I'm having a little trouble with defensive BFM against J-6s in Instant Action. Defensive BFM relies on getting your opponent to make a human error...well, the bandits in Falcon 4 aren't human, and are apparently incapable of erring. Not only that, they seem to defy the laws of physics. I've tried turning at cornerspeed, looping, split-s'ing, even been on the edge of stalling, and they simply will not overshoot. Not only that, apparently their thrust-to-weight ratio seems to equal the Falcon's in a vertical climb....

I don't know what the J6 is - is it the chinese version of the mig 29? Anyway it doesn't matter much, as you need to work out the differences between the planes and work on those. You should be able to get the AC to overshoot but it's hard on ace level.

The J-6 is a MiG-19 copy - pretty nimble but really no challenge in this sim.

Use dogfight mode and set up a 1 to 1 guns only with another jet - start with an F-4 or something similar - dont start with the Ace MiG-29 because you will throw the PC out of the window. Dogfighting is generally a set of random and dynamic moves based on what the opponent is doing - not really helpful I guess just comes with practise.

in that case once you're in a turning fight, start climbing and see if he keeps up (ease of the g's)

I've tried climbing, as the F16 has a 1.-something thrust/weight ratio, with the J6 only having 0.8. They still keep up with me. I've damn near stalled my aircraft and they still keep up with me.

There´s no magic move that makes xyo go from defensive to offensive quickly.

Be patient and let the performance advanatge win the fight for you slowly. No need for an overshoot by the enemy to get the offensive slowly on an inferior plane.

You have a say 5°/second turn advantage so it will take some time to get on his 6.

I tried doing guns only furball against Mig21s and 17s. The damn things can outmaneuver me at 150kts.

Easy do not fly at 150 knts.

The AF Mig-21 can turn with the A-10. MisModeled_0

Well, if I can't get them to overshoot, and I can't slowly get behind them through turning and maneuvering, how the hell am I supposed to get them off me?

Have you tried asking politely?


Just remember to say thanks before they slam into the terrain.

Your best turn rate is not at 150k!

Keep the speed in the 340-400 kts range. The Top Gun, 'I'm going to slow down and he'll fly right by' doesn't work.

Here we go step by step 9nstructions what to do when you have a plane with inferiour turn rate at your 6.

1. Max performace turn to create angles off immediately. Pop some flares just in case. During that max instantaineous turn performace bleed your speed dwon to about 350 knts.

2. Stay in that turn. keep your lift vector on the bandit and just wait until you eventually end up in a offensive position. Sustained turn maintaining corner speed. This will take some time. If you have a say 5° sec turn rate advatage you´ll have to wait 1 min to gain 300°s on the bandit. You did gain some in your max turn at step 1. yand yoú´ll gain soem again in step 3. Still takes some time and you can not beat the enemy faster then your relative performances allow.

3. You are in a somewhat offensive possition. You did get a radar lock on the bandit and most likely you´ll see that he has lost a good bit of speed and is doing something in the neighbourhood of 200 knts.
Change your energy advantage in additional angles and doa max performace turn for a kill again. Depending on the geometry you can just haul on the stick or maybe a high jo jo is in order.

Take care that your aspect angle does not increase to much. Take care that you do not overshoot.

Okay, I understand corner speed an all that jazz. Here's the problem:



In order to keep my lift vector on the bandit, I have to be behind the bandit. This is not the case. The bandit is behind me.



Tried that. The bandit stays inside my turn and no one gets anywhere--we just fly around in circles all day.

Now, when I'm behind the bandit, I'm closing in for a gun kill (guns only furball), the #%&*$# noses up, stops on a dime, and I shoot past, even if I'm only going 250-300kts and pop my airbrakes. The AI jets are freaking UFOs.

I also tried a trick I read about a pilot doing back in the Korean War: pulling a hard turn with the bandit inside the turn, then unloading momentarily, causing the bandit to overshoot. Didn't work.

teaching dogfighting skills with just written descriptions is rather difficult.

Anyway going to try a bit longer.

Lift line/ lift vectos is a good concept. Think of a circle, perpendicular to wings going from the nose of your jet to the tail.

Defensive situation plane on your 6. Roll 90° left/right and put on the Gs. You´ll create a small amout of angles and the bandit following you will be at your high 6 o clock (above your rudder). keep the lift line on the bandit and keep turning.

Say you have a sustained turn rate of 20°/sec. The banditt in is lowly Mig19 can sustain 15°/sec. In the time it takes you to turn 180° (9 seconds) the bandit will manage to do 135°. It will take you about 60 secoonds to gain 300° which you need to go from defensive to offensive.
in those 60 seconds you will have done 1200° of turning so 3.3 complete turns.

Once you are in that advanatgeous position you have not won yet. take care of your overtake. Use lag pursuit, use the vertical to keep overtake under control

when you overshoot the bandit its not because he was doing an unrealistic turn. it was because you were much faster then him all the time and you notice to late so you can not decelerate fast enough.

It will also help a great deal to make ACMIS of your fights to analyse what is really going on.

Good luck in your future pratise.

If you really want to get into it check out that book
http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat-Man...9575&sr=8-1

Ah, that makes sense now. I was mistaking the lift vector for the velocity vector in the HUD.

Good job hansundfranz!

Look for the book "In Pursuit" by Johan Kylander. Its the basic's of air to air combat for the sim pilot

Thanks Toonis!
Here it is online: In Pursuit