 09/29/11 03:07 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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Well, we might be able to get it off the ground but once we do, I'm sure most of us would black out and not be able to handle the G-Forces. Remember, these planes are part mental, part physical.

#3400058 - 09/29/11 03:08 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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To be fair, I have trouble doing that in the bloody sim, let alone real life!

I'd love to have a crack in a proper simulator though. I bet I'd get it off the ground!

#3400093 - 09/29/11 04:00 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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I did some time in a RNLAF Unit Level Simulator some years ago and that didn't really pose a problem, don't pull to much G and make sure the HUD doesn't fail otherwise it suddenly becomes a whole lot trickier wink

#3400127 - 09/29/11 04:46 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: Mr_Blastman]  
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I dont know about flying a F16, but a couple of years ago I did take my flightsimming skill set and put it to RL practice in a Marchetti 260 in 1v1 air combat.
Air Combat USA

Our skills we learn translate well in RL, except for as Blastman states. I did well until I pushed negative-Gs, (Im no kid anymore). Then I got tumbleweed for a while.
I now do not push the stick forward in virtual combat anymore.


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#3400140 - 09/29/11 05:05 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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Originally Posted By: AndyT


...but would a good F4 keyboard warrior actually be able to fly a F16?

...



Based on my experience, absolutely not.

Being able to take off, fly, land, and fight for years in P-51's, F-16's, A-10's, F-18's, and a C-172SP on a computer got me < 5% of where I needed to be to take off, fly, and land a real C-172SP.

Take off and flying are probably the easiest and the most likely candidates for having Flight Sim skills transfer over. Landing is a whole different story. I find landing a C-172SP in FSX really sterile, bland, and boring becuase it is so much NOT like the real thing. Landing in real life if hard. I could have greased 300 landings in a row in FSX and still would have killed myself on the first real life C-172SP landing.

Of course, my experience is based on a C-172. It's possible that flight sim skills transfer over more in something like an F-16, where a computer is more involved in the actual flying anway. Or maybe they transfer over less. I don't know.

Last edited by malibu43; 09/29/11 05:09 PM.

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#3400312 - 09/29/11 08:48 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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Yes, when speed is well above stall speed. Landing/approach, no. Take-off maybe.


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#3400599 - 09/30/11 06:14 AM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: Robusti]  
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Originally Posted By: Icarus1
Cougar users/pit users more likely than keyboard users. I'd say keyboard users would be completely lost.


Complete keyboard user here, as said before a unit level simulator didn't pose a problem at all. Because of the click-pit you know pretty much where all the switches are and what they are supposed to do. The only buttons on the throttle quadrant and stick you'd need to fly (not fight) is speedbrakes, NWS and trim. Compared to my flying experience as a private pilot in C172's and Piper PA18's I found the F-16 simulator really easy to fly. You really don't need to make any rudder inputs, the HUD is a marvelous aid in flying and when you do get in a situation you have so much excess power it's real easy to recover. Just light the burner and off she goes. I am not instrument rated at all but with the HUD I was able to make a pretty much perfect ILS approach after some guidance from the instructor the first time. Turn the HUD off and even real F-16 pilot sometimes struggle.

#3400613 - 09/30/11 06:58 AM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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I'd love a go in a proper F16 simulator, bet it's an amazing experience!

#3400659 - 09/30/11 10:13 AM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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Yeah it was pretty cool though it wasnt one of the kind that moves, it is very similar to what a lot of the pit builder guys have. I can still remember how noisy the fuelflow indicator was! First time i changed throttle settings I thought I had an engine problem or something! wink

#3400944 - 09/30/11 07:01 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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Flying them and dealing with the G's was nothing. But I only have about 5 hours in the F-16.


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#3400966 - 09/30/11 07:21 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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I have to agree with Malibu. Taking off and flying a real aircraft is not that difficult. However, landing is VERY difficult. When I went through my training I was familiar with flying but convinced my flight instructor to begin my instruction with LANDING! After I got proficient in landing then everything else was easy and fell into place.


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#3400975 - 09/30/11 07:27 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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I was lucky enough to fly an F-16 simulator along with my CAP cadets. It wasn't a motion simulator but it was a real AF simulator for the DC Air National Guard. I did very well as I was familiar with the aircraft and was able to fire off a couple missiles. I was also the only one that actually landed the plane without crashing.


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#3400993 - 09/30/11 07:49 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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Don't know for everyone but I do work in a Military Simulator as Maintainer and as such I have my share of flight hours.

And I'm not talking about some Glass cockpit with touchscreen that replicates the real thing.
The cockpit I'm in (Eurofighter 2000) is basically made with the real aircraft pieces.

Pilots are known to come in and use their own helmet and PEC from the flight suit to use Comms and breathing air system.
It is most definitely NOT a showcase sim.

Back on topic, I manage to consistently do every operation required by the real pilots.
A2A refuel, take offs, fighting and landing.

Most of the landings are usually "mishandled" by fellow maintainer to enhance the difficulty factor, worsening weather condition, injecting faults and such (much like the sim scene in Space Cowboys).

Now, I very well know I'm not a Fighter Pilot and that I risk nothing by doing hazardous maneuver or even plain stupid things (couple are really good though :D), but still I pretty much know that I could fly the thing.

Not fight, flight.


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#3401024 - 09/30/11 08:24 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: Robusti]  
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Originally Posted By: Icarus1


...

My question is why someone who is so clearly interested in aviation would limit themselves so drastically by flying with a keyboard? A cheap 20 dollar joystick is WAY better than that. IMO total keyboard flying is pointless,.


Not to get OT, but I interpreted "keyboard flyer" to mean someone who uses a simple joystick and the keyboard to fly (such as myself), not a HOTAS that eliminates much of the need for the keyboard.

Maybe I'm wrong though... If "keyboard flyer" does really mean keyboard-only, the, yes, that's crazy!

Last edited by malibu43; 09/30/11 08:24 PM.

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#3401092 - 09/30/11 10:57 PM Re: Could you fly the real thing? [Re: AndyT]  
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We had one keyvboard only vpilot at our F30 lan-meets. He blew trumpit for a living.


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