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#3358758 - 08/04/11 09:45 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: NaiseFail
Originally Posted By: Kairo

I(+) - P(-) for Target Elevation
H(+) - J(-) for Target Range (Boresight)
L(+) - M(-) for Target Azimuth


Imo the arrow keys would be better.

Up = Increase elevation (slow)
Up + Shift = Increase elevation (fast)
Down = Decrease elevation (slow)
Down + Shift = Decrease elevation (fast)
Right = Azimuth right (slow)
Right + Shift = Azimuth right (fast)
Left = Azimuth left (slow)
Left + Shift = Azimuth left (fast)
Keypad + key = Increase range (slow)
Keypad + key + Shift = Increase range (fast)
Keypad - key = Reduce range (slow)
Keypad - key + Shift Reduce range (fast)

I really hope this will be implemented. For example, when you're engaging a jamming target with the SA-5, you have to adjust the altitude gauge with a control on a different screen. While this is very annoying I think the altitude gauge is in the correct place. It wouldn't make much sense if it were located anywhere else, same for adjusting the Square Pair elevation, the elevation indicator wouldn't really "fit in" any place else. However, being able to move the radar without having to even be on the same screen would eliminate this problem entirely.


Idea is noted, just keep developing it...
... keys for missile launch, high voltage on/off, narrow/wide beam, range mode selection...
(space is already reserved for the Shilka fire trigger)
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3358783 - 08/04/11 11:00 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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BTW, does anybody know any Wild Weasel sim? Could be interesting as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZuzaMy1ON8

#3358995 - 08/04/11 04:07 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Why not, post it. Kairo will love it! smile

Originally Posted By: NaiseFail

You're forgetting the SA-4! If anyone is interested I could post a shutdown procedure tutorial.


Oh yes! All tutorial are welcome and will be present as pics and deep explanations in this manual


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3359005 - 08/04/11 04:24 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
OMG, SO MUCH INFORMATION!
10 pages in just one or two weeks! Kairo'll doom us all (not if he complete that bealtiful complementary information manual) biggrin
I'd help you looking for information already posted on the forums, so you won't need to ask EVERYTHING again to Hpasp (I'm sopposing you didn't it already...)

Please, keep you all the good questions (and answers).


Just be patient, good work need a lot of times !, but I hope a very nice result, any tutorial or info help are welcome,
all what you want to add is welcome also, but just be patient for the first release!
this is the Holy month of "fasting" in our Muslim world, it's not easy to work with fasting, (specially because of very hot weather 41°), the capability to work is reduced now, ...

temperature inside home: 35°



I'd help you looking for information already posted on the forums,
What are you waiting for, Start it now, and collect similar information as one unit to be added !
Go .... ! Go .... ! Go .... ! ready

Last edited by Kairo; 08/04/11 05:46 PM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3359015 - 08/04/11 04:33 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Even Video tutorial already in Youtube will be added as Pics and deep explanations !


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3359021 - 08/04/11 04:44 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Kairo Offline
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I have a question not answered yet!, (you was in holidays!) about a maps in SAM sim

Originally Posted By: Kairo
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Adding one manual range tracker station would be similar size of work, than adding a completely new SAM system.
At the beginning, the vote went for more systems rather, and it is more fun for me also. yep
In the far-far future, the addition of network game is possible (currently just blocked out) but in this case operating more batteries by the networked users at wartime scenario is still more fun, than operating only one battery with more people.

For me, adding personalize map for unknown situation will add a 4 Dimension to the Simulator
in this case: how did you made the map in SAM sim?
?

if it isn't "Secret Defence"!


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3359073 - 08/04/11 05:56 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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MK_PL Offline
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It seems that the clock on your TV also shows target bearing. 35 degrees.
Nice feature!

Originally Posted By: Kairo




#3359429 - 08/05/11 02:19 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Idea is noted, just keep developing it...
... keys for missile launch, high voltage on/off, narrow/wide beam, range mode selection...
(space is already reserved for the Shilka fire trigger)
thumbsup

I'm not sure if any other functions need to be bound to keys. I personally don't see any advantage to having a macro for firing, narrow/wide beam, or range modes. Having a macro for high voltage could be useful, but all other mentioned functions aren't rushed operations. All other mentioned functions are preformed from a screen with both a radar display and launch controls. Of course, the above is referring to the current systems. I'm sure if you think the Shilka requires a firing button, then it probably does. As for the high voltage, it could be assigned to the keypad * or / keys. I'm sure you would probably need to use both, as the SA-5 is not directly on/off, instead it's a three position switch.

Originally Posted By: MK_PL
I was about to mention it as well.
I thought the problem could be solved by displaying the value in degrees somewhere on the X screen.

At first I thought the same thing, but then I realized that it just wouldn't really "fit" anywhere, and would look completely out of place.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp
"what if" scenarios could be always debated, and there are so many interesting historical scenario...

True, but currently there are only two scenarios for the SA-5. Don't get me wrong, I like both of them. The Operation Tallinn scenario is a good introduction to the SA-5, and demonstrates what almost certainly would've happened had an SR-71 tried to overfly, or simply played chicken with an SA-5 when the US had little knowledge of the system. Operation Giant Reach on the other hand, holds many interesting lessons. Such as how the SR-71 actually knows when you launch, and the entire trick of shooting it down in the first place. While both are interesting scenarios, there's little to do other than wait ~10 minutes for the pesky SR-71 to wander close enough.

I think it'd be nice to have a "fun" scenario for the SA-5. This scenario would probably consist of several long range engagements, along with some closer range targets. For example, a heavy bomber raid with escort jammers. You have to shoot down the jammers to get a shot at the non-jamming heavy bombers. There could be other shorter range targets such as Tomahawks, an F-117 or even a Scud being fired. Preferably, there would be an AWACS on station too close for it's own good. After all, who here doesn't want to shoot one of those pesky AWACS down? biggrin

Two other items of possible interest. #1 www.s-200.de no longer works. #2 New pretty picture!

#3359521 - 08/05/11 05:31 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Originally Posted By: NaiseFail

Two other items of possible interest. #1 www.s-200.de no longer works. #2 New pretty picture!


I prefer this one...
http://narod.ru/disk/22224441000/%D1%82%D0%BE%205%D0%9221%20%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81.djvu.html
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3359534 - 08/05/11 06:02 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
Perhaps, but it could be interpreted as if another operator was reading out the value for you.

Originally Posted By: NaiseFail

Originally Posted By: MK_PL
I was about to mention it as well.
I thought the problem could be solved by displaying the value in degrees somewhere on the X screen.

At first I thought the same thing, but then I realized that it just wouldn't really "fit" anywhere, and would look completely out of place.


#3359550 - 08/05/11 06:32 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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A pretty one indeed.
Kairo may like it, so...

(Clockwise)
Antena GSN = GSN antenna
Blok przelicznikow EMC = EMC (electro-mechanical) scalers block
Radiozapalnik = radio fuse
Autopilot = autopilot
Zbiornik azotu = nitrogen tank
Zbiornik plynu hydraulicznego = hydraulic liquid tank
Serwomechanizmy sterow = rudder servos
Silniki startowe w fazie zrzutu = boosters being jettisoned
Silnik marszowy = sustainer
Pokladowe zrodlo zasilania = on-board power unit
Zbiornik utleniacza PZZ = on-board power unit oxidizer tank
Zbiornik paliwa = fuel tank
Zbiornik sprezonego powietrza = compressed air tank
Zbiornik utleniacza = oxidizer tank
Zbiornik paliwa PZZ = on-board power unit fuel tank
Ladunek bojowy = explosive charge
Blok aparatury GSN = GSN apparatus block

Originally Posted By: NaiseFail





Last edited by MK_PL; 08/05/11 08:50 AM.
#3359571 - 08/05/11 07:30 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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Wow, that's amazing!

On another note, I'll bet Hpasp would love to play with this:
http://www.radartutorial.eu/16.eccm/pic/p18jam.big.jpg

biggrin

#3359594 - 08/05/11 08:35 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Originally Posted By: NaiseFail

On another note, I'll bet Hpasp would love to play with this:
http://www.radartutorial.eu/16.eccm/pic/p18jam.big.jpg

biggrin


Maybe, but I prefer real historical photo-shots of the real events...
... like these. (Vietnam December of 1972)
thumbsup





Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3359601 - 08/05/11 09:04 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
NaiseFail Offline
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Posts: 210
Virginia
The things you manage to find never cease to surprise me. biggrin

Edit:

New question, http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/s200.htm claims that "In the Mideast, this missile successfully intercepted Israeli reconnaissance aircraft at a range of 190 km in the 1980's."

Is this true? Also, do you have any info on other S-200 shoot downs? The only one I ever heard about was the shoot down of that airliner..

Last edited by NaiseFail; 08/05/11 09:55 AM.
#3359618 - 08/05/11 10:07 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Posts: 2,665
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The things you manage to find never cease to surprise me. biggrin

This SIM is try to be more realistic, than your expectations. thumbsup
The testers are those who operated and fired it during their whole active life.
(This is why Im really-really against theoretical situations...)

During wartime/practice events, crew had to create periodical photo-shots of their indicators, for later analysis.
As these photos are no secret anymore, the SIM is really based on what the real crew seen.
(bit slow process, but real historical event participants used to say, this is what we seen than)
thumbsup

If you seen similar images at the SIM, than I would really thank.
smile

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/05/11 10:25 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3359619 - 08/05/11 10:15 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
New question, http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/s200.htm claims that "In the Mideast, this missile successfully intercepted Israeli reconnaissance aircraft at a range of 190 km in the 1980's."
Is this true? Also, do you have any info on other S-200 shoot downs? The only one I ever heard about was the shoot down of that airliner..


I read about it, but never seen any usual proof.
(most importantly indicator screen-shots, wrecks, etc...)

The Bekaa valley event are still under investigation, for possible future situations in the SIM...



... thumbsup

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/05/11 10:18 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3359624 - 08/05/11 10:31 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
By the way Hpasp, is there any way to make the plotting board more readable in some scenarios (Linebacker II)? I.e. erase or highlight some paths.

#3359638 - 08/05/11 11:19 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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By the way Hpasp, is there any way to make the plotting board more readable in some scenarios (Linebacker II)? I.e. erase or highlight some paths.

The question is again the same...
... you want realisms, or better playability.

The current plotting board implementation is still better than it was in reality.
nope

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/05/11 11:31 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3359658 - 08/05/11 12:08 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
That kind of explains the low SA-2 kill ratio in Vietnam.
I mean sometimes it's just difficult to read out the altitude of a jamming target.
And as regards simulations, they are always a compromise between realism and playability.

Originally Posted By: Hpasp

The question is again the same...
... you want realisms, or better playability.

The current plotting board implementation is still better than it was in reality.
nope

#3359660 - 08/05/11 12:10 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Kairo  Offline
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Posts: 139
Algeria
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: NaiseFail
Originally Posted By: Kairo

I(+) - P(-) for Target Elevation
H(+) - J(-) for Target Range (Boresight)
L(+) - M(-) for Target Azimuth


Imo the arrow keys would be better.

Up = Increase elevation (slow)
Up + Shift = Increase elevation (fast)
Down = Decrease elevation (slow)
Down + Shift = Decrease elevation (fast)
Right = Azimuth right (slow)
Right + Shift = Azimuth right (fast)
Left = Azimuth left (slow)
Left + Shift = Azimuth left (fast)
Keypad + key = Increase range (slow)
Keypad + key + Shift = Increase range (fast)
Keypad - key = Reduce range (slow)
Keypad - key + Shift Reduce range (fast)

I really hope this will be implemented. For example, when you're engaging a jamming target with the SA-5, you have to adjust the altitude gauge with a control on a different screen. While this is very annoying I think the altitude gauge is in the correct place. It wouldn't make much sense if it were located anywhere else, same for adjusting the Square Pair elevation, the elevation indicator wouldn't really "fit in" any place else. However, being able to move the radar without having to even be on the same screen would eliminate this problem entirely.


Idea is noted, just keep developing it...
... keys for missile launch, high voltage on/off, narrow/wide beam, range mode selection...
(space is already reserved for the Shilka fire trigger)
thumbsup


Hi!
Some thing are always annoying me when I use SAM Simulator, and I wouldn't talk about it,
(to not kill Hpasp in programing!), but I think know it's the time to talk about it!
look:
when we travel between different screen - to go to the different panel: EWR Scope, Plotting table(IADS), ...-
we use simple keys -W,X,C, Q,S, A,Z,Y- to navigate between, since beginning I ask my self, Why -W,X,C,Q,S,A,Z,Y- ??
not logic at all ! and not efficient for tactical mode, (in my humble view!), that's why I have this "wish" in my mind,
ONE PIC is more clear than thousand words: (Neva example with Up Down Left Right keys only)


Sgt/C. Kairo
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