#3359671 - 08/05/11 12:30 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Kairo]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Hi! Some thing are always annoying me when I use SAM Simulator, and I wouldn't talk about it, (to not kill Hpasp in programing!), but I think know it's the time to talk about it! look: when we travel between different screen - to go to the different panel: EWR Scope, Plotting table(IADS), ...- we use simple keys -W,X,C, Q,S, A,Z,Y- to navigate between, since beginning I ask my self, Why -W,X,C,Q,S,A,Z,Y- ?? not logic at all ! and not efficient for tactical mode, (in my humble view!), that's why I have this "wish" in my mind, ONE PIC is more clear than thousand words: (Neva example with Up Down Left Right keys only)
Hi,
When the writing of this simulation started 6 years ago, we made several decisions... - The Russian writing above the switches should be readable, for the old FCO's. - As the whole Volhov Panel would not fit into the screen, we need to be able to quickly look around... ... so the idea of switching with the mouse, looking with the buttons, borne.
Q - looking up A - looking middle Z/Y - looking down W - plotting board - implemented later (in reality looking up left) X - P18 - implemented later (in reality looking down left) S - GShV panel (blocked in current releases)
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#3359714 - 08/05/11 01:50 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: MK_PL]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Kairo
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Algeria
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It seems that the clock on your TV also shows target bearing. 35 degrees. Nice feature! really good observation !
Last edited by Kairo; 08/05/11 01:52 PM.
Sgt/C. Kairo
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#3359731 - 08/05/11 02:24 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 58
Redcoalition
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 58
Brazil
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I have few questions, but they aren't directly related to the SIM... 1rst. What's exactly the GShV, and how it works? 2nd. How was done the engajement via-Karat optical channel? What were the procedures, what the operators saw, how was the scoope? Kairo, I'm translating first manual to portuguese, when I finnish it i'll begin to seek for the information already posted on the forum for you
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#3359754 - 08/05/11 02:59 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Redcoalition]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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I have few questions, but they aren't directly related to the SIM... 1rst. What's exactly the GShV, and how it works?When the KRUG was fielded in large numbers in the WARPACT, the US started the use of the Angular Jamming Technique. This is mostly developed against the monopulse radars (SA-4/SA-5/SA-6/SA-8/SA-10, ...) but it can also confuse older TWS radars (SA-2/SA-3) also. Thus the GSh instrument was developed, to counter these kind of jamming utilizing a special TWS technique. For the Volhov, it was called GSh V. For the Neva, it was called GSh N. So far, this kind of jamming is not simulated in the SIM... ... and its technique is not discussed.
Last edited by Hpasp; 08/05/11 03:38 PM.
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#3359763 - 08/05/11 03:12 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Redcoalition]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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I have few questions, but they aren't directly related to the SIM... 2nd. How was done the engajement via-Karat optical channel? What were the procedures, what the operators saw, how was the scoope?
The Elevation, and Azimuth tracking was manual. Guidance method is T/T. Radio Proximity fuse was activated with RAB.ot.VM. method, or using radio-electronic measurement, but then the whole point was lost. This is what Karat was seen during a Hercules engagement...
Last edited by Hpasp; 08/05/11 03:14 PM.
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#3359912 - 08/05/11 09:12 PM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 58
Redcoalition
Junior Member
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Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 58
Brazil
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Thanks Hpasp! When reading the manual again I saw things that scaped me the first time... Like: The Volhov series had added the optical channel later than the Dvina? Because looks like the first time Volhov had a TV camera was with S-75M3-OP, in 1983, but the Dvina had it since 1969, with the SA-75M Dvina “doghouse”. Or Am I wrong? And I'm waiting for the answer regarding the S-300, if someone knows, please, I'd like to know
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#3360023 - 08/06/11 12:11 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
vintorez
Member
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Member
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 108
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Hpasp, small interface corrections needed (especially in Egyptian and Vietnam scenarios): missile selection - pictures of 5Ja23 and 20DSU sometimes do not match the names, and newer versions of 5V27 appear on quad launchers (not the case in 1970/72, and not modelled in historical scenarios). Present screen switch model (Z-X-C, A-S- etc.) is good: 1) it emulates real placement of the panels, and 2) I got used to that
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#3360074 - 08/06/11 01:07 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Kairo]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Kairo
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Algeria
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Hi! Some thing are always annoying me when I use SAM Simulator, and I wouldn't talk about it, (to not kill Hpasp in programing!), but I think know it's the time to talk about it! look: when we travel between different screen - to go to the different panel: EWR Scope, Plotting table(IADS), ...- we use simple keys -W,X,C, Q,S, A,Z,Y- to navigate between, since beginning I ask my self, Why -W,X,C,Q,S,A,Z,Y- ?? not logic at all ! and not efficient for tactical mode, (in my humble view!), that's why I have this "wish" in my mind, ONE PIC is more clear than thousand words: (Neva example with Up Down Left Right keys only)
Hi,
When the writing of this simulation started 6 years ago, we made several decisions... - The Russian writing above the switches should be readable, for the old FCO's. - As the whole Volhov Panel would not fit into the screen, we need to be able to quickly look around... ... so the idea of switching with the mouse, looking with the buttons, borne.
Q - looking up A - looking middle Z/Y - looking down W - plotting board - implemented later (in reality looking up left) X - P18 - implemented later (in reality looking down left) S - GShV panel (blocked in current releases)
you know, some answers seems like illogic for me ..... because in the ground it have no sense ! then with deep observing ...... EUREKA !!! .....I found it ..... we are not using the same keyboard mapping, I think you are using an QWERTY keyboard, and I'm using an AZERTY one!with QWERTY keyboard it's right and logic. with AZERTY one, your answers seems like illogic at all, and not efficient for tactical use mode, and I do a test: with Arabic Keyboard we can't change between the screens ! (and may be all others non Latin keyboard will not work also! -Japanese. china, Hindi ...- ) I think Keys Up/Down, Right/Left is more compatible for all keyboards. But even if we opt to use mouse directly to do "the slide" is a cool idea, just click (or only put the mouse cursor for less 1sec), in extreme right or extreme left will automatically change the Panel !, and same for up and down screen ! this Idea goes not to delete old keys stroke organisation! it will be added to it.
Last edited by Kairo; 08/06/11 01:43 AM.
Sgt/C. Kairo
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#3360117 - 08/06/11 02:15 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: NaiseFail]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Kairo
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Algeria
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Present screen switch model (Z-X-C, A-S- etc.) is good: 1) it emulates real placement of the panels, and 2) I got used to that Agreed. The other idea presented is somewhat flawed in that it's overly complex. Using either the arrow keys or the mouse to move around means you need to memorize all of the directions you can move from each panel. I'm on the SA-5 Tall King screen and I want to go to the IADS screen, so that would mean pressing right and up twice instead of simply pressing E. Also, this would use the arrow keys which means they can't be used to adjust the radar. Dear all! for Vintorez: you are right, for Qwerty Keyboard, but not if you use others keyboard mapping, maybe Azerty one !(try to use it..) for NaiseFail:I don't know if you have already see on the ground the real disposition of the panels, if you work alone in one of this fire Cabin, you will see that you must pass along all panels to reach the ones you want! you can't bypass panels in middle to jump directly to the ones you want, you must have in your mind the complete "Image" of all panels and there dispositions in firing cabin, to be able to use it and to go to desired panel !, in reality you waste some times to reach panels. and simply pressing ... a key, is not the real world! (it's my personal think!)
Last edited by Kairo; 08/06/11 02:16 AM.
Sgt/C. Kairo
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#3360121 - 08/06/11 02:20 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Hpasp]
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Kairo
Member
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Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 139
Algeria
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SAM Simulator release plan
v922c is planned to be released within few weeks. It will contain the Pause/2x/4x time compression, and some minor fixes.
v923 is planned to be released about the end of this year. It is planned to contain the Dvina.
v924 is planned to be released during next year. It is planned to contain the Silka. I don't know why, but I feel all these releases will be more early .......... (I really hope!)
Sgt/C. Kairo
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#3360172 - 08/06/11 03:51 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Kairo]
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
NaiseFail
Member
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Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
Virginia
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for NaiseFail: I don't know if you have already see on the ground the real disposition of the panels, if you work alone in one of this fire Cabin, you will see that you must pass along all panels to reach the ones you want! you can't bypass panels in middle to jump directly to the ones you want, you must have in your mind the complete "Image" of all panels and there dispositions in firing cabin, to be able to use it and to go to desired panel !, in reality you waste some times to reach panels. and simply pressing ... a key, is not the real world! (it's my personal think!) No offense, but your argument is invalid. Some things have to be abstracted and/or simplified simply because a computer simulation, no matter how realistic, can never function 100% like the real life system. The simpler solution to this would probably be for the SAM Sim installer to either ask for, or detect your keyboard layout and use a profile made for that type of keyboard.
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#3360223 - 08/06/11 08:06 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Redcoalition]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Thanks Hpasp! When reading the manual again I saw things that scaped me the first time... Like: The Volhov series had added the optical channel later than the Dvina? Because looks like the first time Volhov had a TV camera was with S-75M3-OP, in 1983, but the Dvina had it since 1969, with the SA-75M Dvina “doghouse”. Or Am I wrong? And I'm waiting for the answer regarding the S-300, if someone knows, please, I'd like to know What was the question?
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#3360228 - 08/06/11 08:15 AM
Re: SAM Simulator
[Re: Redcoalition]
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp
Senior Member
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Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
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Thanks Hpasp! When reading the manual again I saw things that scaped me the first time... Like: The Volhov series had added the optical channel later than the Dvina? Because looks like the first time Volhov had a TV camera was with S-75M3-OP, in 1983, but the Dvina had it since 1969, with the SA-75M Dvina “doghouse”. Or Am I wrong? Correct. The Volhov/Neva/KRUG/KUB was much less susceptible against jamming, than the Dvina. When different jamming techniques started to be used by the US, the Karat was added to these.
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