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#3328045 - 06/25/11 09:52 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Piorun]  
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Originally Posted By: Piorun
I don’t understand - if you want to fly on the side of Serbia, while sitting in the cockpit of F-16C? wink

I am in favor of flying so close to reality as possible. Therefore, I would not make unrealistic changes in the operation of the simulator.
....
PS. I wonder how many people around the world use the my small CampaignEditor? - I think that only a few which makes me not too much optimism.


No, no, I don't want to fly F16 on serbia's side. I can do that if I want it to, no problem.
But, I want to change/rename default team name from slovenia to something different, like, USA, NATO, whatever, just not slovenia.
When talking "realism", when did you even heard about slovenian F16's ?? Don't think so.
Such small country, they even don't need jets, could fly over to eg. Poland, for just 5 minutes after takeoff wink
Using their airbases as NATO faction is something different and totally wanted/needed.

You see, the team sides and flags were good as about patch 1.07, after that it got totally broken.
So, I have "repaired" that by correcting wch strings and replacing flags in file.
But that is just the workaround.
TEAM 2 (slovenia) after my repair, is not slovenia anymore, then USA, like default Korea.
And TEAM 1 is NATO as default.
It is just how you change representation of that TEAM you want to use.
Depends on the campaign and campaign-art files itself.
For Balkan, default player team is TEAM 2.
So if you could enable team editing then there wouldn't be need for editing of wch files, replacing default strings for that team.
You would use default names, because all teams exist, but they are just mixed up in campaign file.
Even more, you could then form another alliances, with eg. Croatia or Bosnia.
So if you think you can enable this or maybe you have some extra spare time to explain me how to do it, I couldn't be more grateful.
....
Holy sh***, don't even think about "who" would use your campaign editor or its benefits.
I can promise you that there are more people that you can even think of.

P.S. Ahem, Piorun, Polak, and guys, maybe you could check, but it is DirectX 7, not 8/.1, for Falcon I mean. smile
Hehe, old, dusty and rusty, but anyway, doesn't really matters, does it?
Falcon flies good even on "old" machines,... and always will wink

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3328089 - 06/25/11 10:55 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Polak]  
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Originally Posted By: Polak
I would like to add promptly, that I have just received and read Piorun's email he was so kind to send me. There, in the email, are very interesting comments and observations about his work and Falcon in general.
Piorun, I shall respond to your mail asap and I am glad and full of fresh enthusiasm that suddenly there is something very interesting happening in Falcon.


"Something very interesting happening in Falcon" is good news indeed. I wonder what that might be? itsabeta

#3328095 - 06/25/11 11:05 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: LoD_Viper]  
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Quote:
I wonder what that might be?

Here I was merely refering to this very thread. I got to hear about it and new Piorun's tool on the other forum. There are things, or two on the horizon, but enough hijacking of this,I repeat again, very interesting topic.
Sorry for diggression. offtopic exitstageleft

#3328156 - 06/26/11 12:26 AM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Polak]  
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white_fang - please, watch the planes are stationed at the airports of Slovenia using the editor. In the second column contains the owner of the squadron. If I am not mistaken it does not have any squadron that would belong to Slovenia. Even if you change your name on the U.S. team, and so did not fly U.S. aircraft but only a NATO plane. If you exchange them in places that NATO will not have airplanes. The only option is to modify the owner field in the squadron record. Even if I had made the possibility of changes in the value of this field is you would have to manually change this in all NATO squadrons - do you really want you to do it just does not fly on the side of NATO. After all this, and so the blue side!

If you want to create additional alliances, I think that probably none of that. The game engine there are only two sides: blue and red - neutral are treated as blue because they do not shoot heaven for you, but you can not shoot them. Neutral country is highlighted by the engine that does not attack anyone. Just in the campaign can not be three sides to the conflict. If two neutral countries enter into an alliance, and so this new alliance is neutral.
If a neutral country enters into an alliance with one of conflict side it becomes automatically hostile to the other side.

Minimum System Requirements
OS: Windows 98/ME/2000/XP
Processor: 1.5 GHz
Memory: 384 MB
Hard Drive: 1.6 GB Free
Video Memory: 64 MB
Sound Card: DirectX Compatible
DirectX: 9.0b
Keyboard & Mouse
CD/DVD Rom Drive

As you can see Falcon 4.0 Allied Force required a minimum of DX 9.0b. However, require a use that does not mean the same thing. In terms of graphics there are three milestones: DX7, DX8 and DX10. DX8 and DX9 are very similar - Version 8 introduces the concept of pixel and vertex shader but in version 9 only improved it. Therefore, from the standpoint of program code between the DX7 and DX8 is a big difference in the construction of the game, but between DX8 and 9, the difference is more subtle. DX10 introduces many new concepts and requires a new operating system.
Interestingly, the game may require you to install DX9, but almost no use of new opportunities. For example, can not use the shaders run just like the DX7. Looking at the graphics quality Falcon AF I think that this is so, but obviously I can not guarantee - you have to ask the LP.

I want to try growing strength in the face of a graphical editor, plus something like TacEd. It would be designed more for campaign building than the players. Unfortunately, such a project is already pretty big deal. Also could not include windows RECON (3D view) which would be very much needed when positioning static objects on a map (buildings, trees, bridges, etc.). But I do not know whether the 2D positioning itself sufficient for precise editing. If I undertook this work then a window for editing the various structures is rather obvious.

I thought it would be worthwhile to consult with the guys from the PMC Tactical forums but a few days waiting for activation confused

#3328178 - 06/26/11 01:14 AM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Vortex]  
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Quote:
Interestingly, the game may require you to install DX9, but almost no use of new opportunities. For example, can not use the shaders run just like the DX7. Looking at the graphics quality Falcon AF I think that this is so, but obviously I can not guarantee - you have to ask the LP.



And the reason is the FalconAF uses to store the textures PCX 256 colors paletized file format (8bit). LP elected to leave the graphic on that level. Only later the dds format was introduced by subsequent developers of Falcon. Those and other changes in the code are in a way what makes the Falcon4 world now so divided.

@Piorun
No denial that PMC is the best depository of informations about falcon files. However, those are not exactly what you might consider the most current infos. IMHO the best information you can obtain is to join one of the Dev groups (FF, OF, BMS???) or from truly great and briliant guy named Monster (developer and author of recent Terrain Editor). If you want, I can give you his contact NP.

#3328182 - 06/26/11 01:35 AM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Polak]  
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Originally Posted By: Polak

And the reason is the FalconAF uses to store the textures PCX 256 colors paletized file format (8bit). LP elected to leave the graphic on that level. Only later the dds format was introduced by subsequent developers of Falcon. Those and other changes in the code are in a way what makes the Falcon4 world now so divided.


For palletized textures very easily did the night light of the city, or NV. Unfortunately DX9 does not guarantee the native support for these textures in the graphics card memory. On DX9 shader NV have to do and that's a serious change in the logic code.

Quote:

IMHO the best information you can obtain is to join one of the Dev groups (FF, OF, BMS???) or from truly great and briliant guy named Monster (developer and author of recent Terrain Editor). If you want, I can give you his contact NP.


Of course. Very please tell me if you can. I will be grateful.

#3328442 - 06/26/11 10:01 AM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Piorun]  
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Quote:
I want to try growing strength in the face of a graphical editor, plus something like TacEd. It would be designed more for campaign building than the players. Unfortunately, such a project is already pretty big deal. Also could not include windows RECON (3D view) which would be very much needed when positioning static objects on a map (buildings, trees, bridges, etc.). But I do not know whether the 2D positioning itself sufficient for precise editing. If I undertook this work then a window for editing the various structures is rather obvious.


Very interesting agenda. Please review what has been already RECENTLY accomplished.I realize that you talking here improving TacEdit, but I suggest to try to get in touch with Monster to see if any of that has not been already worked on.

Links to PMC Tactical forum topic with Monster's Terrain Editor:
http://tactical.nekromantix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=22353
and his home forum with software section where Terrain Editor informations reside:
http://forum.eastmedfront.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=268

Later I'll try to get some informations about other related tools and their most recent versions.


#3328502 - 06/26/11 12:03 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Polak]  
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Unnecessary duplication of solutions is something we try to avoid. But I do not think about modifying or creating terrain files that is not in any way interfere with the Monster’s TEU.

Rather, I'm trying to write TacEdit for AF. But I do not know who wrote TacEdit and whether there is a possibility of contact. Maybe instead of writing a new version TacEdit2 would be better to share my source code the author?

#3328603 - 06/26/11 02:16 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Vortex]  
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TacEdit was created by Julian Onions <j.onions@nexor.co.uk>, but that is quite a history long ago and author is not active in Falcon4 anymore.As it is written in credits Snakeman of PMC Tactical is the guy who surely might be knowing something about this program. Sherlock is also very nice and helpful guy there, when you have registration ask about him.

The reason I have mentioned Monster is that his Terrain Editor is not only editing terrain files. There are other modules in his program addressing objectives and something to do with campaigns. Who knows what is he working now on? He is rather very active and is supporting his Terrain Editor Utility all the way. He is also very, very nice and helpful.

Unfortunately, I am not familiar with anything, but terrain files and textures for Falcon4. But this aint that bad, as you mentioned graphics in F4 may use some overhaul.

#3328614 - 06/26/11 02:27 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Polak]  
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@Polak

I'm sorry but still waiting for the activation of the PMC and from today I am waiting for activation to forum.eastmedfront.net.
So I can not make contact with Monster.

Quote:
But this aint that bad, as you mentioned graphics in F4 may use some overhaul.


Could you expand a little this statement?

Last edited by Piorun; 06/26/11 02:40 PM.
#3328643 - 06/26/11 03:11 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Piorun]  
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Quote:
Could you expand a little this statement?

What I meant is, that I am not too experienced in any of the Falcon4 area of expertise with exception of perhaps terrain graphics. This I may help if any advice, or answer to the question needed. What I also have become more familiar is Monster's new Terrain Editor which I consider the best and indispensible tool for any terrain maker. Using "find and replace" feature, which I confess was included by Monster's specifically upon my request, one can create really quite decently looking tiled terrain. I use here "tiled" terrain on purpose because in the past I was very disappointed and frustrated with how monotenous and repetitive were the looks of the terrain tiles. This was at some point really a show stopper, which was now fortunately partially overcome. You all will be a judge, hopefully soon.

#3328666 - 06/26/11 03:49 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Polak]  
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Could you write when and how is created the kneemap.gif file.
Do you first applied for new terrain tiles and then a tool for doing "photo from the top" or perhaps kneemap.gif file is just a base for laying tile?

#3328873 - 06/26/11 08:24 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Piorun]  
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Kneepad.gif is simply a 1024x1024 gif file located C:\Program Files\FreeFalcon5\theaters\name_of_the_specific_theater\campaign

Of course ideally it would be to make kneepad as close as possible to the project terrain. To my knowledge it has not been done yet. Tere were not that many people who really did terrain from the start. It is being done with CATE which is another nifty script program to lay tiles according to the map.

Most of the terrain done are PMC terrains made by Snakeman. As a basis , he uses colored bitmaps where each color represents different type of terrain. It is little more complex than that and I am not going perhaps to bore here with the details, but I would say only that this step of creating terrain is where this monotony and repetition is being born. Having said this, despite so many years, no one came with any better solution so I guess this is how it is beeing done.

Nowadays, there are some more tricks and techniques to make the terrain more interesting than that when using just CATE.

#3328902 - 06/26/11 08:55 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Polak]  
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OK. But how to ensure that it is exactly kneemap.gif positionally correlated with the terrain and especially of roads and rivers.
As a background in TE (in FalconAF) is just used kneemap.gif. If I put in my editor, for example, a bridge at the junction of the river and the road he must lie very exactly on the corresponding pixels on the tile. If kneemap will not be perfectly correlated with the texture of the area it will be bad it can be seen in the game. Is there another file where you can accurately determine the location of rivers and roads?

#3329045 - 06/27/11 12:41 AM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Piorun]  
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Quote:
Is there another file where you can accurately determine the location of rivers and roads?

Yes, that would be I believe a tac file where coordinates of every object is recorded.
Kneemap is not really coordinated.

Yes, you can see objects in TE which are on the background of kneemap and they appear of course in the right place, but precise x,y positions of objects are really coming from the terrain work (as far as rivers/roads/bridges are concerned). I should not be pretending that I know this for sure, but I believe that campaign editing person takes coordinates of the road/river crossings=bridges from the Terrain Editor and enters them into the tac file.

In our recent project we have specifically agreed between me (doing the terrain tiles) and campaign guy placing 3D objects on the map, that bridges will be precisely in the middle of the tile , which can be easy determined. This allows the bridge models to be exactly over the river and in the center of the road.

Now if you think that roads and rivers are in precise coordination with the real maps - they are not. They are just "close".

#3329463 - 06/27/11 03:50 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Vortex]  
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Just be sure to realize that terrain features such as rivers, roads, forests, city landscapes are "Painted" on the terrain tiles.

3D models are used for bridges, city buildings/structures, nuclear plants, power plants, army bases, junctions, etc.

The 3D models "sit" on top of the terrain mesh and the terrain tiles.

Hope this helps.

Sherlock
aka LoD Viper

#3329537 - 06/27/11 05:46 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: LoD_Viper]  
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Fragment of the object structure (one of the elements in the file Save#.cam which is part of the campaign).

Code:
struct BaseObject
{
 VUID                  m_ID; // 
 ushort        m_EntityType; // 
 short                  m_X; // Position X (grid !!!)
 short                  m_Y; // Position Y (grid !!!)
 float                  m_Z; // Absolute height (smooth)
 ulong           m_SpotTime; //
        . . . 

To put an object on the terrain grid, eg a bridge or plant I need to know three numbers m_X, mY and m_Z. As far as I can calculate m_Z from terrain mesh file (C: \ FALCON_40 \ terrdata \ Balkans \ terrain \ theater.l0) is the number m_X and m_Y get knowing from position of the mouse ptr while dragging the object icon on the background map (kneemap.gif). However, if kneemap.gif is not exactly correlated with tiles “painted area” will hatch. Of course the agreement that the objects are always in the middle of the tile is very valuable because it removes the problem of variable precision m_X (note the type of short rather than float).



Very interesting position of the bridge smile

@ Sherlock - maybe you know how I can contact the admin PMC. Waiting a few days to activate but no activation email !

Last edited by Piorun; 06/27/11 06:04 PM.
#3329598 - 06/27/11 07:30 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Piorun]  
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Originally Posted By: Piorun
@ Sherlock - maybe you know how I can contact the admin PMC. Waiting a few days to activate but no activation email !


@Piorun:

PM me your information here at SimHQ (i.e., you selected username and email) you registered with at PMC and I will PM Snake Man at PMC to request your account be set up immediately.

Also, if you are actually going to develop a terrain editor for 3D objects you need to be aware that the current terrain installers actually work from the xxxxx.L2 file and not the xxxx.L0 file. This is to avoid downloading that huge xxxxx.L0 file in the theater installer file. When this method was created back in the circa 2000-2001 era downloading gigabyte size files was unknown of course. This is the reason why the xxxxx.L2 file was used instead of the xxxxx.L0 file for terrain building. If you want to sign up to create a new terrain installer program that would work from the xxxxx.L0 file that would be fantastic. It has long been needed to get that additional accuracy. However, if you don't want to do this, then your terrain editor will need to work on the xxxxx.L2 file and not the xxxx.L0 file.

The current names of the terrain installers I am aware of are: (1) "HTTI.exe" which comes from HiTiles installation for Allied Force and (2) "SPTinstall.exe" which was developed for use with the Falcon SuperPAK series of community upgrades. There may be a new installer for FreeFalcon 5.x but I don't know anything about that. Someone with FF5.x experience will need to chime in to answer that question.

Hope this helps.

Sherlock
aka LoD Viper

Last edited by LoD_Viper; 06/27/11 07:45 PM.
#3329663 - 06/27/11 08:34 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: LoD_Viper]  
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@Sherlock - I'm not going to do a new Terrain Editor. I try to do the Campaign Editor/Builder for an existing terrain/theater. According to my point of view Save#.cam the file is elements of the campaign not a theater, but you can have a different opinion. I would like editor to create a set of the necessary files to a directory such as C:\FALCON_40\Campaign\Iran2012 that 3*Save#.cam, Strings.xxx etc.
Everything based at pre-existing terrain data files from the directory C:\FALCON_40\terrdata but not modify them.

Where theater ends and where the campaign begins, I am not sure.

Is the land height is calculated on the basis of L2 and L0 is a matter to be determined. L0 is large but accurate, L2 smaller and somewhat less precise - which to choose, of course, you know better and not myself. I never was creating new terrain/theater. Maybe the choice of L0 or L2 leave the option on the menu - I do not know it yet.

In addition, working with a large terrain mesh file is not a problem in Windows because exist function for mapping the file in memory (no need to load the entire file, only the currently needed pages).

Last edited by Piorun; 06/27/11 08:48 PM.
#3329823 - 06/27/11 11:01 PM Re: Any way to move a squadron (especially helicopters)? [Re: Piorun]  
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Originally Posted By: Piorun
@Sherlock - I'm not going to do a new Terrain Editor. I try to do the Campaign Editor/Builder for an existing terrain/theater.....


Ok. I misunderstood where you were headed with this discussion. But a campaign editor (like TacEdit) for AF would be a wonderful thing. That would be a very wonderful thing if it had most of the power of the old TacEdit but worked for AF.

By the way, I heard from Snake Man at PMC Tactical. He said your account has been validated. He also said he had emailed you with a question but never heard back from you so he took no action up until now. Your account should be active now and you should probably have received an email from him by now that has your username and temp password for PMC login.

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