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#3329148 - 06/27/11 05:34 AM Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition  
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citizen guod Offline
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Chuck "PFunk" Bellows reviews Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition.

http://SimHQ.com/_air13/air_474a.html


Wisdom is knowing what's enough
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3329155 - 06/27/11 05:49 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Really enjoyable read - cheers PFunk.

Gaijin are currently working on sequels, including a PC only title, so for a first go around I think it's a pretty good effort.

#3329156 - 06/27/11 05:52 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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citizen guod Offline
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You read fast FF biggrin


Wisdom is knowing what's enough
#3329164 - 06/27/11 06:05 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Originally Posted By: guod
You read fast FF biggrin


Yep, when I was 9 I had the reading speed of a 14 year old. Unfortunately I'm 43 now and still have the reading speed of a 14 year old... wink

#3329168 - 06/27/11 06:20 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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You forgot to mention, its still more fun to look at and play than 'CLOD' is..amazing isn't it?!

#3329231 - 06/27/11 09:41 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Right on the money.


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#3329251 - 06/27/11 10:34 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Yeah,it's a fair review although I never had all that hassle with the installation.
I will admit that YuPlay sucks,especially on top of Steam (which doesn't suck) and a few times YuPlay has offered me patches that put my installation back a few versions banghead
Maybe my fault for not reading what the patch was,I just assumed that if they offered me a new patch it would be newer than the version I was running.

MP is reasonable,although I rarely see more than half a dozen servers here in the UK.

Last edited by Chucky; 06/27/11 06:42 PM. Reason: edited server amount

A guy walks into a bar and hears two women speaking in a British accent. He asks, "Are you ladies from England?" One says to him "No, it's Wales, you idiot!" So, then the guy says, "Okay, sorry. So, are you two whales from England?"
#3329584 - 06/27/11 07:05 PM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Pitty the author couldn't find any players to go against in MP, I suppose it's something regional or I don't understand it. He posted on the SimHQ Gaijin forum asking why he can't find anyone online when he tries so I tried to go online as well when I had read it. In Southern Europe it was 3 am and when I got on there were no games showing. I created one without much hope of anyone joining me but very soon had a game with 6 people going. It doesn't always work but sometimes it does. MP is good fun.

I agree on some points mentioned. The customer experience leaves some to be desired and Gaijin could learn from reviews like this. It should be easy for (potential) customers to get and enjoy products, not hard.

I wish the author would have spent a bit more time with the game in Simulator mode and explain a bit closer what he meant by saying the FMs defy most Newtonian rules. I did a bit of testing of the latest flight models and the performance characteristics are very close to the historical models. In more ways than not I find the FMs to be correct. However, there are some aerodynamic issues which may be visible for experienced simmers or real life pilots. http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/3777-aerodynamic-principles/
http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/3598-fm-testing-since-1037-beta/

I should be adding that the immersion Wings of Prey creates due to its amazing graphics is perhaps the best I've ever seen.

MAC

Last edited by MACADEMIC; 06/28/11 11:28 AM.
#3329674 - 06/27/11 08:40 PM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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PFunk Offline
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To be fair, Mac, I think the title is far more popular where you are than where I am, and that's unfortunate. It's unfortunate because this game has potential and IT LOOKS AMAZING.

I really have been looking for a replacement for Jane's WW2 Fighters for a while now. CFS3 almost did it, but you needed the Airpower expansion in order for it look anything less than ugly. And even then, it wasn't a very good game.

IL2 was a cheating dog. I hated it for that very reason. It looked phenomenal, the flight dynamics were dead-on, but I didn't fly MP when it came out because unlike the rest of the country, I was in a rural area and living on dial-up internet. I loved the way it looked and flew, I hated the way it cheated in order to kill me.

I really wanted to like WOP and it pisses me off that I came away cold from it.



"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke

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#3329730 - 06/27/11 09:33 PM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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steeldelete Offline
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Thanks for the review, I had fun reading it.

I have the game, but don't play it. I used to just fly around.


cogito, ergo zoom
#3329743 - 06/27/11 09:45 PM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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That's a pretty fair review.. Although I find the FMs & DMs tolerable ... For example.. I find that in may ways the ballistics seem better.. and often I can line up a shot by just kicking a little rudder.. like pilot accounts state.. not the weeble wobble of IL2 in some planes.. It could be better but it's tolerable.. My biggest beef is the whole online thing and the lack of a mission builder of any kind.. The whole patching thing is a nightmare too.. Sometimes I have to log out and log back in.. several times to get updates.. The sounds could be better.. but I have managed to get some enjoyment out of WoP.. I think the latest release is much better than the original out of the box version.. but it still needs work.

A well written and very good review overall IMO..


Start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can.
#3329859 - 06/27/11 11:35 PM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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I agree with Bearcat that the DM an FM are adequate. I find them satisfying. I disagree wqith Pfunk about the sound. Overall, I don't agree with PFunk's assessment of Wings of Prey. I think it IS the successor to Janes WWII Fighters. Why? It is beautiful, cinematic and fun (the key word here is "immersion." These are among a minority of Russian developers who actually understand what that word means in the context of military flight sims. Are listening 1C? Eagle Dynamics?). And the FMs are believable enough.

I don't care about the lack of a mission builder. I've been playing PC flight sims since the 80s and have never once even TRIED to create a mission in any sim.

I don't care about the lacf of participation in MP because I rarely (and I do mean 'rarely') even attempt to log on to a MP server for a flight sim. Once or twice in a 12-month period, maybe.

I don't care about the so-called timer becausse I've never experienced it. How long do you have to play before encountering this mysterious timer? To me it's fun and done. I guess I never play long enough to experience the timer. But that goes for all flight sims, I guess. The genre doesn't hold my interest enough to play for hours on end, like I do with a Tom Clancy tactical shooter. FSX would be the one exception. I once flew a commercial airliner in real time from New York City to London. That was like six, seven consecutive hours in front of my PC. But a combat flight sim? No, I want combat. Immediately. No matter who wins or loses.

Wings of Prey is super good in my book. PFunk must've had a bad day, but he's forgiven.

Last edited by Plainsman; 06/27/11 11:44 PM.

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#3329871 - 06/27/11 11:57 PM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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That review was hysterical! Awesome job.


"A week or even a month for someone basically saying "shucks, this is pants" maybe. But their banhammer only has the forever setting. Gotta set phasers to stun for the localization of female undergarments, not kill yo." - Frederf
#3329947 - 06/28/11 01:48 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Eh, I can't say that I experienced any of the issues that the reviewer claims.

I did not buy from Steam as I was in the early access beta. Purchasing was easy at that time and so was purchasing the Wings of Luftwaffe add-on. Patching since the beginning has been a really simple experience using their own contained torrent client.

I also didn't wait til the end of the game's life cycle and pick it up for a song on a lark with the expectation of a thriving multiplayer community. As one who was there since the beginning, I in general found very little multiplayer action, but I also did not make a tremendous effort to find any as I was getting out of the genre altogether.

Perhaps I missed this fact in the review, but it is well known that the flight engine was based on the Il-2 series, so, if there are any faults to be found there, my assumption is that those would largely apply to the Il-2 engine in general.

As to the game being a console port, this is clearly a factual error. If you merely take the Xbox 360 version, you will know that the 360 is not capable of the kind of graphic effects found in the PC game. It's a much enhanced graphics engine that does DirectX 10 and of course at much higher resolutions.

If anything, the console versions are mere subsets of the PC game that would have been developed first, i.e. all games are developed on PCs. In addition, the PC version of the game supports, of course, TrackIR and any number of PC HOTAS and joystick peripherals.

I think what the reviewer might have said that would have been more accurate is that the PC version of the game included no additional gameplay modes or features than the console versions, which is fair if not totally accurate considering that I don't think the Wings of Luftwaffe add-on was available for the console. I could be wrong on that though.

Had the PC version come out first, one might have said the console versions were mere PC ports. At this point in the development of video games, these distinctions make little sense except where it is clear that a "port" suffers in quality compared to the "original" version. This is clearly not the case with the PC version as it is much enhanced over the console versions.

As to game difficulty and levels, I played through most of the game on Sim mode without any problems except in the ground missions, so I did not experience any of the fragility of ship/toughness of enemies problems that the reviewer found as I never played it in "pussy mode".

I also find it difficult to believe that most players of the game would be able to ferret out any supposed problems with the flight model or the ballistics, if those problems do exist, as most players have absolutely no frame of reference for making those assessments. Unless you've flown these planes in combat conditions, you don't know #%&*$# and those who have are now largely dead. The quality of the sim is generally based on verisimilitude rather than any real conformance to reality. It felt like a sim to me, so to me it is a sim, and the graphics made up for any failings that I might have looked for.

I note that the reviewer did not mention what is to my mind one of the coolest features of the game, the cinema verite camera mode in the gameplay replays. Ever wanted to make a bad-ass gameplay movie but have absolutely no video editing skills or no desire to get them?? Just watch as your recorded gameplay will switch from interesting moment to moment with that bobbing camera and varying framings that mimic action movie pulp. I frankly spent more time watching my replays than playing the game, which is perhaps not the best thing that could be said of a game, but I found it pretty compelling and really unique within the flight sim genre.

Overall, I think the reviewer chose to review the game at the wrong time and with the wrong attitude and focus.


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#3329959 - 06/28/11 02:07 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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We reviewed the Collector's Edition that shipped in the EU last month and has not yet been distributed in the US, so, it's about as recent as just about any other gaming site gets around to reviewing a simulation.


"A little luck & a little government is necessary to get by, but only a fool places his complete trust in either one." - PJ O'Rourke

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#3329964 - 06/28/11 02:19 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: Foucault]  
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Originally Posted By: Foucault
Eh, I can't say that I experienced any of the issues that the reviewer claims.

I did not buy from Steam as I was in the early access beta. Purchasing was easy at that time and so was purchasing the Wings of Luftwaffe add-on. Patching since the beginning has been a really simple experience using their own contained torrent client.

I also didn't wait til the end of the game's life cycle and pick it up for a song on a lark with the expectation of a thriving multiplayer community. As one who was there since the beginning, I in general found very little multiplayer action, but I also did not make a tremendous effort to find any as I was getting out of the genre altogether.

Perhaps I missed this fact in the review, but it is well known that the flight engine was based on the Il-2 series, so, if there are any faults to be found there, my assumption is that those would largely apply to the Il-2 engine in general.

As to the game being a console port, this is clearly a factual error. If you merely take the Xbox 360 version, you will know that the 360 is not capable of the kind of graphic effects found in the PC game. It's a much enhanced graphics engine that does DirectX 10 and of course at much higher resolutions.

If anything, the console versions are mere subsets of the PC game that would have been developed first, i.e. all games are developed on PCs. In addition, the PC version of the game supports, of course, TrackIR and any number of PC HOTAS and joystick peripherals.

I think what the reviewer might have said that would have been more accurate is that the PC version of the game included no additional gameplay modes or features than the console versions, which is fair if not totally accurate considering that I don't think the Wings of Luftwaffe add-on was available for the console. I could be wrong on that though.

Had the PC version come out first, one might have said the console versions were mere PC ports. At this point in the development of video games, these distinctions make little sense except where it is clear that a "port" suffers in quality compared to the "original" version. This is clearly not the case with the PC version as it is much enhanced over the console versions.

As to game difficulty and levels, I played through most of the game on Sim mode without any problems except in the ground missions, so I did not experience any of the fragility of ship/toughness of enemies problems that the reviewer found as I never played it in "pussy mode".

I also find it difficult to believe that most players of the game would be able to ferret out any supposed problems with the flight model or the ballistics, if those problems do exist, as most players have absolutely no frame of reference for making those assessments. Unless you've flown these planes in combat conditions, you don't know #%&*$# and those who have are now largely dead. The quality of the sim is generally based on verisimilitude rather than any real conformance to reality. It felt like a sim to me, so to me it is a sim, and the graphics made up for any failings that I might have looked for.

I note that the reviewer did not mention what is to my mind one of the coolest features of the game, the cinema verite camera mode in the gameplay replays. Ever wanted to make a bad-ass gameplay movie but have absolutely no video editing skills or no desire to get them?? Just watch as your recorded gameplay will switch from interesting moment to moment with that bobbing camera and varying framings that mimic action movie pulp. I frankly spent more time watching my replays than playing the game, which is perhaps not the best thing that could be said of a game, but I found it pretty compelling and really unique within the flight sim genre.

Overall, I think the reviewer chose to review the game at the wrong time and with the wrong attitude and focus.


Hi Foucault,

Just a quick correction, Wing of Prey doesn't seem to use DirectX 10 but the Direct3D 9 run-time (looking at the libraries it uses as it runs on my DX11 system). It also has some XNA common controller things still linked in, which shows it's original Xbox 360 origins.

As I think the reviewer said a few times, the game looks wonderful, so there's no complaints in that department.

As for the flight models being IL2's, I think there's all sorts of history there, as in Oleg and Co did license it originally but it got altered somewhat for Birds of Prey (PS3/Xbox 360) so that in the end it didn't end up that similar. I think there's some stuff on the Gaijin forums about this.

#3329977 - 06/28/11 02:36 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Enjoyable read, PFunk. smile


Chunx
#3330052 - 06/28/11 04:17 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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Raw Kryptonite Offline
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I think it was more of a Yuplay review. wink
Yuplay has one side that's a form of DRM, but that aspect is removed now. Yuplay is also their digital distribution outlet and method of matchmaking. The digital distribution and matchmaking don't have anything to do with activation limits...different subjects. You can't play 360 titles online without Live. You can't play PS3 titles online without PSN. You can't play WoW and many other online games without logging in. Yuplay is just another system among hundreds. It needs improvements, as I'll gov over next, but it's nothing evil. It doesn't take 2 days to patch and play this game, that's just plain silly.

Gotta say, I'm pretty sick of hearing "console port". These are created on pc, which is of course what a 360 is but with standardized hardware. PS3 is a different animal coding-wise, but I believe even that changeover is well in hand these days.
"Console port". "Chicken or the egg" says I. wink PC games typically have better use of peripheral devices, capable of adapting to a variety of hardware combinations and usually make use of more control options than a console (well, with Pinnacle I can get most anything going on a 360 controller...another discussion though). WOP meets each of those requirements, it's not simply the same game as IL2 Birds of Prey copy/pasted onto a pc. I'd say it benefits in being so well optimized for consoles that taking into account the pc's advantages, it ends up an even better product than if it were pc-only.

If you can't find a game it's due to a major shortcoming in the system---it doesn't show you ongoing games. Most that complain about this didn't try to open a room themselves (Pfunk may have though, I'm generalizing from past discussions). So, you don't see a game, didn't open a room...just like many others...many people take their ball and go home without really trying.
Ideally, the game would show you ongoing games, which ones have room in there, which ones are full, ping and give you a lobby to wait in and watch the action in the meantime. Almost all games have given up on this basic MP component. With a niche market, it looks like no one is playing, making a system like that even more crucial.
If you can't find a game, then start up your own room. Then you get an idea of how busy the game is. No lobby is bad for longevity though. With any luck they're making improvements in this area for the upcoming titles.

It should be noted that Pfunk seems to be looking for a hardcore sim. It's hard for many hardcore racers to go from iRacing back to rFactor or Simbin titles (other than cost factor). Doesn't change that they're all sims. It is what it is, and WOP hits it's target as intended. Very well at that. There's no shame in it, Gaijin did a great job. Don't buy a BMW expecting a Mercedes. They're both great cars, but simply different. Pfunk gives that perspective pretty well for those looking for one or the other, just in a fairly negative sense rather than objective. The review is appreciated regardless. I think a Cliffs of Dover review would be more beneficial these days, being a recent release (well, not so recent anymore). I hope that's coming soon, I cancelled my pre-order due to discussions in the forum "best not mentioned", I'd like to get some facts.
thumbsup


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#3330066 - 06/28/11 04:49 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: Raw Kryptonite]  
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I agree a console port is not necessarily a bad thing, and the quality can often be higher in the graphics department, but there are down-sides too. For example the Xbox 360 has 512Mb of system RAM, and a graphics pipeline based around DirectX 8 with a 256MB GPU.

Wings of Prey is expanded outside what Birds of Prey did, but the major assets used are still limited by what the consoles could handle, i.e. the map size, the complexity of the models and the various effects. For a lot of games this doesn't matter, but the harder-core you get for a sim then the more it's harder to manage.

The networking/multiplayer side of WoP is similar to the console versions in that it uses the 'peer to peer' method where the play acts as a server on their own machine. This is how a lot of Xbox/PS3 titles work, but limits how many simultaneous connections people can handle. I agree with you that something like Yuplay needs to be used to at least register players to each other. A dedicated server and the ability to do things like user mods is something Gaijin seems keen on for the WoP sequel coming next year.

The Yuplay patching was hard-work for me, in that it took a long time to update all the various patches (not two days, but on my 50mb net about 5 hours). The version I downloaded from Yuplay seemed really out of date (i.e. they gave me the base game, at least 10 patches behind) so I think it does warrant some criticism and room for improvement.

As for CoD, I think the often repeated stance is that when it's released in the US then SimHQ will review it. I own both and think they are quite different styles of game.

#3330070 - 06/28/11 05:07 AM Re: Review: Wings of Prey: Collector's Edition [Re: citizen guod]  
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On the map, it's larger than it appears on the map screen since it zooms out as you go beyond the border. However, what you call a limitation I call game design. The map is perfect for what they want the game to be. For me, variety of terrain and locations is far more important than flyable, but useless, territory. Game design. It does what it's intended to do and, like I said, it does it well.


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