Caught this over at the banana forum: http://www.a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=26491&start=0

Civilian sims have never interested me before, but I think this would make a nice complement to CoD. Most of us here are accuracy freaks, be it the technicals, the history......we've even become amateur botanists when it comes to SE England landscapes! LOL

In an ideal world, the perfect BoB sim would have the damage modelling of CoD (and maybe the FM once tweaked), the AI of BoB2: WOV, the sounds of A2A (getting there, though!), the campaign of.....ROF? WOV?. Much as I love the in-cockpit detail of CoD, the upcoming A2A add ons of Spitfire 1/2/5, P-51, and P-40 will be another level higher in absolute authenticity. Ah, don't we wish, by magic, we could combine the best characteristics of each into one uber-Battle of Britain?

Tell, have you seen this (A2A addon notice) yet?

A2A makes some awesome planes, but I'm like you in that civilian stuff isn't too interesting. Flying a warbird without getting to use it for war is a let down for me.

I'm not big on getting into the nitty-gritty details of engine management and flight models, (if the plane "feels right" in my mind, I'm happy) but I'm totally with you about the sounds and needing a new campaign. I think I'd be fairly happy with CLOD if it had a campaign like BoB2:WOV along with some squadron management.

Scott Gentile, the head of A2A was already interested in Cliffs of Dover before it was released unfinished. Hopefully they will look at it again in a year or so. Their planes combined with a decent dm and an equal campaign would be my dream sim.

Link:
http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=24972&p=191405#p191405

I've been wondering about possible A2A involvement. Hope they sustain interest and wade in!

His last comment was in May, so you never know. If I were them I might wait a bit though, i.e. dust is still settling and, while I think there would be a decent market for some excellent new planes, I don't get the impression that 1C have quite found their feet yet - not at least so I'd wager dev money.

Well, they could always call the non-combat warbird sim "Ferry Command -- Where Hard Landings Count" ....... or some such. Might attract a whole new demographic to the genre - not that there's anything wrong with that!

Personally I think it would make more sense to team up with 777 and RoF than 1C.

First, you already have a game engine that's evolved to be one of the most solid titles we have: It performs well, looks and sounds great, and comes with a built in web store/content management system.

A2A already has a decent stable of WWII fighters that could probably be converted over pretty quickly. and there's enough talent and capacity among the FSX community to develop both the scenery and aircraft for a WII theater.

Most important: RoF isn't being published by Ubisoft, meaning a giant corporate over-lord doesn't have to sign off on DLC.

If there's one reason you won't see A2A content in CloD, I'd bet dollars to donuts that's it.

CloD might one day get there, but the key word is might. RoF IS there right now.

PS: Before you knock the A2A birds for being de-fanged, let me put it this way (from someone who's flown their B-17 w/ Accu-sim)

If, in real life, I handed you the keys to your very own restored, vintage Warbird, would you shrug and say "no thanks, I'm not interested unless I get to shoot something with it"? Accu-sim products are like getting the keys to that warbird. It rattles, it hums, it's parts wear out and need to be replaced over time. On the B-17, each engine develops it's own personality. Some pick up speed quicker than others. 3 might start right up, while 1 needs an extra couple turn overs. Maybe 4 takes a second longer than the rest of the choir to pick up manifold pressure, etc. At the end of each flight, I feel like I just flew a vintage B-17; I feel like I own that aircraft.

I'm aware no one here is attacking or bashing the A2A products, but, I feel like your cheating yourselves if your a fan of these style planes,and you decided they aren't for you just because of the civilian nature of the sim.

Hard to argue with that viewpoint!

Aggressorblue, a subjective question: How do you find the "feeling of flight" in the FSX/A2A combo. I only have CFS3 to go by -- a pretty poor yardstick -- but wonder how far things have come along in that department with MS Flight Simulator.

Also, with all the functioning systems, guages, etc. etc. etc. in A2A, I figure my head would be too buried in the cockpit with the extra workload to be worried about "the Hun in the sun".

Thanks for the heads up. I think A2A is deserving of support. I have no prejudice against warbirds in a civilian setting. If a software company can enable us to see how how WWIi combat AC might have performed when new, great. One thing I notice is that the A2A Bf109 seems to have a rev limiter. I think that is ok if historically accurate. With any upcoming A2A products I would expect that any flying "aids" would be documented and made optional.

In general, FSX is a pretty sorry bit of software. Stock for Stock, There are a lot of parallels to CloD actually. In general, it's reach outsides it's grasp, and it performs poorly.

Where things differ, is FSX is cracked wide open for the community to support*. Once you get a decent CFG profile locked in, and find the performance "sweet spot" for your setup, add some nice DLC and your in business. Once you reach that point, most aircraft will still feel very sterile, Like your using your joystick to program a calculator. I tell you this so you understand the context of my answer:

In my experience, I've noticed a handful of exceptions: The A2A B-17, and B377, and the VRS Super-bug. From what I've seen of the PMDG 737NGX, it falls into this category as well. All of the aforementioned products developers have taken great pains to "break" FSX open and create a very organic flight experience. I'd rate them up there with DCS A-10 and Rise of Flight. These aren't mods for FSX, FSX is just a mod for them!

As far as workload? In the '17, you can assign Pitch, cowl flaps, and inter-cooler flaps to your co-pilot. This leaves you free to manage the aircraft. One could also argue that balancing both your aircraft performance and your situational awareness is part of the challenge of being a pilot.


*As an aside, my fears for CloDs future will be laid to rest when I see it's in the hands of it's adoring, freeware developing public, not it's rag-tag, underfunded, over-worked developers. FSX makes a case for after-market support, both paid and non.

Thanks for a very straightforward answer. I'm still very interested in A2A's announcement of its upcoming WW2 fighters just from a technical viewpoint. Sort of like a living, breathing factory manual.

I remember the absolute frustration I felt with the original Rowan's Battle of Britain. As with Cliffs of Dover, I really wanted to like it. When the community got its paws on it, miracles happened. CoD is way ahead of where Rowan's BoB was at release, so I'm optimistic about it's ongoing future. Some 3rd party modders have already begun doing good things with CoD -- and I think they're just getting warmed up.

Thanks again for your perspective on FSX/A2A etc.

No problem

Quote..."*As an aside, my fears for CloDs future will be laid to rest when I see it's in the hands of it's adoring, freeware developing public, not it's rag-tag, underfunded, over-worked developers. FSX makes a case for after-market support, both paid and non."


I'm all for modders fine tuning the developers work. I would suggest its alot easier to do that than develop the whole Battle of Britain. Without those "rag-tag" developers the modders would have nothing to Mod. Of course the modders could get together and develop a Battle of Britain sim from scratch. Then they could take the abuse from the community, when they don't have the time to add and fine tune every detail. Although I find most of the modders really appreciate the work done by the developer, as they understand the work involved,

Maybe some of Scott's outstanding Accu-Sim fighters will be added to a combat flight sim in the future. I wonder if the community would be interested?

[quote=Snapper]Thanks for a very straightforward answer. [quote]

This is a classy response Snapper, cudos....

I'm in.

a-b took the time to provide some really good firsthand info, which I appreciate. IIRC it was Tell in this forum that alerted me to the current Spitfire that A2A has released with an excellent instructional video on prop pitch. Despite my smart-a$$ed comment about the gun button not functioning (actually a very witty observation, one of my best, I thought) Tell gave me some further background on the A2A Spit.

For lack of time I haven't gone the FSX/A2A route yet, but I'm almost certainly going to pull the trigger on this upcoming Spit/P51/P40 series.

Hmmm', just occurred to me......maybe A2A could contract out Oleg to assist with the damage modelling and weapon loadouts.....

Not really serious, but stranger things have happened. Didn't 1C get the ROF sounds guy to help with the latest CoD beta patch? Maybe A2A could snag ROF's campaign guy while they're at it. Uh, IF they're at it, that is!

Just to add my voice - would love to see the A2A guys build aircraft for cliffs of dover. like others, I think their aircraft are beautiful.

In a WWII flight sim with DCS or A2A Accusim fidelity and systems modelling? HELL yes