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#3362598 - 08/09/11 07:41 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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In Poland
every village has a SAM site!


Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3362808 - 08/09/11 03:19 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp

What was the question?

Originally Posted By: vintorez
Redcoalition, what was your question regarding the S-300?

On the manual, S-300 is part of Volhov family, and it's development looks related to the development of 6cm antennas and systems of S-75M3 Volhov.

My question is: In what degree the development of S-300 is related with the S-75M3?

#3362836 - 08/09/11 04:04 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Hi to all!...wave
For several days I'm looking for one information, but not reached yet!
what's the secret in soviet technique names? S-75 / S-200 / S-125?
Why "S" ? "75"? "125"? "200"? I searched Mikhail Pervov's Book reading (484Pages), but no result!
(may be I miss some pages?)


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3362879 - 08/09/11 04:42 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Hpasp Offline
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"S" = System in Russian


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3362894 - 08/09/11 04:54 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Redcoalition

On the manual, S-300 is part of Volhov family, and it's development looks related to the development of 6cm antennas and systems of S-75M3 Volhov.
My question is: In what degree the development of S-300 is related with the S-75M3?


The S-300P is a completely new system, developed using the lessons learned during the Vietnam War.
When the first S-300P version, the S-300PT Biryusa (SA-10A Grumble) fielding started, the development of the S-75M4, and the S-125M2 was immediately scrapped.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3362905 - 08/09/11 05:00 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
"S" = System in Russian


Right !
and means of "75"? why "75" ? and why "125"?
any idea dear Master!

Last edited by Kairo; 08/09/11 05:04 PM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3362907 - 08/09/11 05:04 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
In Poland
every village has a SAM site!



then you have no joblessness in your country!


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3362970 - 08/09/11 06:09 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kairo
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
"S" = System in Russian


Right !
and means of "75"? why "75" ? and why "125"?


Russian system nominations are not usually logical, and sometimes it was used to confuse the enemy.
With the air defense systems, they usually simply added 25 to the numbering.

S-25 Berkut (SA-1)
S-50 Dal (SA-5), cancelled
S-75 Dvina/Desna/Volhov (SA-2)
S-100 IADS
S-125 Neva (SA-3)

S-175 Competitor to the KRUG, cancelled
S-200 Angara/Vega/Dubna (SA-5)
S-225 Azov (ABM-2) competitor to the A-135 ABM system, cancelled
S-250 the planned successor of the Neva, cancelled

S-300P Biryusa/Volhov-M6 (SA-10)
S-300PM Favorit (SA-20)
S-400 Triumph (SA-21)

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/09/11 07:05 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3363100 - 08/09/11 08:20 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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vintorez Offline
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Not to remain without last word: the only common thing between S-75 and S-300 I see was that at some stage of its development early S-300Px was referred to as Volkhov-M6 (probably to confuse Western intelligence that it was a deep modernization of S-75 -- note the last 'real' one was Volkhov-M4).

#3363102 - 08/09/11 08:21 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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vintorez Offline
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Oh, I see Hpasp was faster with his V-M6 smile. Guru, could you tell a little bit about such then-planned Neva-M2?

Last edited by vintorez; 08/09/11 09:40 PM.
#3363249 - 08/09/11 10:46 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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zacklaws Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
1101 is a Polish warship, safeguarding the firing range.

1102 is a MiG-21 (Fishbed) fighter, that first fly a parallel path than turns on the SAM battery.
At about 25~30km range, it launches an RS-2US (AA-1 Alkali) short range Air-to-Air missile towards us.

To safeguard the MiG, the missiles has self destruct timers, that blows up over 20km range.



Glad I have just found out about this as I thought also it was a bug, but what is the tgt 1104 that I get everytime, is that the AA missile, and if so why is the tgt number in white and why can I not lock onto it in the IADS screen, or can I only lock onto it manually?

#3363256 - 08/09/11 10:49 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Vympel Offline
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Originally Posted By: vintorez
Oh, I see Hpasp was faster with his V-M6 smile. Guru, could you tell a little bit about such then-planned Neva-M2?


Yes, I am also interested about any info on S-250.

#3363348 - 08/10/11 01:20 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Algeria
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Russian system nominations are not usually logical, and sometimes it was used to confuse the enemy.
With the air defense systems, they usually simply added 25 to the numbering.

S-25 Berkut (SA-1)
S-50 Dal (SA-5), cancelled
S-75 Dvina/Desna/Volhov (SA-2)
S-100 IADS
S-125 Neva (SA-3)

S-175 Competitor to the KRUG, cancelled
S-200 Angara/Vega/Dubna (SA-5)
S-225 Azov (ABM-2) competitor to the A-135 ABM system, cancelled
S-250 the planned successor of the Neva, cancelled

S-300P Biryusa/Volhov-M6 (SA-10)
S-300PM Favorit (SA-20)
S-400 Triumph (SA-21)

Thank's too much for all this info, it was a logical question in one chapter
about "The names of the Military Equipments" for the "Complementary and additive information" Book!
your reply will be added as it! (I promise!) thumbsup

BTW I never heard about S-250 for neva Upgrade' any deep info?

Last edited by Kairo; 08/10/11 01:25 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3363384 - 08/10/11 03:10 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Algeria
Just for lol!


Last edited by Kairo; 08/10/11 04:53 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3363443 - 08/10/11 05:40 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: zacklaws]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Yeah, 1104 is the RS-2US (Alkali) missile, you can lock onto it manually, just track the fighter (1102) on your A or Z screen and when you see a new contact separating from it, lock onto it and FIRE!!!

Originally Posted By: zacklaws

Glad I have just found out about this as I thought also it was a bug, but what is the tgt 1104 that I get everytime, is that the AA missile, and if so why is the tgt number in white and why can I not lock onto it in the IADS screen, or can I only lock onto it manually?

#3363444 - 08/10/11 05:43 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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MK_PL Offline
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And he didn't believe them when they told him that radar radiation can be bad for his health...

Originally Posted By: Kairo
Just for lol!


#3363488 - 08/10/11 07:50 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: vintorez
Oh, I see Hpasp was faster with his V-M6 smile. Guru, could you tell a little bit about such then-planned Neva-M2?


Please stop Guruing...
cuss2

The S-125M2 Neva development was also scrapped during 1978.
It contained mainly those advances to the operator panels, that you as an expert virtual FCO would really appreciate.

Volhov style Elevation and Azimuth indicators.


The target flight parameter instruments gone below to the UK31.


Volhov style "target throw over" possibility from the acquisition radar.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3363497 - 08/10/11 08:08 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Vympel]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Vympel
Yes, I am also interested about any info on S-250.


To improve the detection range of very low flying targets (cruise missiles), the plan was to elevate the SNR.



This concept was further improved with the S-300P mobile elevated masts (40V6).


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3363704 - 08/10/11 03:06 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Brazil
I still have some (idiotic) questions. g.e, i never understood very well the Plotting Table indicators..
I thought "Own Target" is the designated target to the battery. But i found a Su-22 on Hungary being considerated "Own Target", how is that possible, what's the definition of "Own Target"?

Also, what's a "supervisor target" and a "rule violator target"?
That info would be useful for the translation, I fear doing a "word-by-word" translation and lose the real meaning of the words...

Thank You once again smile

Last edited by Redcoalition; 08/10/11 03:06 PM.
#3363772 - 08/10/11 04:15 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
I still have some (idiotic) questions. g.e, i never understood very well the Plotting Table indicators..
I thought "Own Target" is the designated target to the battery. But i found a Su-22 on Hungary being considerated "Own Target", how is that possible, what's the definition of "Own Target"?

Also, what's a "supervisor target" and a "rule violator target"?
That info would be useful for the translation, I fear doing a "word-by-word" translation and lose the real meaning of the words...

Thank You once again smile


0 – jamming target
1 – friendly target (our armed fighter)
2 – identified target (our unarmed fighter with IFF on)
3 – border violator (previously unannounced target, that violated our airspace. This is when the adrenalin started...)
4 – supervisor target (WarPact level target to check the air defense readiness. You need to imitate missile launches against it, and prove it later.)
5 – own target (our fighter flying to practice the air defense batteries)
6 – rule violator target (our civil or fighter plane, in a wrong place or altitude)
7 – practice target ("paper dragon", target exist only on the plotting board)
8 – enemy (wartime, shot at it with live missile)
9 – target without IFF (our unarmed fighter with IFF off)


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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