#3397424 - 09/25/11 05:36 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 191
MK_PL
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Member
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 191
Poland
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#3399444 - 09/28/11 06:25 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
vintorez
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Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
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Hello piston79, I did it several times with Volkhow, and even once I scored both of them (I will enclose the AAR as soon as I find it among my files). Use narrow beam and be patient... LORO offers better power but even narrower beam which makes finding him virtually impossible. Switch to LORO for tracking and you will get better results than Neva you cited (as he flies away, the track is maintained close to 30 kilometers!). Hpasp said it's impossible with Krug in that scenario (distance too far to be detected by lower-power Krug's radar), however at Ashuluk a F-117 gets much closer and you can try to observe his echo and do what you should do .
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#3399520 - 09/28/11 08:02 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: vintorez]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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Hello piston79, I did it several times with Volkhow, and even once I scored both of them (I will enclose the AAR as soon as I find it among my files). Use narrow beam and be patient... LORO offers better power but even narrower beam which makes finding him virtually impossible. Switch to LORO for tracking and you will get better results than Neva you cited (as he flies away, the track is maintained close to 30 kilometers!). Hpasp said it's impossible with Krug in that scenario (distance too far to be detected by lower-power Krug's radar), however at Ashuluk a F-117 gets much closer and you can try to observe his echo and do what you should do . So, I can't get it with "Wide beam", only in "Narrow beam" and "Podsvetka", right? I expected that with "Volkhov" it would be easy, because it have more powerfull transmition... O.K. I'll try again!
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#3399933 - 09/29/11 12:05 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Stealth* planes are the REAL ghosts of the last century. Here are some publicly available and collected data for you to calculate with... 1, S-125M Neva manual page 39... ... contains Serbian account for the detection range of the F-117A with P-18 (Spoon Rest). 2, S-75M3 Volhov manual page 18 contains detection range of the MiG-21 with P-18 (Spoon Rest). 3, As the standard WarPact target MiG-21 has 2,2m Radar Cross Section, now you can calculate the REAL RCS of the F117A, using this... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross_section4, As you have the RCS detection capability of the SAM Fire Control Radars against standard WarPact target (MiG21), now you can calculate predicted maximum detection range against the F117... (S75M3 - pg22/23, S125M - pg12, 1S32M2 - pg16, 5N62VE - pg13) *I only discuss the F-117A capabilities here, that is already withdrawn from service.
Last edited by Hpasp; 09/29/11 03:51 PM.
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#3402029 - 10/02/11 07:04 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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Hi! I've just played with this formula - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_cross_section , but I'm not sure that the result is correct. We have data about the detaction range of P-18 radar for MIG-21 and F-117A . Basically the target appears when the radar receives a certain minumum level of energy from the target. For MIG-21 with RSC 2.2 m2 it is 180 km, for Stealth - 30km. RCS(F-117A)/4*3.1416927*(30)^2= RCS(MIG-21)/4*3.1416927*(180)^2 X/4*3.1416927*(30)^2= 2.2/4*3.1416927*(180)^2 X= 2.2/36 X= 0.06111 m2 It seams pretty big one for me. Did anyone managed to calculate it ?
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#3402298 - 10/03/11 04:53 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Lieste]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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You need r^4, not r^2 - the RCS is then: 0.001698m^2 Why? I don't get it....
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#3402303 - 10/03/11 05:13 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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where Pt = power transmitted by the radar (watts) <- it is constatnt at this case Gt = gain of the radar transmit antenna (dimensionless) <- it is constatnt at this case R = distance from the radar to the target (meters) S = radar cross section of the target (meters squared) Aeff = effective area of the radar receiving antenna (meters squared) <- it is constatnt at this case Pr = power received back from the target by the radar (watts) <- it is constatnt at this casemoving all the constants to the left... ( Pr * 4^2 * PI^2 ) / ( Pt * Gt * Aeff ) = S / ( R^4 ) Const = S MiG / R MiG^4 Const = S F117 / R F117^4 as the constants are the same with both targets, the two equations can be made equal... S F117 / R F117^4 = S MiG / R MiG^4 ...
Last edited by Hpasp; 10/03/11 05:20 AM.
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#3403911 - 10/05/11 11:08 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: piston79]
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
piston79
Member
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Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,011
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Hello piston79, I did it several times with Volkhow, and even once I scored both of them (I will enclose the AAR as soon as I find it among my files). Use narrow beam and be patient... LORO offers better power but even narrower beam which makes finding him virtually impossible. Switch to LORO for tracking and you will get better results than Neva you cited (as he flies away, the track is maintained close to 30 kilometers!). Hpasp said it's impossible with Krug in that scenario (distance too far to be detected by lower-power Krug's radar), however at Ashuluk a F-117 gets much closer and you can try to observe his echo and do what you should do . So, I can't get it with "Wide beam", only in "Narrow beam" and "Podsvetka", right? I expected that with "Volkhov" it would be easy, because it have more powerfull transmition... O.K. I'll try again! Hi, guys... Still can't "catch" damn F-117 with "Volkhov" on Serbian scenario.... Could somebody put a screen shot from the "A" screen... Just to see how it looks like.... Is it possible to got it in wide beam????
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Exodus
by RedOneAlpha. 04/18/24 05:46 PM
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