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#3333583 - 07/02/11 07:17 PM Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd  
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ru_disa Offline
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ru_disa  Offline
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Hello,

I have a bet going on with my girlfriend. She's a propulsion engineer, she works on airplane engines (airliners' turbofans, mainly) but knows absolutely nothing about flying. I'm a flight simulation nerd.
Basically, she says that (in ideal conditions) the most stressful parts of a flight FOR THE ENGINES are take-off and landing. Landing, according to her, is just as stressful on the engines as take-off. My opinion, on the other hand, is that during landing approach and landing itself the engines are not under any particular stress, in fact the workload on the engines is reduced during landing approach. Landing is only stressful for the airframe itself.

So, care to throw in your two cents?


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#3333895 - 07/03/11 01:19 PM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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Paul Rix Offline
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Interesting question. On landing, the engines of aircraft with thrust reversers will be spooled up after touchdown. This may be a factor. Then there is the fact that when the airplane is on the ground there is significantly less airflow entering the engine which means a lot less cooling action. I would be interested in hearing her input on this.


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#3334374 - 07/04/11 07:53 AM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: Paul Rix]  
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juvat Offline
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My guess is she is correct. No pla change inflight cruise vs power lever angle movement while landing or takeoff, plus what the other guy stated about thrust reversers for landing.

Opposite for fighters though. I was a jetmech on f4,f16,f15 in the usaf. Lots of throttle use during maneuvers; and theres the varying flight envelope the aircraft are in while the pilot is maneuvering for advantage on his adversary.
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#3334671 - 07/04/11 06:12 PM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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ru_disa Offline
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ru_disa  Offline
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Are you telling me I lost the bet? Come on, guys, throw me a bone here! smile

Thanks for the feedback, though!


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#3337421 - 07/08/11 10:38 AM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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Avimimus Offline
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Blip switch = non-too-healthy ...I should suspect.

#3337761 - 07/08/11 08:20 PM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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f15sim Offline
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f15sim  Offline
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I would suspect that she's forgotten more about turbofan life cycles than you currently know. smile

When you're arguing with Ms. Right about stuff she's paid to know a lot about, it would be safe to assume that her first name is in fact, "Always". biggrin

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#3339670 - 07/11/11 05:33 PM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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Steely_Dan Offline
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A jet engine in the cruise is operating in ideal conditions, thin cold air, low moisture, and the speed of the aircraft providing ample airflow, so there is little concern of surge, or engine stall, so, all in all, I would say she's right.

#3340022 - 07/12/11 02:37 AM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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Lieste Offline
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The engine in t/o climb is operating in a high power regime - perhaps, initially 110% of cont rated power, reducing to 100% for the climb - this is obviously fairly stressful.

In cruise, the engines are loafing usually, obtaining maximum range for a given fuel burn and reasonable duration. A typical thrust setting for high altitude cruise would be around 70% of cont rated power. This is often at or near V (md). Any corrections for speed/climbrate are going to be small, and are not time-critical.

On descent first the power is retarded to reduce speed and lose altitude - it is usually flown at less than V(md) in order to take advantage of the higher drag at lower speeds, and to shorten the distance needed to let down (cabin re-pressurisation requires low descent rates). Thrust % may reduce from 25% initially to 13% just outside the TMA. This is more stressful than it sounds - the relatively cool air, and low power can cause problems with either icing or surging.

But worse is yet to come smile - on finals, the reconfiguration of surfaces now forces power back to around 60% to hold the approach path and speed, and also calls for power adjustments to follow the approach angle (remember pitch=speed, power=descent rate during the approach, and small deviations are all that are allowed without a missed approach & go-around). With correction for wind shear, or go-around full power may be commanded in a very short time.

Once you also include FOD damage (from runway debris, or bird strikes - the bird populations are much denser near ground level, particularly near lakes/marshland/coast which also make the most common sites for airfields) then the stress/risk on engines, pilots and airframes is at its worst near the ground, both on the way up, and on the way down.


#3342843 - 07/16/11 02:46 AM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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gmohr Offline
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gmohr  Offline
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Also, doesn't apply so much to turbines, but shock cooling on recip engines during the decent is a killer.


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#3346419 - 07/20/11 01:54 PM Re: Propulsion Engineer VS Simulation Nerd [Re: ru_disa]  
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ru_disa Offline
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ru_disa  Offline
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Well, sounds like she was definitely right, then. I should have kept my big mouth shut... Now I'm never gonna hear the end of this one...

Thank you again for your feedback, everybody!


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