Hi all

I've been a long time lurker on these pages and have seen that a lot of you folks have some decent bits of kit for simming with, so I thought I would tap the depths of collective expertise that resides here.

I have been playing flights sims since the days of F29 Retailiator and Knights Of The Sky on me trusty amiga and have now finally decided to trade in my twisty (rudder) joystick (Cyborg fly 5) for some proper pedals, throttle etc.

I have been looking at the Logitech G940 which comes with the whole set, stick, throttle and pedals, for about £250ish but am wondering if it is worth while forking out the extra cash and go for the Thrustmaster Warthog and get a set of pedals to go with???

I know the Warthog and pedals will set me back a fair bit more and having read both positive and negative reviews for both I am stunned with indecision...

Any advice/tips/help, would be very welcome

Cheers

Wayne

There are other options as well either Saitek, or my personal favorite CH Products gear , which should pretty much last you a lifetime of simming. The G940 from every second report I read is either broken, and or of poor quality. I can't see FFB being worth it if the unit is always broken.

Cheers
Craig

Hi Wayne,

I faced your situation about 4 weeks ago and went for the Logitech . I owned a X52 before. So I cannot comment on how long it will last or how often it will be broken, but it feels not to be of poor quality. If feels solid, heavy and precise. SimHQ as a review about it here: http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_155a.html

I suspect the TM stuff to may be even more solid, but I am not willing to pay the price.

And, I like FF, with WW1 and WW2 Simulations it makes sense, IMHO.

Michael.

I have the Warthog and a new set of Saitek Combat pedals. I can't comment about the pedals as I only got them yesterday and bar taking out of the box I haven't had chance to try them yet.

The Warthog is well worth the money though, I had a modded Cougar for about 6 years previously and the Hog is going to last a lot longer given it's quality and precision.
Ok so it's not FF but it more than makes up for that in the solid metal construction.
Bear in mind if you're used to 'whimpy' i.e. slack joysticks the Warthog will be a shock as the stick resistances are muscle-building, though nothing on the scale of the stock Cougar.

I would definately budget for a Track IR in your planning as this little bit of kit is more valuable than any joystick.

(You'll still need a joystick)

Quality of build doesn't really make up for lack of function?

To actually simulate flight you do need to stick that goes from zero resistence (eg stalled or stationary) to rock-hard (diving at VNE+, when only the trim wheel will pull you up) - a stick that requires muscle to move when there are no aerodynamic forces acting upon it is not really simulation.

In truth it depends what you are flying - GA, WW1, WW2, look for an old MS FFB2. Not as macho as a hog, but closer to reality.
Modern stuff - as recommended above.

As for TrackIR there are alternatives...

Cheers,
Keith

Thanks to everyone for the advice so far,

I already have TrackIR 5, and have been using that for about a year, can't imagine how I ever played a flight sim without one!!

Must admit I do have an old MS Sidewinder 2 FFB joystick, but I can't say that the force feedback impressed me that much.

I'm another Warthog owner. Previous Cougar guy before that and also had various Saitek and TM sticks before that. I'm very staisfied with mine, even for WWI/WWII type sims. Wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. Good luck with your new purchase, what ever it is! S!

CH stuff for me - combatstick, pedals and throttle. Stay accurate and don't break.

RedToo.

CH trio here too.

lack of function?

Are you kidding me, have you actualy tried a Warthog or even looked at photo, there is more function there than you can shake a stick at lol.

I've tried various FF sticks over the years and they've all stopped functioning over time, so I'd more rather the budget for a stick be spent on durability than a function that gives up the ghost after a few months.

The resistances on the warthog are just right IMO, slight in the middle, stacking up according to the amount of deflection, I.e. Pretty much what you described. Ok so you' re not going to have the same fidelity as a FF that is working correctly, but then as I've said when it fails where does it leave your simulated forces?

In an ideal scenario a mating of a warthog and a reliable, durable, FF function that is selectable would be my ideal set-up but ofc the cost would make it even more of a niche product than the Hog already is.

It doesn't have a force-feed-back function...that's all I'm saying, build quality doesn't change that. I'm sure that with a billion buttons, for Falcon or Lockon its perfect, but for RoF?

There are only a few sims that use FF properly (ie not mostly for bangs and bumps), e.g. BoB2, RoF, Condor, for those a MS FFB2 is the best I know of. YMMV.

When an aircraft stalls you can whang the stick side to side, backwards and forwards, with no resistence at all, irrespective of the deflection, in a max speed dive for some aircraft you can't move it at all, irrespective of the deflection.

Cheers
Keith

Read this review from Joe Keefe. Gives a run-down on the major offerings.

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_094a.html

I have a 940. The FFB is very nice. You said you weren't so impressed with the sidewinder, I've heard that the 940 is similar. I like the way the stick feels, It has a mechanical 'connected to something' feel. Very good indications of airflow and stall. That said, my profiler doesn't work and neither do either of the rotaries on the throttle. Or the hats on the throttle. And the buttons on the throttle don't work half the time. So... Pretend there is just two throttles over there (they work fine), ignore the rest and it is sweet. If I had to do it over I would probably get the CH.

Can't say I've tried out many sticks but just got my hands on a MSFFB2 and the way I see it force feedback is a great way of "feeling" the plane.
It made a big difference for me.
Now I'm looking for a Saitek x45/52 throttle with pots/wheels for trimming.

Btw I love twistrudder but haven't tried pedals.

In short, FFB is a must for me. Makes the world of a difference.

It all comes down to whether your priority is flying or systems...both are equally valid, but it focusses the choice of stick.

Just bought an X45 from ebay
Are you saying the throttle can be used standalone? It's got a serial connection to the usb stick.
Cheers
Keith

I've had my MSFFB2 stick for years and, touch wood , it'll keep working like a champ. Back in the day I've owned various sticks from Thrustmaster and CH. Unfortunately every one of them developed spiky potentiometers which, sometimes, could be temporarily fixed with contact spray -- sometimes not. Bought extra pots (luckily they were quite cheap) for those that COULD be replaced, but what a pain! This was pre-USB days when you plugged into a game port (usually on the sound card!) or, like many of us, you bought a dedicated game card with dially-things to just extend your misery.

The last straw for me was buying at top dollar a TM Cougar system. I watched my right bicep grow as I manhandled that beast (causing much speculation amongst my former "friends" about this disproportionate physical development). Sadly both the Cougar stick and throttle likewise got spiky. Then I burned out my throttle because I committed the grievous sin of flashing the latest firmware update across my stick without unplugging my throttle first!

Now the proud owner of a $300 Cougar matched paperweight set, I picked up a Microsoft MSFFB2 stick complete with the fabulous Sidewinder 4 programming software (not supported beyond Win98 IIRC) as a stopgap as I considered remortgaging the house to get a 3rd party gimbal system with Hall sensors for my still-smoking Cougar paperweights. To mu utter surprise, I LIKED the MSFBB2 stick. No matter that you needed to reach cross body across my once-svelte/now corpulent torso to activate the four (count 'em) buttons on the base - the stick bloody worked!!!!! Could even adjust the centering force, tone down the gun yammering to not throw off your aim..... All for $59 (at the time). Wished I'd picked up one or two more, just for backup. Or ten more, to resell them now!!!

Like you said you will need the stick to use the throttle. Think the X52 is stand-alone though.

I changed my Saitek X52 to a Logitech G940 and I love it. Also because I wanted to fly a two engine plane.

TrackIR is a given, glad you have one!

Still on my first-gen Saitek X52, supplemented by Saitek Pro Rudders and CH Throttle Quadrant.
Might go FFB some day if something as reliable and good as msffb2 comes out ever again, but till then my X52 does the job specifically because of it`s reliability.