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#3367472 - 08/15/11 04:20 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Some info on how the Fan Song operated and on the Wild Weasels as well:

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/punch.html?c=y&page=3

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3367523 - 08/15/11 05:21 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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From that website - a funny one about RPK switch:

"Some air crews witnessed a further step taken in the electronic gamesmanship: simulated SAM launches. "We used to joke about the Russian technician teaching the NVA and saying, "See that big formation right there on the scope? Well, watch this,' " says Bill Sparks, a former F-105 pilot. "He would hit the button, and the formation would look like the world's biggest bomb burst as everyone jettisoned their loads and went crazy looking for a launch. Kinda funny, really."

Do you know any publication describing that campaign (I mean S-75 vs. USAF) in details? I don't mean that Osprey publication which said that RSNA-75 was able to track up to 4 targets simultaneously... smile

I'm trying to translate that Russian book on Vietnam and Middle East into English. Not promising anything, but...

#3367552 - 08/15/11 05:55 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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I think that similar 'scare tactics' were described by J. Gotowala, but were used in air combat, a missile was fired to break the formation of enemy aircraft. It was called 'hitting the kettledrum' (?)

Last edited by MK_PL; 08/15/11 05:56 PM.
#3367553 - 08/15/11 05:57 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: vintorez
From that website - a funny one about RPK switch:

"Some air crews witnessed a further step taken in the electronic gamesmanship: simulated SAM launches. "We used to joke about the Russian technician teaching the NVA and saying, "See that big formation right there on the scope? Well, watch this,' " says Bill Sparks, a former F-105 pilot. "He would hit the button, and the formation would look like the world's biggest bomb burst as everyone jettisoned their loads and went crazy looking for a launch. Kinda funny, really."

Do you know any publication describing that campaign (I mean S-75 vs. USAF) in details? I don't mean that Osprey publication which said that RSNA-75 was able to track up to 4 targets simultaneously... smile

I'm trying to translate that Russian book on Vietnam and Middle East into English. Not promising anything, but...


Best book on Linebacker-II:
http://www.amazon.com/Eleven-Days-Christmas-Americas-Vietnam/dp/1893554279

Best in Russian:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/zwb689pavxcg4d6/1972.pdf


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3367554 - 08/15/11 05:59 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: vintorez
From that website - a funny one about RPK switch:

"Some air crews witnessed a further step taken in the electronic gamesmanship: simulated SAM launches. "We used to joke about the Russian technician teaching the NVA and saying, "See that big formation right there on the scope? Well, watch this,' " says Bill Sparks, a former F-105 pilot. "He would hit the button, and the formation would look like the world's biggest bomb burst as everyone jettisoned their loads and went crazy looking for a launch. Kinda funny, really."


That is that switch on the I64V panel.
You can frighten the SR71 with it smile


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3367559 - 08/15/11 06:12 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp, could you tell me on which the time displayed in AARs is based?
You know, like
58:21 [...] Missile launched on Channel-2

58 secs is too early, 58 minutes... well...

#3367574 - 08/15/11 06:37 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Hpasp,
I looked for your answer about Elliptic Search method, but I couldn't find it... What about now? Could you explain that?
Also, why PRF is changed when we change the range scale?
And what's this switch on I64V panel that frighten the SR71?

Thanks again.
PS:. If anyone could answer my question about casualties in North Vietnam SAM sites I'd be pleased.

Last edited by Redcoalition; 08/15/11 06:38 PM.
#3367593 - 08/15/11 06:58 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Another article from not a very reliable source smile

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/1999/07/04/seeing-through-stealth.html

'Some of its designers argued that a milky blue color would provide better camouflage, but the Air Force "didn't think that was manly enough and ordered them painted black,"'

LOL

#3367748 - 08/15/11 09:27 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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#3368116 - 08/16/11 06:42 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Another article from not a very reliable source smile

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/1999/07/04/seeing-through-stealth.html

'Some of its designers argued that a milky blue color would provide better camouflage, but the Air Force "didn't think that was manly enough and ordered them painted black,"'

LOL


banghead

This article is rather about the politics of US military funding, than the actual event.

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/16/11 07:09 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3368121 - 08/16/11 06:56 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
Hpasp,
I looked for your answer about Elliptic Search method, but I couldn't find it... What about now? Could you explain that?
Also, why PRF is changed when we change the range scale?
And what's this switch on I64V panel that frighten the SR71?

Thanks again.
PS:. If anyone could answer my question about casualties in North Vietnam SAM sites I'd be pleased.


PRF, at 150km range mode, the emitted electromagnetic impulse has to travel twice the distance, compared to 75km mode, thus we could send out half of the amount compared to 75km.
(half number of vertical lines)

RPK

The RPK system is continuously calculating and creating the missile guidance commands, even when they are not launched.
Those signals could be sent to the dummy load, or emitted by the P16 antenna.
With this switch, you can select between dummy load (EKV) or the P16 (ANT).
When missile is launched, this switch is overruled and the commands are emitted via the P16.
If the P16 is selected (manually or automatically), it is indicated by the green lamp.
At the Volhov, if the system is in BR and 75km mode, the RPK signals are automatically sent to the P16 to frighten the enemy.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3368128 - 08/16/11 07:21 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Another historical SA-2 scenario, the ambush on the Wolin island.

http://www.infowsparcie.net/wria/images/s75/zasadzka.png

The only problem is that you shouldn't fire.

#3368233 - 08/16/11 01:22 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Brazil
Thank you Hpasp! But, in fact, I had asked about it months ago, but the answer was "check station readness"

Is there any other switch in lower red circle that've any use in combat situation?

#3368380 - 08/16/11 05:18 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
Thank you Hpasp! But, in fact, I had asked about it months ago, but the answer was "check station readness"

Is there any other switch in lower red circle that've any use in combat situation?


At the S-75M3 Volhov (SA-2E), RPK - EKV/ANT switch should not be used in real combat, as the BR/75km mode has the same effect.
With the upcoming SA-75MK Dvina (SA-2B/F) you will have to operate this switch, to frighten your enemy...


Last edited by Hpasp; 08/16/11 06:15 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3368526 - 08/16/11 08:30 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Hpasp, could you explain what this switch does? (SA-2, screen Z).
It is clickable but I think it was not mentioned in the manual.



#3368590 - 08/16/11 10:30 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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vintorez Offline
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You have the same on the right of Z screen - two switches for wartime frequency (never used in peacetime - hence secured), for epsilon (left) and beta (right) antennas. Similar functions can be found in Krug and Neva (just look for secured switches smile ).

I recommend reading this forum (83 pages and growing, I know...) and the previous thread about SAM simulator, and any of you will find answers for most of your questions.

#3368799 - 08/17/11 05:31 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Thanks!
I checked on the previous forum (just 34 pages) and it was already midnight smile

Originally Posted By: vintorez

I recommend reading this forum (83 pages and growing, I know...) and the previous thread about SAM simulator, and any of you will find answers for most of your questions.

#3370354 - 08/19/11 09:50 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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vintorez Offline
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...and now everybody is scrolling through previous posts, and our thread went dead. smile

Last edited by vintorez; 08/19/11 09:50 AM.
#3370357 - 08/19/11 10:05 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Yeah, but whose fault is it? smile
You just said RTPP smile

Originally Posted By: vintorez
...and now everybody is scrolling through previous posts, and our thread went dead. smile

Last edited by MK_PL; 08/19/11 10:06 AM.
#3371024 - 08/20/11 06:41 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: vintorez
...and now everybody is scrolling through previous posts, and our thread went dead.smile


don't expect that ! we will revive it ..... Charge

Last edited by Kairo; 08/20/11 06:44 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
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