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#3363777 - 08/10/11 04:22 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Kairo Offline
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Algeria
Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
I still have some (idiotic) questions. g.e, i never understood very well the Plotting Table indicators..
I thought "Own Target" is the designated target to the battery. But i found a Su-22 on Hungary being considerated "Own Target", how is that possible, what's the definition of "Own Target"?

Also, what's a "supervisor target" and a "rule violator target"?
That info would be useful for the translation, I fear doing a "word-by-word" translation and lose the real meaning of the words...

Thank You once again smile

it's not idiot at all for who haven't some knowledge about air traffic,
look:
An airway is a designated route in the air (AWY),
An air corridor is a designated region of airspace that an aircraft must remain in during its transit through a given region or country .
In some case air corridors are imposed by military for national security (to avoid air-photo spy), or for diplomatic requirements.
for most country there is a controlled airspace with a defined rules, and there is corridors for the airways,.

The circulating of the planes must be in the interior of the corridors, wide of 10 nautical miles (18 km) and are separated vertically to 300 m. (value may change between country),

Own Target = is an drone we launch to practice shut-down!
Supervisor Target = in definition is an "air post-commandment target"
rule violator target= if the plane don't respect the rules during its transit -it can be shut-down in some country- pilot


Sgt/C. Kairo
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3363780 - 08/10/11 04:27 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Kairo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

0 – jamming target
1 – friendly target (our armed fighter)
2 – identified target (our unarmed fighter with IFF on)
3 – border violator (previously unannounced target, that violated our airspace. This is when the adrenalin started...)
4 – supervisor target (WarPact level target to check the air defense readiness. You need to imitate missile launches against it, and prove it later.)
5 – own target (our fighter flying to practice the air defense batteries)
6 – rule violator target (our civil or fighter plane, in a wrong place or altitude)
7 – practice target ("paper dragon", target exist only on the plotting board)
8 – enemy (wartime, shot at it with live missile)
9 – target without IFF (our unarmed fighter with IFF off)


wow you are speedy than me thumbsup


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3363790 - 08/10/11 04:39 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

4 – supervisor target (WarPact level target to check the air defense readiness. You need to imitate missile launches against it, and prove it later.)


but there is some difference between us:

Supervisor Target = in definition is an enemy "air post-commandment target"

and there is another type we name DATEST:
it's to test all kind of Territory Air Defence", EWRadars, IFF, Aquisition Radars ...


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3363802 - 08/10/11 04:46 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Kairo Offline
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Redcoalition do you read Fr or not?



I have Ar also ready !!


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3363973 - 08/10/11 07:58 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
Ok, while I still remember (maybe I should wait for the implementation of the Dvina) smile
In mid-80s, a friend of mine told me a joke. Not very politically correct smile

"The Vietnamese received several SAM systems from the Soviets.
After a few days, the Vietnamese send a message:
'Dear Comrades! Thank you very much for the surface-to-air missiles!
Now please send us some surface-to-aircraft missiles'."

LOL

Originally Posted By: Kairo
Just for lol!


#3364072 - 08/10/11 10:43 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Redcoalition  Offline
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Brazil
Unfortunately I can't read French ... But thanks for the clarification, Kairo!
Thank you too, Hpasp, fot the clarification!
But... A "target without IFF" can also be an enemy with IFF off?
Thank you, I think i can proceede with translation now smile

#3364252 - 08/11/11 06:50 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Kairo Offline
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Kairo  Offline
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Algeria
Originally Posted By: Redcoalition

But... A "target without IFF" can also be an enemy with IFF off?
Thank you, I think i can proceede with translation now smile


IFF = identifies friends or foe, is an electronic equipment for automatic identification, with secret codes exchange
between radar and aircraft, only aircraft use it,(not used for civilian plane)
if the response is positive OUR aircraft will be as a big "banana" in radar echo, else he still as usual radar echo.
this code can change every days (or hours)in war time,or every month in peace time,
there is no way to enemies to send the same code "to be Friend" for the radar !

enemy with IFF off = don't exist !


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3364254 - 08/11/11 06:53 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Ok, while I still remember (maybe I should wait for the implementation of the Dvina) smile
In mid-80s, a friend of mine told me a joke. Not very politically correct smile

"The Vietnamese received several SAM systems from the Soviets.
After a few days, the Vietnamese send a message:
'Dear Comrades! Thank you very much for the surface-to-air missiles!
Now please send us some surface-to-aircraft missiles'."

LOL


they are right, !!! "craft" was missing in fist sending ! hahaha


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3364265 - 08/11/11 07:19 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Kairo  Offline
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Algeria
Hi to All !
we have a serious problem !!!!

our MASTER don't like to be called Master
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Please...
... Im not master at all.


and be came angry if we call him Guru
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Please stop Guruing...
cuss2


Hey ! All of you
we must choose and vote for valuable name to our G..., hummm Mas.... , sorry I'm afraid to said it !
every body must propose a name an we vote !
proposal is OPEN


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3364278 - 08/11/11 08:21 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Try Hpasp
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3364323 - 08/11/11 11:11 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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vintorez Offline
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1) Hpasp, I've learned that V-601 missiles can remain in "prepared" mode for 20 minutes only. While it is not reflected in the S-125 manual, is it still simulated? (I had no patience to observe the lamps for 20 minutes smile ).

2) How accurately is the S-75 missile preparation model reflected? For instance, after 5 min. of readiness the 20DSU missile should be switched off, or switches off automatically, whatever. After switch-off, how long must the battery wait before starting preparation of the same missile again? Is this modelled?

3) time compression mode has no effect on P-18/P-15 screen, I mean, antenna rotating speed does not 'speed up' - target position refreshment occurs up to 4 times less frequently. Easy to correct, I suppose?

4) Once again about Krug missile burnout speed: the receding target flying some 650 m/s appears to be faster than the missile (not very impressive...). What is maximum target speed for receding targets as of the Krug?

Last edited by vintorez; 08/11/11 11:12 AM.
#3364340 - 08/11/11 11:49 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hungary, Europe
1) Hpasp, I've learned that V-601 missiles can remain in "prepared" mode for 20 minutes only. While it is not reflected in the S-125 manual, is it still simulated? (I had no patience to observe the lamps for 20 minutes smile ).

Not simulated.

2) How accurately is the S-75 missile preparation model reflected? For instance, after 5 min. of readiness the 20DSU missile should be switched off, or switches off automatically, whatever. After switch-off, how long must the battery wait before starting preparation of the same missile again? Is this modelled?

It is fully simulated.

3) time compression mode has no effect on P-18/P-15 screen, I mean, antenna rotating speed does not 'speed up' - target position refreshment occurs up to 4 times less frequently. Easy to correct, I suppose?

It should. Do you use the latest version?

4) Once again about Krug missile burnout speed: the receding target flying some 650 m/s appears to be faster than the missile (not very impressive...). What is maximum target speed for receding targets as of the Krug?

Receding target maximum speed:
SA-75MK Dvina - 420m/s
S-75M3 Volhov - 420m/s
S-125M Neva - 300m/s
KRUG - 400m/s
S-200VE Vega-E - 500m/s


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3364413 - 08/11/11 01:38 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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vintorez Offline
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vintorez  Offline
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As to point 3 above, you are correct. v922d goes faster.
Nevertheless, I have found something like a bug. When I switch time compression "4x" at P-15 screen, the little black box in the center does not disappear after a sceond or two just like on other screens, and for a longer period (up to 30 sec.) nothing can be done with any key.

#3364482 - 08/11/11 02:54 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
Hmmm...
Highly Professional Although Shy Person?
Highly trained Professional for Aircraft Suppression Purposes?

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Try Hpasp
thumbsup

#3364604 - 08/11/11 05:14 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Hpasp  Offline

Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
... is slowly getting into life.
thumbsup



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3364793 - 08/11/11 08:27 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
Joined: Jan 2011
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Redcoalition Offline
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Redcoalition  Offline
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Brazil
Originally Posted By: Kairo
Originally Posted By: Redcoalition

But... A "target without IFF" can also be an enemy with IFF off?
Thank you, I think i can proceede with translation now smile


IFF = identifies friends or foe, is an electronic equipment for automatic identification, with secret codes exchange
between radar and aircraft, only aircraft use it,(not used for civilian plane)
if the response is positive OUR aircraft will be as a big "banana" in radar echo, else he still as usual radar echo.
this code can change every days (or hours)in war time,or every month in peace time,
there is no way to enemies to send the same code "to be Friend" for the radar !

enemy with IFF off = don't exist !

I already knew the concept of IFF, but i didn't know that the IFF codes were kept at such secrecy, so I thought that each "army" could identify both enemy and friedly IFF emissions.
Again, thank you! wink

#3364992 - 08/12/11 12:55 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Kairo Offline
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Kairo  Offline
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Algeria
Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
Originally Posted By: Kairo
Originally Posted By: Redcoalition

But... A "target without IFF" can also be an enemy with IFF off?
Thank you, I think i can proceede with translation now smile


IFF = identifies friends or foe, is an electronic equipment for automatic identification, with secret codes exchange
between radar and aircraft, only aircraft use it,(not used for civilian plane)
if the response is positive OUR aircraft will be as a big "banana" in radar echo, else he still as usual radar echo.
this code can change every days (or hours)in war time,or every month in peace time,
there is no way to enemies to send the same code "to be Friend" for the radar !

enemy with IFF off = don't exist !

I already knew the concept of IFF, but i didn't know that the IFF codes were kept at such secrecy, so I thought that each "army" could identify both enemy and friedly IFF emissions.
Again, thank you! wink

enemy aircraft, when doing operation in enemy land, must do "radio silence", that's mean
a condition in which all radio equipment capable of radiation is kept inoperative,
may be except on board radar in certain case,
enemy aircraft never use IFF in enemy land!


Last edited by Kairo; 08/12/11 12:56 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3365075 - 08/12/11 02:55 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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Kairo Offline
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Kairo  Offline
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Algeria
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Try Hpasp
thumbsup

Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Hmmm...
Highly Professional Although Shy Person?
Highly trained Professional for Aircraft Suppression Purposes?

may be I can said: High Professor of Airdefence Systems and Purposes

how agree for Professor ??


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3365077 - 08/12/11 02:59 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Kairo  Offline
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Algeria
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
... is slowly getting into life.
thumbsup



keep on going Doctor ..... don't Stop ! Bring all Knobs a life !


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3365153 - 08/12/11 06:44 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Amidkor Offline
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Amidkor  Offline
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Russia
Russian Air Defense Forces Museum - http://www.mvpvo.ru/
"Eng" button doesn't work nope

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