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#3303140 - 05/25/11 01:03 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: godzilla1985]  
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Originally Posted By: godzilla1985
I did a Q&A with Vlad awhile back. In that Q&A and in personal conversations he did indicate he wanted MP to be a feature in SA:BoW, but unfortunately the publisher wasn't interested or unable to shell out the cash to impliment it. If you look up ND Games and look at thier game roster you will see MP isn't a major selling point of the games they publish. Graviteam (a small development team of less then 10 people) does not have deep pockets so they can't finance it themselfs. Again if I understood my conversations with Vlad the next armor sim Graviteam is planning after SA:BoW will probably be sold in house and will most likely have MP if sells of SA:BoW are good. With good support from the fans of these sims ($$$$) developers like Vlad and his company Graviteam can give us the features we want. Also consider that SA:BoW will only be the third armor simulator from Graviteam for public consumption, of which they saw only minimal returns on SFK42 thanks to a certain publisher going bankrupt (if they broke even on SFK42 they were lucky) And the second simulator SFK:42 Fall Blau never saw the light of day due to problems with another publisher. Achtung Panther Kharkov 1943 was probably the only venture that Graviteam has turned a modest profit on to date (and probably kept the company from going under). I have had many conversations with Vlad and despite the bad sales luck he has had with the first two armor simulators he is determined to give us the best armor simulators he and his team can develope, and I am totally convinced that if he gets our support we are going to see some wonderful stuff coming our way.


Very well said. I will keep this in mind with respect to my decision to purchase this sim. I've enjoyed SFKharkov42 but have always considered it a sim which could have had just a bit more. By that I mean the documentation really needed better translating to english, particularly the scenario editor. Joystick support was lacking, I could never get my Saitek X-52 to work with it properly.

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#3303618 - 05/25/11 10:04 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: enigma6584]  
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Thank you for the open mind enigma6584 thumbsup. I have talked with Vlad quite a bit over the last couple years and believe me from what Vlad has told me SFK:42 would have turned out much differently upon release and follow up had things not gone so badly with the now defunct western publisher. SFK:42 should have been too WW2 armor sims as Il:2 is to WW2 flight sims. Thankfully many dedicated modders stepped forward and helped bring SFK:42 much further then could have be imangined in the begining. All things considered I am still in awe that Vlad and Graviteam even decided to continue making armor sims for the PC when much more lucrative options were possible for his company to switch over too (ie console games). From my POV it speaks highly of the mans vision, and Graviteams dedication to the genre.
cheers


"It's the man, not the machine" Gen Chuck Yeager
#3304399 - 05/26/11 07:56 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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Topo Offline
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...mmmh
Steel Fury and Achtung Panzer: Kharkov are two great games imho, and i think this sim can be even better.
I hope good business for Graviteam and good sims for us.

Saluti!


Yes, I'm Italian
No, I never voted for Berlusconi...
#3305327 - 05/27/11 09:27 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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The game looks very promising! I played steel fury quite a lot, and enjoyed it mostly. I have a few suggestions/remarks/questions to make for Blaze of war, hoping it´s not too late:

1. The sound engine: Steel Fury´s was an immersion killer. Sounds, no matter how far away their source was, sounded either close or really close. No consideration for distance/volume and the fact that you´re sitting inside a tank (birds´ chirping away during a 10+ tank battle). I often listened for machine gun fire to quickly determine the bearing of enemy tanks. Mind you, the tanks were at times 1200m away, but it was so loud you would think your firing your own MG.

Also, light and sound travelled at the same velocity in the game: A grenade impact 800m away observed through the sights would be accompanied by a simultaneous sound of explosion. As we all know, the sound should - if you can hear it at all inside ur tank - reach you only after u see the impact/explosion.

Another thing for the experts: What does it sound/feel like when you´re inside a tank and get hit by multiple grenades? I am asking because in Steel Fury you´re oblivous to what´s going on until u get to the debrief and see that ur Tiger is covered with all sorts of coloured lines. I would assume that a 152mm heat round to the side of the turret would cause quite a bang.


2. Infantry: Soldiers were out of proportion. Their helmets were huge, looking like 50´s sci-fi aliens. This was further helped by the tight gray uniforms of german infantry. Also, rifles looked to be as long as the men carrying them. I would have liked to see some variation in infantry equipment too, like backbags, ammunition pouches, etc.

3. Muzzle Flash: This applies to all weapons in game. The flashes were too bright and large in relation to RL, again IMO an immersion killer.

4. Radio communcation: Can we expect some development in that area? I was hoping for orders coming in over the radio, as well as radio communcation between units. Would really be nice!

5. Are we going to get the crews to talk in their native language?

I am really looking forward to the game, and kudos to Graviteam for tackling this project!yeah

ramas




Last edited by ramas; 05/29/11 12:39 AM.
#3305637 - 05/28/11 09:42 AM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Topo]  
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1_m Offline
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Originally Posted By: Topo
I hope good business for Graviteam..

Graviteam have not received money from SF.
AP:Kh43 and AP:OS did without financing and have made only thanks to enthusiasm and fact that many people in the team have a second job to feed their families.
Financings of development of SA:BoW by the publisher = financing open source project in Nicaragua.
It's a bad business, but we still continue make games (like many other game developers) biggrin


Assistant Deputy Backup Courier
#3305839 - 05/28/11 05:27 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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enigma6584 Offline
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Well I wish you gentlemen success 1_m, you guys definately have talent. You just need someone with money to back you, someone honest.

#3305881 - 05/28/11 06:24 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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Topo Offline
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Agree with enigma6584.
No money for the best WW2 tanksim of last years? it's a shame.
I hope to get better in the future...


Yes, I'm Italian
No, I never voted for Berlusconi...
#3306102 - 05/29/11 12:50 AM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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ramas Offline
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+1 to the above

I don´t know much about the gaming industry´s ways of operating, but I know that Wings of Prey for eg. is distributed through yuplay. If a distributor is not found, graviteam could rely on an online store. Would help save costs (I´d think), reach more simmers and increase the chances of making a profit. SF was very hard to get hold of. Found it on amazon.uk, sold by a 3rd party that wouldn´t ship to where I live. Quite a hassle, but it was worth it.

ramas

#3306173 - 05/29/11 03:04 AM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: ramas]  
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TacError Offline
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Originally Posted By: ramas
+1 to the above

I don´t know much about the gaming industry´s ways of operating, but I know that Wings of Prey for eg. is distributed through yuplay. If a distributor is not found, graviteam could rely on an online store. Would help save costs (I´d think), reach more simmers and increase the chances of making a profit. SF was very hard to get hold of. Found it on amazon.uk, sold by a 3rd party that wouldn´t ship to where I live. Quite a hassle, but it was worth it.

ramas


Coincidentally, the Russian version of Operation Star is sold through yuplay already.

Last edited by TacError; 05/31/11 07:08 AM.
#3306498 - 05/29/11 07:15 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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I have to say good job!

Can't tell if the complicated firing procedures are followed or if interaction between commander and gunner is modelled, there is loss of continuity in between firing and reload cycles as it appears to be pasted together from different sequences rather than one continuous sequence. Trained crew should average 4 aimed shots per minute under optimal conditions ( sitting still, turret not traversing), there is no turret basket, exacerbating the loader's job if the turret were traversing between shots. Re-acquistion of target between shots is slow.

The job of ranging is accomplished by the commander; the commander calls out the range, the gunner uses the range knob to match the horizontal ranging line on the range scale accordingly. If the commander is knocked out or disabled, the gunner uses the stadia markings in the lower right of his sights. Normal operation of the crew wouldn't give the gunner free range to plug away, procedures are similar to those followed in Steel Beasts, plus OPFOR crew procedure tends to follow hierarchy.

Commander issues ready command that commander is notifying gunner to engage a target
Commander tells gunner which ammunition type to use
Commander calls out target type, range, bearing of target (tank, 500 meters, 3 o'clock)
Gunner adjusts to commander's instructions
Commander issues fire command
Guner mirrors commander's firing command to warn the crew of gun operation.

Can't tell is any of this is happening or not, I see the switch between the commander's ranging telescope and the gunner's telescope, however. Are there any video sequences of the TKN-3 night sight?

From what I've seen here, it looks promising from the point of view the of the TSh2B-41u telescope optics so far look very good. Nice!


No one gets out of here alive.

#3306549 - 05/29/11 08:22 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: ramas]  
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Originally Posted By: ramas


Another thing for the experts: What does it sound/feel like when you´re inside a tank and get hit by multiple grenades? I am asking because in Steel Fury you´re oblivous to what´s going on until u get to the debrief and see that ur Tiger is covered with all sorts of coloured lines. I would assume that a 152mm heat round to the side of the turret would cause quite a bang.



What do you mean by grenade? You mean a penetration by an RPG type warhead? You might expeience a bright flash and a silmutaneous concussion, some crews didn't know what hit them, they just remember waking up after a sudden loss of consciousness, perhaps injured. Didn't recall at all what happened. One report I read that after a side penetration of an M1 Abrams by an RPG, a part of the RPG speed plug had grazed the back of the gunner's seat, then went on to lodge itself into one of the interior walls, and the experience was described by the gunner as being kicked in the back unexpectedly by a horse. The crew evacuated immedidately. Regardless, there are some photos here and there of what's left of crews seriously injured or killed in various wars around the world- pools of blood in the crew compartment, limbs ripped off by high spead fragments, shredded bodies, it's like tossing a small explosive in the inside the vehicle.

This clip shows a good idea of even what behind the armor effects of 40 mm penetrator does to a steel plate. You have to imagine the crew being shredded by high speed fragments.



At 1:30 you can see the interior of the target van light up. At 3:19, the video is frozen to show what the behind the armor effect looks like even when hit by inert (non-active warhead) penetrator, like a sudden flash under the armor.


No one gets out of here alive.

#3306617 - 05/29/11 09:59 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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ramas Offline
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@Kontakt5

I meant tank shells, but also including RPGs, ATGMs, etc. Basically any weapon that a tank can expect to meet on the battlefield. Your story and the video pretty nicely demonstrate the brutality of it all! I think my question wasn´t precise enough though: You´ve explained what it´s like for the crew when the armor gets penetrated. But what does the crew feel, hear and see if a projecticle (be it a 125mm AT round, a RPG, etc.) bounces off, grazes or only partially penetrates the tank?

ramas

#3306916 - 05/30/11 11:04 AM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: ramas]  
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Dima12345 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ramas

1. The sound engine:


Sound engine is improved, so most effects will be much better.

Originally Posted By: ramas
2. Infantry: Soldiers were out of proportion.


All 3D models are new.

Originally Posted By: ramas
3. Muzzle Flash: This applies to all weapons in game. The flashes were too bright and large in relation to RL, again IMO an immersion killer.


Most effects can be seen in last video.


Originally Posted By: ramas
4. Radio communcation: Can we expect some development in that area? I was hoping for orders coming in over the radio, as well as radio communcation between units. Would really be nice!

Originally Posted By: ramas
5. Are we going to get the crews to talk in their native language?


Now working at this, but not sure.

Originally Posted By: ramas
I am really looking forward to the game, and kudos to Graviteam for tackling this project!yeah


Thanks a lot! smile

#3306917 - 05/30/11 11:09 AM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Kontakt5]  
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Originally Posted By: Kontakt5
Commander issues ready command that commander is notifying gunner to engage a target
Commander tells gunner which ammunition type to use
Commander calls out target type, range, bearing of target (tank, 500 meters, 3 o'clock)
Gunner adjusts to commander's instructions
Commander issues fire command
Guner mirrors commander's firing command to warn the crew of gun operation.

Can't tell is any of this is happening or not


It will be different fire modes, but main of it looks similar to this.

Originally Posted By: Kontakt5
Are there any video sequences of the TKN-3 night sight?


No night vision available at this point - still some troubles with night screen render.

Originally Posted By: Kontakt5
Nice!


Thanks!

#3307102 - 05/30/11 04:31 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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ramas Offline
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@Dima12345

Thank you for your reply! I´ve watched now about 10 clips on youtube just to be sure: M2, Kord, Mg42, etc.. My conclusion: Some MGs emit some of the time in some videos a muzzle flash at irregular intervals. I am aware that many variables are at play here, but the flashes in SB don´t look anything like those seen in the clips: In SB we get comparatively large orbs of yellow and white light with every pull of the trigger. Please have a look at vids below:






ramas

Last edited by ramas; 05/31/11 10:02 PM.
#3310369 - 06/03/11 07:39 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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A bit of the Helmand map, as released by Graviteam last month...



The SADF Centurion in Afghantan suggests at the possibilities of the promised campaign editor.

#3310555 - 06/04/11 12:23 AM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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Great stuff. If the campaign editor's capable enough then I'd love do an RDF/CENTCOM campaign on the Iran map.

Question for Graviteam developers: What will constitute a "game over"? Destruction of your tank? Destruction of your entire platoon or when all of your forces are defeated in battle?

#3311841 - 06/06/11 12:58 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: TacError]  
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Originally Posted By: TacError

Question for Graviteam developers: What will constitute a "game over"? Destruction of your tank? Destruction of your entire platoon or when all of your forces are defeated in battle?


You lose when all controllable vehicles are destroyed or abandoned.

#3312066 - 06/06/11 06:02 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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On that video, we can see a Centurion. Will the Centurion be crewable?


-Sir in case of retreat, were we have to retreat??
-To the Graveyard!!

sandbagger.uk.com/stratos.html
#3312191 - 06/06/11 08:18 PM Re: Steel Armor:Blaze of War [Re: Di@bl0]  
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Only the T-62 and M60.

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