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#3345166 - 07/19/11 01:30 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Brealistic Offline
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IMO this is one of the BEST simulations on these forums and I thank you all here so much for it and your continued work on it. beercheers

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3345171 - 07/19/11 01:52 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Redcoalition]  
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Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
I'm very sorry, but I still didn't understand everything that was explained... I will have to repeat few questions frown
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

5...10, are for ARU/MARU/RRU controls.
Not simulated.
(auto/manual gain)

Sorry but, what's ARU/MARU/RRU? I searched for it on manual, didn't found, and don't remember this being told on older messages.


Because they have no efecte in Simulator, no description was brought in manual...

but just for info I want to ask the same questions to the master Hpasp!

Last edited by Kairo; 07/19/11 03:01 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3345174 - 07/19/11 01:55 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Originally Posted By: Redcoalition

Once again Hpasp, sorry for disturb with these silly doubts. I really admire your work, maybe especially because my country don't have any ground based radar air defense system, just som EW radars, neither did i served in the Army!
So I sorry if we expect a full simulator of every role in a SAM Battery... But's such a poorly explored area that I wait for a full simulator, that can show the greatness of this "job", even knowing that it's impossible...
Anyway, your work is still the best, by miles, in this area of civilian simulation of SAM and I'm very grateful for your "present", and for your great explanations here in the topics... Keep the great work!


if you have served in the army and in any Air Defence system, .. you will admire this work 10x !
Maybe Hpasp need really help from staff who can create real 3D area, with 3D moving SNR and Fan-song radar, and real 3D visual Missiles launches from launcher, and real 3D visual Rotation of P12/15/18/19 radar and so one ....look at this:

http://www.turbosquid.com/FullPreview/Index.cfm/ID/506024

Last edited by Kairo; 07/19/11 03:10 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3345188 - 07/19/11 02:19 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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look well at all this finest details in this Pic's ... incredible, really realistic 3D, and even it can move as real !
(rotate, go Up and down, open/close the door, open/close the fan's windows ...and with finest realistic shadow ! thumbsup )




isn't really finest realistic made and so beautiful !

is that what you are asking for Redcoalition ?

Last edited by Kairo; 07/19/11 03:15 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3345205 - 07/19/11 02:55 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Originally Posted By: Hpasp
I have some original questions:
first about that wheels:


3, target acquisition mode selector
.....
This rotating wheel has 4 settings, off-KO-MSP-BSP. The indicator is above it.

After the Vietnam war, all SAM battery received own target acquisition radar, and these were forbidden to use. (also suicidal)


Suicidal ? because of ANTI RADIATION MISSILE (ARM)? (I suppose !)

Last edited by Kairo; 07/19/11 03:17 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3345240 - 07/19/11 03:52 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Last edited by Kairo; 07/19/11 05:23 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3345266 - 07/19/11 05:23 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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For SA-3 I found only this free site, BASED ON YOUR OWN SAM SIMULATOR !! you are winner
http://files.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/59504/






may be it's what all want to see after Launching Somme Missiles yeah



Last edited by Kairo; 07/19/11 05:31 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3345339 - 07/19/11 10:58 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Looks impressive. But on the other hand, we can live without it (maybe in the Platinum or Game of the Year edition of SAM sim :))
3D anims sure are a 'nice to have' gadget but it would be better to have new systems implemented in the sim.

#3345386 - 07/19/11 12:35 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Redcoalition Offline
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Brazil
Originally Posted By: Kairo
look well at all this finest details in this Pic's ... incredible, really realistic 3D, and even it can move as real !
(rotate, go Up and down, open/close the door, open/close the fan's windows ...and with finest realistic shadow ! thumbsup )

isn't really finest realistic made and so beautiful !

is that what you are asking for Redcoalition ?

THIS MODELS'RE GREAT! Ok, they're "a bit" expensive (the SA-2 Battalion just $650 :D) but still...
It'd be great, but i think that would be pretty hard to implement a 3D engine on SAM Simulator. First because I think that, for exemple, the simulation of objects in the game are "point" simulations. I think (again, not sure) that Hpasp didn't programmed the dimentions for missiles because there's no need for it on the current simulator. But with a 3D engine it would be necessary to implement behavior according to object dimention (for angular momentum, etc), I think that, to have a realistic 3D SAM Simulator would demand a nice work on programming.

If he use a existent engine of some sort of simulator, he'd have to do a complete convertion of all the physics parameters of the game engine, because most of simulator's ballistic simulation isn't complete as the one in SAM Simulator. Then he would have to do animation programming, model behavior, etc, etc... It'd be pretty hard I guess... If, at least, he earn money for that...
But he don't, so I can live without 3D environment.


But the models are really great! If he mananged to do that, would be awesome, but what i really wanted was a SIM with all functions and positions on real SAM Battery. On Acquisition Radar, on Comunications Officer, etc... THAT would be great also..

Last edited by Redcoalition; 07/19/11 12:39 PM.
#3345440 - 07/19/11 01:36 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Kairo, I'm afraid you have to play Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2 as well smile

#3346177 - 07/20/11 05:23 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Timothy Offline
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Phoenix - Ft. Carson
Man, I am going to need to try this out.


Keep Calm and Check Canopy

There are no ex-paratroopers, only ones off jump status

Learn Economics at:
http://www.mises.org
Carthago delenda est
#3346240 - 07/20/11 09:04 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Hpasp, three rather detailed issues on Neva:

1) what is the difference between SDC 1 and SDC 2 (I can see some at the screen...) - in which situations use modes 1 and 2? (just don't explain again an idea of moving target indicator - we should already know it).

2) can in real life a missile be launched when target is in RS only? In the sim, at least ASAP in angles is required, and in range you can hold on RS.
If you are going to implement moving the antennas by keyboard, a manual tracking (AS mode, now non-existent) can be implemented as well (e.g. when the switch AS-ASAP on the right is 'up' ('AS'), then missile can be launched even if the antenna is being steered manually in all aspects. I don't know if scoring a hit under such conditions won't require an octopus at the keyboard, but seems worth trying. smile

3) how is the K3 implemented?
One time you wrote that: The rightmost "K3" is the same as the Volhov, detonate on radio command.
It seems to me that the idea is a bit different than in Volkhov. In Neva, when the missile crosses the range line, it does not detonate. I suspect that crossing the range mark just arms the radio fuse (by K3 command sent by radar). If yes, what is practical difference between RVSB/RV and K3? What are recommendations to use it in real life?
(if at RV-something the fuse is armed 60 m ahead of the target, and at K3 just AT the range of the target, which would mean that the missile has bigger chance to pass the target without detonating - Im a bit confused)
BTW, it seems that an equivalent of Volkhovs Rab-ot-VM (fuse arming by time delay) works automatically when the TT guidance method is selected (makes sense, if assumed that TT is to be used mainly for engaging jamming targets).

Do MK_PL: Dobrze widziec kolege z Polski na tym maniackim forum! (kto wie, czy jako jedyni nie reprezentujemy kraju uzywajacego jeszcze cokolwiek ze sprzetu, o ktrym sobie gadamy...)

Last edited by vintorez; 07/20/11 09:05 AM.
#3346280 - 07/20/11 10:34 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: vintorez]  
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Poland
Sorry other forum members, we have some intimate talk...

Do vintorez:
Witam, forum zaiste maniackie a temat niszowy.
SAM sima znalazlem przypadkiem i dosyc mnie wciagnal, nie powiem.
Widze, ze wiesz co nieco o tym sprzecie, ja tak tylko amatorsko sie tym interesuje. Czytalem troche wspomnien z Wietnamu i temat SAM-w czesto tam wystepowal.

Originally Posted By: vintorez


Do MK_PL: Dobrze widziec kolege z Polski na tym maniackim forum! (kto wie, czy jako jedyni nie reprezentujemy kraju uzywajacego jeszcze cokolwiek ze sprzetu, o ktrym sobie gadamy...)

Last edited by MK_PL; 07/20/11 10:35 AM.
#3346289 - 07/20/11 11:01 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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vintorez Offline
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smile

Przeskoczymy na 'prywatną' wymianę wiadomości? - zakładka na grze 'my stuff' i rozwija się menu 'messages'. Napisałem tam resztę.

For others: sorry for that smile

#3346293 - 07/20/11 11:06 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Kairo]  
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Brealistic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Kairo
look well at all this finest details in this Pic's ... incredible, really realistic 3D, and even it can move as real !
(rotate, go Up and down, open/close the door, open/close the fan's windows ...and with finest realistic shadow ! thumbsup )




isn't really finest realistic made and so beautiful !

is that what you are asking for Redcoalition ?



absolutely the best ! thumbsup

#3346634 - 07/20/11 04:47 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Looks impressive. But on the other hand, we can live without it (maybe in the Platinum or Game of the Year edition of SAM sim :))3D anims sure are a 'nice to have' gadget but it would be better to have new systems implemented in the sim.

Originally Posted By: Redcoalition
THIS MODELS'RE GREAT! Ok, they're "a bit" expensive (the SA-2 Battalion just $650 :D) but still...
It'd be great, but i think that would be pretty hard to implement a 3D engine on SAM Simulator. First because I think that, for exemple, the simulation of objects in the game are "point" simulations. I think (again, not sure) that Hpasp didn't programmed the dimentions for missiles because there's no need for it on the current simulator. But with a 3D engine it would be necessary to implement behavior according to object dimention (for angular momentum, etc), I think that, to have a realistic 3D SAM Simulator would demand a nice work on programming.

Hum ...! may be I haven't explained my self well !

Fist point: a Simulator of any systems, -and I have see a lot on my life dizzy -, must be realistic to switch as possible, with real views of buttons, switches, knobs, indicators lights, and gauges and real display on different main displays or scopes, ... and all others thinks must be also as real as the reality, like different sounds heard when some think is done, and even if mistake is done in this simulator mycomputer !, and certainly the same results of what we have do, as it was really done in reality (accurate as possible as on the ground!), there is the HEART of any serious simulator !

Second point: the way to use the simulator (procedures), must be strictly the same as real machine or systems who we want to simulate, no wrap up will be made in this procedures or guidelines, no "cut" or simplify of procedures or guidelines are made in simulator, if it's done, it will be a "fake" simulator, and all the game's simulator are in the reality a "fake" simulator, - in all airplane simulator you never use all required switch and knobs to power on the engines, or to take off or even landing! -may be except MS Flight Simulator-,

Third point: no points are given during using a simulators because it's like the reality, there isn't a game play with points, the SAM Simulator "includes accurate representations of history's most famous SAM kills... ", you must use the system you wont "right", to shut-down the enemy aircraft, before he Bombard you with an ARM Missile (in reality you will be Killed .... be happy not in "SAM Simulator"), and in this special case,- to not to be killed- we made real simulators, as airlines airplane simulator, to avoid harming any body when using real airplanes, or machines or even systems. You will be able to occupy the position of the operators -or pilots-, and use the same controls, with real guidelines to be used right ! -plane,machines,systems or others things-

- In this case, where is the positions of 3D animation? when can we introduce it in this simulator?

- One other importance of the simulator is to be able to analyse all what it done during the use of any simulator, detect the mistakes, learn the fault, analyse the latency of operators when operating the systems, and all other figures ..(we use it also for learning!)
and it's here when I think we can introduce the 3D analyses of the operation done! , maybe it's look hard, personally I think not at all, I have see that before, -sorry to not be able to tell you where-, but the idea was very simple !

look:
On running the simulator, we store all Data made by operator in some DATA Base created specially for 3D animation,(we store even the result of this manipulation of operator), according to real timing, at the end of simulation, and if the user want to see "what goes wrong in missing target", or analyse the trajectory of missile, or view "the missing distance", or why the missile crash, or all others things in his mind, the "DLL" of 3D animation will read this DATA Base and move the object according to the timing key in DATABase!.

This method have no relation at all with direct 3D Games animation, who requires a big staff an specialists in 3D animation to make all required textures and huge others things ...mycomputer, because the designer of this 3D Stuff, make it easy to use with direct Dll use! -the Dll read the DATA Base and make movement of objects -make the Operation's Animation!-

"Hpasp said in his site:
"The main goal during development was to simulate what the operators of the SAM battalion could see, and hear during engagement"
"

winnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinnerthumbsupwinner
Really this SAM Simulator is the BEST one I have used, even he is simple to use and Still under development, and he respect the rules of "SERIOUS" Simulator. (not Serious SAM the Gunman Game).
And I really hope that Hpasp keep looking forward and still developing and enhancing the "CORE" of SAM Simulator first, it's more important than all others secondary options.

And once the "CORE" of SAM Simulator is done,(and it's well and corrected bug's), we will (I hope), re-talking about this 3D Animation (for after report use and analysis only!)
Maybe the Stuff will be more cheaper than this day's,(at this price I need 1 year of economize ... screwy )

Last edited by Kairo; 07/21/11 04:43 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3347111 - 07/21/11 03:55 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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Originally Posted By: MK_PL
Kairo, I'm afraid you have to play Lock On: Flaming Cliffs 2 as well smile


I don't need to play this Game, when I would to plane, I ask my friend to take me white him around ... and I'm lucky!
I can choose between this two new Type of "Eagles":
MIG-29S:

SU-30MK:

and all staff will be happy to take me around with him:

and I will be sick dizzy dizzy dizzy for two day's minimum !


Sgt/C. Kairo
#3347164 - 07/21/11 06:06 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo, I answered your question, check your "My Stuff".

#3347197 - 07/21/11 07:47 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: MK_PL]  
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thank you MK_PL !

Last edited by Kairo; 07/22/11 09:47 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
#3348091 - 07/22/11 09:47 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
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Kairo Offline
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Hi!

I have found some Pic's of Ynk in one very estimable site:
is this Ynk Cabin is the same version we used in SAM Simulator? I have noticed some minor difference between the two,
and the "operator tracking" scope is not simulated !




there is some "add" in the left




and there is some talk here about automatic or manual tracking mode! (I suppose!)


is there some explanation Sir Hpasp?
and BTW I will be happy if any body have any Pic's, from any angle,
of the interior of Ynk Cabin (control fire cabin of C-125)! cheers
All pic's are welcome!

Last edited by Kairo; 07/22/11 11:06 AM.

Sgt/C. Kairo
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