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#3356052 - 07/31/11 07:44 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Haven't checked if it's like that in the sim, but (from Wikipedia):

'Once the aircraft had dropped their bombs, they were to execute what SAC termed "post-target turns" (PTT) to the west. These turns had two unfortunate consequences for the bombers: the B-52s would be turning into a strong headwind, slowing their ground speed by 100 knots (185 km/h) and prolonging their stay in the target area and the PTT would point the emitter antennas of their EW systems away from the radars they were attempting to jam, degrading the effectiveness of the cells, as well as showing the largest radar cross-section to the missile guidance radars.'

On 19th December, if I'm not mistaken, they turn E.

Last edited by MK_PL; 07/31/11 07:46 PM.
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3356058 - 07/31/11 07:54 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Muggs Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Kairo
Hi to all!

How can guess what is this???


I guess for a Weasel training aid, probable a Tolicha peak (Nevada [Area-51])?


Actually looks like this photo was taken from RAF Spadeadam.



http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafspadeadam/aboutus/index.cfm

#3356195 - 07/31/11 11:16 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Muggs]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Muggs
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Originally Posted By: Kairo
Hi to all!

How can guess what is this???


I guess for a Weasel training aid, probable a Tolicha peak (Nevada [Area-51])?


Actually looks like this photo was taken from RAF Spadeadam.



http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafspadeadam/aboutus/index.cfm


Same picture site !
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafspadeadam/gallery/aircraftandequipment.cfm?viewmedia=10
thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup
( But already discovered place !)




Last edited by Kairo; 07/31/11 11:42 PM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3356337 - 08/01/11 04:01 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Cat]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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Originally Posted By: Cat
The reason for that was for defensive equipment and rear gun coverage. If aircraft left the formation it changed the coverage of their ECM gear and left aircraft more vulnerable, and also left holes in their gun coverage for the rear guns.

Miao, Cat


Ah, that makes sense. Still, a court martial seems a bit excessive.

Moo, Chris

#3358354 - 08/03/11 06:14 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Hi All,

I'm back from holiday, and planning a new minor release with time compression functionality, using the keys...
F1 - stop / play
F2 - 2x time compression
F3 - 3x time compression
F4 - 4x time compression

Br,
Hpasp

ps: If I skipped some questions, please repeat it.
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3358364 - 08/03/11 06:37 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
You want more questions? You sure? Brave man! smile

Here are some old ones:

In the Tallinn scenario, long after the SR-71 has crashed, it still can be seen on the Tall King radar screen.
A bug?

Yet another question... as regards the Giant Reach scenario.

It seems that it is impossible to turn the systems off (i.e. to get back to the state at the very beginning of the scenario). I even switched to the KI-2202V panel ('W') and started to move the switches from GOTOV and POLN to VYKL, to no avail.
The radar was still working.
Pressing the red buttons - no effect (except for the second from the left, of course).

And is it possible to shoot down any other plane in this scenario?

#3358372 - 08/03/11 06:46 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
Ok, this is a really good one smile
Don't you think we should hear a sonic boom when a Mach>1 target (e.g. Koliber in Ustka) is flying near our site?
Lol

#3358392 - 08/03/11 07:27 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
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You want more questions? You sure? Brave man! smile

Here are some old ones:

In the Tallinn scenario, long after the SR-71 has crashed, it still can be seen on the Tall King radar screen.
A bug?


Should be a bug. I will check and fix it.

Yet another question... as regards the Giant Reach scenario.

It seems that it is impossible to turn the systems off (i.e. to get back to the state at the very beginning of the scenario). I even switched to the KI-2202V panel ('W') and started to move the switches from GOTOV and POLN to VYKL, to no avail.
The radar was still working.
Pressing the red buttons - no effect (except for the second from the left, of course).


Proper turn off method is not documented, and not implemented at any of the systems.


And is it possible to shoot down any other plane in this scenario?


Yes. All targets are vulnerable in the sim. All are flying precise historical routes, so if you cannot kill those, than CIA made a good job during preparation.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3358396 - 08/03/11 07:29 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
Joined: Dec 2009
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Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Ok, this is a really good one smile
Don't you think we should hear a sonic boom when a Mach>1 target (e.g. Koliber in Ustka) is flying near our site?
Lol


Nope!

Koliber fuel is burnt out long ago when it reaches the range of the SNR, and only falling ballistic.


Last edited by Hpasp; 08/03/11 07:30 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3358400 - 08/03/11 07:36 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Poland
Clever... But I'm sure there are other supersonic targets in the sim smile
Thanks for the answers.


Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Ok, this is a really good one smile
Don't you think we should hear a sonic boom when a Mach>1 target (e.g. Koliber in Ustka) is flying near our site?
Lol


Nope!

Koliber fuel is burnt out long ago when it reaches the range of the SNR, and only falling ballistic.


#3358448 - 08/03/11 09:14 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Proper turn off method is not documented, and not implemented at any of the systems.


You're forgetting the SA-4! If anyone is interested I could post a shutdown procedure tutorial. As for the Giant Reach scenario, I'm sure you're thinking about bagging yourself an AWACS, sadly none of the batteries ever get a shot at those pesky AWACS.

Also, welcome back tovarich Hpasp!

#3358453 - 08/03/11 09:22 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Why not, post it. Kairo will love it! smile

Originally Posted By: NaiseFail

You're forgetting the SA-4! If anyone is interested I could post a shutdown procedure tutorial.

#3358483 - 08/03/11 10:20 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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So, you want to shut down your SA-4 the proper way, huh?

After you're finished engaging targets shut everything down as normal.


Select the manual radar mode, and rotate it back to it's starting position. Next, flip the DHV three position switch to it's lower position. Using the manual control, lower the radar to it's lowest elevation.


Lower the antenna tower and select the "IIHC" operation mode of the Pat Hand radar, doing so will extinguish the right row of lights, and illuminate the left row. Finally, engage the travel brake.


And that's all there is to it! grunt

Last edited by NaiseFail; 08/03/11 10:33 PM. Reason: SimHQ doesn't seem to allow Cyrillic..
#3358534 - 08/03/11 11:39 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Brazil
OMG, SO MUCH INFORMATION!
10 pages in just one or two weeks! Kairo'll doom us all (not if he complete that bealtiful complementary information manual) biggrin
I'd help you looking for information already posted on the forums, so you won't need to ask EVERYTHING again to Hpasp (I'm sopposing you didn't it already...)


To Hpasp:
Please, send me the answer for me question regarding the translation, and the email with the Word text...
Thank you!

Please, keep you all the good questions (and answers).

Last edited by Redcoalition; 08/03/11 11:39 PM.
#3358655 - 08/04/11 04:16 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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A few questions for Hpasp.

1. As you develop more modern scenarios, will we start to see more evasion from the target aircraft? For example, will aircraft simply turn away and ruin the engagement if you come online too soon? Or if fired on by a SAM that they can't out run, will the AI employ defensive BFM in an attempt to bleed off missile energy?

2. Would you consider creating more "what if" scenarios? If nothing else, they could provide more options for the SA-5. Not to mention they'd require a lot less research and would be much faster to make.

3. Do you have any interest in the older US systems? Would you consider eventually adding the Nike Hercules or MIM-23 Hawk? The only problems I could foresee with these are the potential lack of information available for the MIM-23, and the fact that the Nike was primarily nuclear. :/

#3358685 - 08/04/11 05:03 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Hi All,

I'm back from holiday, and planning a new minor release with time compression functionality, using the keys...
F1 - stop / play
F2 - 2x time compression
F3 - 3x time compression
F4 - 4x time compression

Br,
Hpasp

ps: If I skipped some questions, please repeat it.
thumbsup

welcom back!
compression time is an good Idea,
what about an old Idea

Originally Posted By: Kairo

According to Col. Zoltan Dani, if you are On Air more than 20seconds, you are dead...

Then we need other pointing system more efficient, or tracking mouse, ...

Hummm...... , i have an idea why not an other key's to use:
for exemple in Z screen :

I(+) - P(-) for Target Elevation
H(+) - J(-) for Target Range (Boresight)
L(+) - M(-) for Target Azimuth

if your Prog is with VB6, i' think it easy to add.
we will be always winner
what do you think Hpasp ? (for next release?) transformer


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3358703 - 08/04/11 06:25 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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MK_PL Offline
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That's a good idea I think. It would encourage us to spend less time on air.

Originally Posted By: NaiseFail
A few questions for Hpasp.

1. As you develop more modern scenarios, will we start to see more evasion from the target aircraft? For example, will aircraft simply turn away and ruin the engagement if you come online too soon? Or if fired on by a SAM that they can't out run, will the AI employ defensive BFM in an attempt to bleed off missile energy?


#3358726 - 08/04/11 07:21 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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NaiseFail Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kairo

I(+) - P(-) for Target Elevation
H(+) - J(-) for Target Range (Boresight)
L(+) - M(-) for Target Azimuth


Imo the arrow keys would be better.

Up = Increase elevation (slow)
Up + Shift = Increase elevation (fast)
Down = Decrease elevation (slow)
Down + Shift = Decrease elevation (fast)
Right = Azimuth right (slow)
Right + Shift = Azimuth right (fast)
Left = Azimuth left (slow)
Left + Shift = Azimuth left (fast)
Keypad + key = Increase range (slow)
Keypad + key + Shift = Increase range (fast)
Keypad - key = Reduce range (slow)
Keypad - key + Shift Reduce range (fast)

I really hope this will be implemented. For example, when you're engaging a jamming target with the SA-5, you have to adjust the altitude gauge with a control on a different screen. While this is very annoying I think the altitude gauge is in the correct place. It wouldn't make much sense if it were located anywhere else, same for adjusting the Square Pair elevation, the elevation indicator wouldn't really "fit in" any place else. However, being able to move the radar without having to even be on the same screen would eliminate this problem entirely.

#3358728 - 08/04/11 07:31 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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MK_PL Offline
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Posts: 191
Poland
I was about to mention it as well.
I thought the problem could be solved by displaying the value in degrees somewhere on the X screen.

Originally Posted By: NaiseFail

For example, when you're engaging a jamming target with the SA-5, you have to adjust the altitude gauge with a control on a different screen. While this is very annoying I think the altitude gauge is in the correct place. It wouldn't make much sense if it were located anywhere else, same for adjusting the Square Pair elevation, the elevation indicator wouldn't really "fit in" any place else. However, being able to move the radar without having to even be on the same screen would eliminate this problem entirely.

#3358753 - 08/04/11 09:33 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
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Hpasp Offline
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Posts: 2,665
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A few questions for Hpasp.
1. As you develop more modern scenarios, will we start to see more evasion from the target aircraft? For example, will aircraft simply turn away and ruin the engagement if you come online too soon? Or if fired on by a SAM that they can't out run, will the AI employ defensive BFM in an attempt to bleed off missile energy?


Current F4 Weasel behavior is according to the historical procedures.
F16's will react differently. thumbsup


2. Would you consider creating more "what if" scenarios? If nothing else, they could provide more options for the SA-5. Not to mention they'd require a lot less research and would be much faster to make.

"what if" scenarios could be always debated, and there are so many interesting historical scenario...

3. Do you have any interest in the older US systems? Would you consider eventually adding the Nike Hercules or MIM-23 Hawk? The only problems I could foresee with these are the potential lack of information available for the MIM-23, and the fact that the Nike was primarily nuclear.

Nike is my personal favorite.
Most required info could be found here:
http://ed-thelen.org/
Just missing photos and free time.
cowboy

Last edited by Hpasp; 08/04/11 09:34 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
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