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#3392370 - 09/18/11 03:55 AM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: Flyboy]  
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 62
jwardell Offline
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jwardell  Offline
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Posts: 62
My error. Both sets of pictures were with 3dFx enabled. What I thought was toggleing on and off the 3dFx effect was actually enabling and disabling the 4x antialiasing function of the card. I forgot that in this game there is no way to show with and without 3dFx.
That explains why the pictures with the effect on were a bit washed out but had sharper lines than those without the effect.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3392481 - 09/18/11 12:53 PM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
Joined: Nov 2006
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Flyboy Offline
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Flyboy  Offline
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Posts: 3,368
England, UK
My bad too! How could I forget that you couldn't simply show with and without 3DFX in one instance? Oh yeah, it was about 2.30am here when I last posted!

#3392987 - 09/19/11 06:50 AM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
Joined: Sep 2004
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Eugene Offline
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Eugene  Offline
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Posts: 4,557
Oregon
I broke down today and unpacked a vintage Win 98 PIII box, and through the generous gift of a Voodoo 5500 card from kramer, managed to get LB Gold 3Dfx version running well. It doesn't appear to run out of the box, as the 3Dfx patch won't run except on Voodoo 1, 2, and Banshee detections. At least that is what the patch said. But I had already patched this install up years ago while running the old pass through Voodoo2. With the addition of a glide2x.dll file copied from a 3dfx driver folder into the LBGold folder, LB ran perfectly. I tried a glide2x.dll file from dgVoodoo first, but that version didn't work.

Just to celebrate a bit, I ran M1TP2 also, which ran in Glide graphics first time, out of the box.

A good Simday!

PS Thanks, kramer.


Eugene

CoreDuo G620
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
GeForce 1060
Creative Z
Win10
16 gig RAM
Cougar
#3393841 - 09/20/11 11:25 AM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Flyboy  Offline
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England, UK
Eugene - Screenshots or you're bluffin'! wink

#3394466 - 09/21/11 02:27 AM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
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Pinetree Offline
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Posts: 107
New Zealand
I found LB Gold to be fairly unstable using Win98, that was back in 1998 mind you. biggrin I never managed to complete a mission as the game would crash. I just might have to dig my copy out and try it using dosbox. If I recall properly the mission recorder only worked in dos.

#3394643 - 09/21/11 12:01 PM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: Pinetree]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Flyboy  Offline
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England, UK
Originally Posted By: Pinetree
I found LB Gold to be fairly unstable using Win98, that was back in 1998 mind you. biggrin


It's funny you should say that. I can't remember if I ever mentioned it before on here, but a few years back I did in fact buy an old PC with Windows 98 on it what I had intended to be my 'retro' system. At the time, LB2 ran almost perfectly on my normal PC so I didn't even bother to try that on it.

What I wanted to do was run LBG via the Windows EXE, natively, with no bugs or game crashes. I can't remember the specifics but I think I did log my findings in some personal files (would have to dig them out). But off the top of my head, I think I remember experiencing a high level of game instability - if I could even get it to run!

Well whatever happened, it wasn't good. As I only wanted the retro PC for LBG, and that didn't run properly, I sold it on only a week or so after buying it.

EDIT: After delving into my archives, I found my personal report on LBG on Win98. Here are some highlights...

DOS EXE:
* Sometimes you get a load of error text in the DOS window when you try to enter a mission, and you have to close the game.
* When you enter a mission, the whole screen is black except for the top where it is all green and fuzzy, rendering it unplayable.

Win EXE:
* Game doesn't even initialize - I think I had to use the CA.INI edit for LBG in Win98!
* Game freezes on Jane's intro movie, making it unplayable.
* Crash to desktop even in Win 98!
* Flight model is too fast and responsive.
* Missile/rocket smoke causes vast lag.

So as you can see, I didn't have a lot of luck!

#3395069 - 09/21/11 10:50 PM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
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Eugene Offline
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Eugene  Offline
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Posts: 4,557
Oregon
I am glad to say that I have not seen any of that behavior on my Retroid machine. It is running Win 98 SE, and apparently has the too much memory hack already built in to an ini from when I originally installed it. Will run some more missions; hoope behavior doesn't deteriorate after I have installed the unofficial Win98SE Service Pack (which did update various dll's so that MiG Alley now runs beautifully).

Specs are roughly:

PIII 600
768 mb RAM
Voodoo 5500
Win98 SE SP1 (unofficial)
SB Live iirc

Only chronic drawback is slight screen issues as I am using a VGA connection to my widescreen Samsung 24" lcd. Nothing much though for either LB edition.


Eugene

CoreDuo G620
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
GeForce 1060
Creative Z
Win10
16 gig RAM
Cougar
#3395390 - 09/22/11 02:18 PM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Flyboy  Offline
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England, UK
The specs for my 'retro' PC were:

Processor: AMD-K6 300MHz
Memory: 128Mb RAM
Graphics card: ATI 3D Rage Pro AGP 2X
Sound card: ?
OS: Windows 98 (First Edition, I think)
Monitor: Compaq V500 14" CRT

I also appear to have noted that after a bit of testing, I removed the ATI (??Mb) card and replaced it with my Voodoo 3 (16Mb) card, with 'much better' results. I also toyed around with the default DirectX5, later updating it to DirectX7. It seems that I didn't have much success with any of the Jane's Longbow games though, and for that reason, I sold it on.

#3395982 - 09/23/11 04:38 AM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
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Eugene Offline
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Eugene  Offline
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Posts: 4,557
Oregon
The old "how to make complex sims run successfully on thousands of different hardware/software platforms" issue. No idea on what specifically would have created lots of issues for you, but I notice you were running an outdated Win98 - not SE. Even that had (and has!) stability issues. Havng issues for both Longbow and Longbow 2 on a more or less contemporary machine setup suggests something specific to your setup. Which is a shame. I know a number of us here had many fine months and years of single player and, on LB2, multiplayer pleasure with Longbow. Given your continuing and valuable dedication to the series, I am really sorry it turned out this way for you of all people. frown


Eugene

CoreDuo G620
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
GeForce 1060
Creative Z
Win10
16 gig RAM
Cougar
#3396128 - 09/23/11 12:23 PM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,322
Recluse Offline
Mediocrity Above All!
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Posts: 5,322
Randolph, NJ
My old Win98 box is first edition as well, I think.

I had none of the issues either. P3-500 OC to 550 MHZ V5 5500. Previous box was a P5 166 V3 3000 Win95. Similarly smooth and at that speed level of CPU, rockets were accurate out to their max range.

I suspect maybe it didn't play well with the AMD CPU...and....IMHO, ATI cards (esp. older ones) always gave problems with sims.


Long system spec sig follows:



XP Box

Core2Duo E6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI nVIDIA nFORCE 680I
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EVGA GTX 560Ti
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ANTEC TP3-550 550W
Samsung Syncmaster 2253BW
Soundblaster X-FI XtremeGamer
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Win 7 Box: (thanks to kramer!!!)
Intel Core i7 3.06 GHz
16 GB RAM
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Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit

Flight Gear:

Cougar Hotas S/N 26453
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#3396136 - 09/23/11 12:38 PM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
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Flyboy Offline
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Flyboy  Offline
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England, UK
Ha, it's OK, Eugene. I also had many years worth of quality LB2 singleplayer play - most notably on my main Windows 98SE and Windows XP PCs of their era (i.e., not 'retro'). I have well over 150 flight hours and have just about 'memorized' every possible gameplay element in LB2. Therefore, I don't necessarily feel the need to have to continue to play the sim in order to have the good memories but also the information and game 'theory' at hand in an instant for answering questions or adding to a discussion.

As I've stated before, I never really got into LB1/Gold, but I guess if you played LB2 first it is hard to go back - just as it would be hard for DCS: BS players to 'go back' and try LB2 for the first time.

To be honest, I don't really have the attention span nowadays to get back into LB2 even if I really, really tried to sort out my stability issues. And as we get older, priorities change, free time gets less and other games take our grasp. I've also come to appreciate that there are so many other helicopters to discover and not to dwell on the AH-64. For me, I am more of a Comanche fan now.

And simming as a whole has taken a turn, community-wise, perhaps for the worse. I know on many occasions I have been instrumental in starting or continuing arguments and debates over such trivia as the authenticity of sims, Longbow complexity, flight models, helicopter dynamics and weapon effectiveness - but there is so much info readily available nowadays and there are so many know-it-alls that, at times, I no longer feel that I can contribute worthy, once perhaps rare and cutting-edge info and theories. People have spoilt the whole community experience for me recently (note, nobody in this forum).

LB2 will always have a place in my heart, from the awesome manual right down to the first time I saw the sim in 3DFX after years of playing in Software mode. The AH-64 will always have a place in my heart, but as advanced as it is and may become, it is no longer enough to entice me.

Well, this latest post of mine has come to sort of sound like a farewell, and in many ways it is. I will always be here for as long as the website is going and/or I am alive and kicking, but I feel that my LB2 playing days are well and truly over and I will only be a kind of third-party to the whole process here - not playing the game but having the knowledge from when I did play it. I also have the website with all my 'hard' knowledge on and a lot of personal files with notes, experimental stuff, etc.

I'm also sorry that I never got to play with you guys in the LB2 multiplayer heyday, and the two flights I did with you were more of a hard task on my part rather than an enjoyable experience. I've only ever really been any good at multiplayer in FPS games anyhow, and multiplayer as a whole is not something I strive for - I much more enjoy well-polished singleplayer.

And can I just take this time, again, to say what a pleasure it has been meeting all of you guys here. You are some of the best guys on the 'net, a virtual friend could have. When I first joined about 5 years ago I came here simply to advertise my ONE page LB2 'site' that was then hosted at Geocities. Look how my site has grown. Tens of pages, thousands of words and several webhost moves later - I think that in itself is testament to how much we've all interacted and my site is as much yours as it is mine, as I couldn't have made it what it is today without the input and dedication from you guys. I have made a few personal friends out of you, a few enemies, and a few who I have a strictly 'professional' relationship with. Jeez I'm actually starting to well-up here! May we raise a toast to those who have come and gone, to those that are still here posting, to those who have moved on, and to those such as Kevin 'PositiveG' Speichts who was sadly taken away from us way before his time.

I think these icons sum-up the mood right now, for me anyhow... smile frown confused cheers ar15 copter

#3396400 - 09/23/11 07:36 PM Re: Native LB1 + FPK with 3DFX? [Re: warthog77]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,557
Eugene Offline
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Eugene  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,557
Oregon
Great post, FB. And thanks for always remembering +G/Kevin. Know that your website service and answers and re-hosting +G's content is always appreciated. Doubtlessly more than you are ever told!

I know what you mean re attention span and flight sims (versus fps of all types) these days. But the advent of the new BMS release has revived me, and I would imagine a number of others at least from the Falcon community. It is simply terrific.


Eugene

CoreDuo G620
ASUS P8Z68-V PRO
GeForce 1060
Creative Z
Win10
16 gig RAM
Cougar
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