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#3235547 - 03/16/11 07:42 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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Originally Posted By: WynnTTr
Good luck to those wishing for a DC in any future game. Even the developer that made the F4 campaign said that in today's climate, knowing what he knows, he wouldn't do a DC again.

F4 was a war simulator with a jet in it. DCS is all about the aircraft.

I think we've all got to accept that the F4 DC was an anomaly and one that probably won't be repeated again - unless some rich simmer were to privately finance it.

Mind you, I'd love to see a DC in DCS products or CoD, hell, any new flight sim but I'm a realist.


Sorry, but I get lost with all the different acronyms. I play Falcon4.0 Allied Force (F4AF) and heaven forbid there's enough in there, frown ; and Total Air War (TAW). But all these others:

F4 = Falcon 4.0 maybe? The original release?

F4 DC = ??

DC in DCS or CoD confused

If you could explain. Thanks.


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#3235578 - 03/16/11 10:13 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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Yep,
F4 - Falcon 4,
DC - dynamic campaign,
DCS - Digital Combat Simulator (Black Shark and A-10C),
CoD - Cliffs of Dover.

#3235593 - 03/16/11 11:14 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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Really should start calling it CloD, as has been suggested.

#3236053 - 03/16/11 09:02 PM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: Robusti]  
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Originally Posted By: Icarus1
Originally Posted By: WynnTTr
Good luck to those wishing for a DC in any future game. Even the developer that made the F4 campaign said that in today's climate, knowing what he knows, he wouldn't do a DC again.

F4 was a war simulator with a jet in it. DCS is all about the aircraft.

I think we've all got to accept that the F4 DC was an anomaly and one that probably won't be repeated again - unless some rich simmer were to privately finance it.

Mind you, I'd love to see a DC in DCS products or CoD, hell, any new flight sim but I'm a realist.


New DC not happening. After reading the interview I am now 100% convinced.

The only way to get a DC and a better sim will be a DarkFalcon (if it exsists) or some major graphical overhaul and MP stability of FF, OF. Most likely is that someone will get OF and FF stable in MP like AF and revamp the graphics (DarkFalcon??).

It will be interesting though, to compare the FM of an F4 F-16 to a DCS F-16 if they do one. A big difference in FM will get me to fly DCS, but I will continue to fly F4 for the the DC. For me, F4's DC outweighs everything in the long run.


FM = ?


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XP Home SP3, Running Falcon 4AF, 1.013 Patch, High Tiles (winter).
#3382348 - 09/04/11 10:50 PM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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Originally Posted By: WynnTTr
Good luck to those wishing for a DC in any future game. Even the developer that made the F4 campaign said that in today's climate, knowing what he knows, he wouldn't do a DC again.

F4 was a war simulator with a jet in it. DCS is all about the aircraft.

I think we've all got to accept that the F4 DC was an anomaly and one that probably won't be repeated again - unless some rich simmer were to privately finance it.

Mind you, I'd love to see a DC in DCS products or CoD, hell, any new flight sim but I'm a realist.


And it's because lines of thought like this that realistic combat flight sims are almost DEAD and most sim devs are or will eventually go bankrupt! Fortunally all flight sim devs that think like this will eventually go bankrupt (or stop making sims) and others will take up this place making combat flight sims with dynamic campaigns! The only reason why DCS hasn't bankrupt is because they make sims for the military!
Anyway static mission linear campaigns that we have in DCS sims is so old 80's "technology". There was even combat flight sims in the late 80's and early 90's that have much better and interesting campaigns than what we see in the DCS sims.

#3383446 - 09/06/11 06:12 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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@ ^

DEAD = Destruction of Enemy Air Defences biggrin

Sorry about that...


Lentolaivue 30
#3383450 - 09/06/11 06:25 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: ricnunes]  
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes

And it's because lines of thought like this that realistic combat flight sims are almost DEAD and most sim devs are or will eventually go bankrupt! Fortunally all flight sim devs that think like this will eventually go bankrupt (or stop making sims) and others will take up this place making combat flight sims with dynamic campaigns! The only reason why DCS hasn't bankrupt is because they make sims for the military!
Anyway static mission linear campaigns that we have in DCS sims is so old 80's "technology". There was even combat flight sims in the late 80's and early 90's that have much better and interesting campaigns than what we see in the DCS sims.


What that it'll cost too much in resources to actually attempt a new DC? Ofc if it can be done efficiently and with minimal cost impact then wouldn't other developers have done it?

No the hardcore simulation market died to the rise of quick, multiplayer, no brain required games that's all too prevalent now. Not having a DC didn't kill flight sims - (and they're still not dead) sims are just niche now. They'll never be mainstream because mainstream nowadays caters to the CoD (call of duty) type kiddies.

#3383452 - 09/06/11 06:26 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: ricnunes]  
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Originally Posted By: ricnunes
Originally Posted By: WynnTTr
Good luck to those wishing for a DC in any future game. Even the developer that made the F4 campaign said that in today's climate, knowing what he knows, he wouldn't do a DC again.

F4 was a war simulator with a jet in it. DCS is all about the aircraft.

I think we've all got to accept that the F4 DC was an anomaly and one that probably won't be repeated again - unless some rich simmer were to privately finance it.

Mind you, I'd love to see a DC in DCS products or CoD, hell, any new flight sim but I'm a realist.


And it's because lines of thought like this that realistic combat flight sims are almost DEAD and most sim devs are or will eventually go bankrupt! Fortunally all flight sim devs that think like this will eventually go bankrupt (or stop making sims) and others will take up this place making combat flight sims with dynamic campaigns! The only reason why DCS hasn't bankrupt is because they make sims for the military!
Anyway static mission linear campaigns that we have in DCS sims is so old 80's "technology". There was even combat flight sims in the late 80's and early 90's that have much better and interesting campaigns than what we see in the DCS sims.


I think that if they were planning a F-16 module next the release of BMS4 will be a major bummer to them, a possible F-16 module might have slightly better graphics but that is the only leg up it would have over BMS. BMS with its DC and user made theaters offers endless replay value for free if you have the original game, I never got deeply into DCS A-10C because I had nowhere to use the skills I had learnt.

#3383454 - 09/06/11 06:30 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: WynnTTr]  
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Originally Posted By: WynnTTr
Originally Posted By: ricnunes

And it's because lines of thought like this that realistic combat flight sims are almost DEAD and most sim devs are or will eventually go bankrupt! Fortunally all flight sim devs that think like this will eventually go bankrupt (or stop making sims) and others will take up this place making combat flight sims with dynamic campaigns! The only reason why DCS hasn't bankrupt is because they make sims for the military!
Anyway static mission linear campaigns that we have in DCS sims is so old 80's "technology". There was even combat flight sims in the late 80's and early 90's that have much better and interesting campaigns than what we see in the DCS sims.


What that it'll cost too much in resources to actually attempt a new DC? Ofc if it can be done efficiently and with minimal cost impact then wouldn't other developers have done it?

No the hardcore simulation market died to the rise of quick, multiplayer, no brain required games that's all too prevalent now. Not having a DC didn't kill flight sims - (and they're still not dead) sims are just niche now. They'll never be mainstream because mainstream nowadays caters to the CoD (call of duty) type kiddies.


The fact that modern themed flight sims are still competing against a product released in the late nineties by a company that has long gone under says a lot of the true value of a good DC. In 13 years people will have forgotten about the DCS series, falcon is still around and going strong after all those years. It wasn't due to its stellar FM upon release nor for its stability, it was all due to the campaign engine. Untill ED comes up with a decent campaign system it looks like I have everything I want in BMS4 now.

#3383456 - 09/06/11 06:33 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: Lieuwe]  
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Originally Posted By: Lieuwe

I think that if they were planning a F-16 module next the release of BMS4 will be a major bummer to them, a possible F-16 module might have slightly better graphics but that is the only leg up it would have over BMS. BMS with its DC and user made theaters offers endless replay value for free if you have the original game, I never got deeply into DCS A-10C because I had nowhere to use the skills I had learnt.


The DC will still keep me playing it but sorry, if ED do do DCS:F16 - you better believe that the DC is the only thing that will keep me playing a F4 iteration.

Knowing ED's history, they'll have everything else beyond what any F4 mod can do. Given their track record you can be sure they'll have the right military specs and SME's to back up any argument as to FM, avionics, weapons deployment. DCS is about the aircraft down in exacting detail with the relevant data to back up their claims.

My true simming heaven would be DCS with a DC in more than just their titles.

#3383457 - 09/06/11 06:35 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: Lieuwe]  
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Originally Posted By: Lieuwe

The fact that modern themed flight sims are still competing against a product released in the late nineties by a company that has long gone under says a lot of the true value of a good DC. In 13 years people will have forgotten about the DCS series, falcon is still around and going strong after all those years. It wasn't due to its stellar FM upon release nor for its stability, it was all due to the campaign engine. Untill ED comes up with a decent campaign system it looks like I have everything I want in BMS4 now.


I agree 100% - it's the DC and nowhere have I said otherwise. But I'm a realist and we're probably not going to see any type of DC again. Like I said previously - even the guy who wrote it wouldn't do it again.

Last edited by WynnTTr; 09/06/11 06:35 AM.
#3383459 - 09/06/11 06:38 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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I'd happily pay ED 50 dollars for a module that consisted JUST out of a campaign engine, I think such a module would also increase the sale of their airplane modules too. Recently I was thinking wether it wouldn't be a good idea for a company or group to develop a well documented external campaign engine they could license to flight sim devs, sort of like speedtree but with campaigns. Then again I don't have the money nor the technical knowhow to do something like that.

#3383468 - 09/06/11 07:11 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: Lieuwe]  
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Originally Posted By: Lieuwe
I think that if they were planning a F-16 module next the release of BMS4 will be a major bummer to them, a possible F-16 module might have slightly better graphics but that is the only leg up it would have over BMS. BMS with its DC and user made theaters offers endless replay value for free if you have the original game, I never got deeply into DCS A-10C because I had nowhere to use the skills I had learnt.


Quite the opposite IMO, it can only help them if BMS gets more people interested in flying the F16, or jets in general.. the sim nerds will get both sims, the "unwashed masses" don't know anything about BMS and will get DCS - and don't forget, DCS is the only sim still sold and actively advertised (no BMS on steam for example).

Plus having multiple teams working on simulating the F16 airframe will keep all on their toes :p


Mr. Zorg: If ya want something done...do it yourself!!
#3383921 - 09/06/11 07:17 PM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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that sure is pretty


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#3388879 - 09/13/11 04:32 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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If flare looks like that, then holy crap!!! Falcon is going to be nice.


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#3388938 - 09/13/11 08:07 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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Only thing missing are trees!

#3388943 - 09/13/11 08:33 AM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: Lieuwe]  
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Originally Posted By: Lieuwe
Only thing missing are trees!


http://www.benchmarksims.org/forum/showthread.php?5339-Converting-your-theater-to-work-in-BMS

maybe in the next update?

#3389053 - 09/13/11 01:30 PM Re: Falcon tiles in progress. New BMS? [Re: MikeTaylor]  
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I see things go better and better for Falcon world!
With BMS the Terrain have taken its restyling... I hope something will change for elevation. I mean something like SRTM data.
Go Falconeers, Go!

Last edited by Forna73; 09/13/11 01:30 PM.
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