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#3290431 - 05/09/11 01:31 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Feb 2011
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apelles Offline
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apelles  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 174
Hungary, Székesfehérvár
Shilka.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3290515 - 05/09/11 03:36 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: apelles]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Voting is ongoing till the end of this week...
... between the ZSU-23-V1 Shilka or the SA-75MK Dvina.
thumbsup

Vote, if you want to learn its operation "Realistic to the switch..."



Last edited by Hpasp; 05/09/11 04:20 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3290544 - 05/09/11 04:25 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Your Shilka panel...
... "Realistic to the Switch"

thumbsup



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3290547 - 05/09/11 04:29 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
Senior Member
Hpasp  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Your Dvina panel...
... "Realistic to the Switch"

thumbsup



Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3290609 - 05/09/11 05:39 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 13
DDG167 Offline
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DDG167  Offline
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Posts: 13
PRC
Awesome!
S-75 Chinese document ready. how should I send it to you?:)

#3290662 - 05/09/11 06:30 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 187
Muggs Online smile
Member
Muggs  Online Smile
Member

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 187
UK
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Voting is ongoing till the end of this week...
... between the ZSU-23-V1 Shilka or the SA-75MK Dvina.


Dvina, please! thumbsup

#3290681 - 05/09/11 06:48 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: DDG167]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
S-75 Chinese document ready. how should I send it to you?:)

Please send it to the email, at the bottom of this website...

http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3290944 - 05/10/11 12:53 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Cat Offline
Egyptian Mau
Cat  Offline
Egyptian Mau
Hotshot

Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,152
Somewhere....over the Rainbow
I have to vote for the SA-2F. I default to the Volhov the few times I've managed to play. I'm used to LORO mode radar and I miss it when I'm using the S-125.

Miao, Cat


Miao, Cat
#3291215 - 05/10/11 12:00 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Cat]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 55
JWNoctis Offline
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JWNoctis  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 55
Originally Posted By: Hpasp

Vote, if you want to learn its operation "Realistic to the switch..."

As realistic as possible!...And how much reflex would it take to operate the Shilka? Given its nature as a SPAAG...

Originally Posted By: Cat
I have to vote for the SA-2F. I default to the Volhov the few times I've managed to play. I'm used to LORO mode radar and I miss it when I'm using the S-125.

Miao, Cat

As far as I can tell, LORO mode is currently only useful maximizing detection range, decluttering the scope, and possibly improving guidance accuracy in the sim. It should help against off-angle standoff jamming, which is probably yet to be implemented, and SA-2F doesn't have the antenna for that...Well, perhaps.

Too bad we can't substitute S-200 for S-75 in those scenarios. biggrin

#3291393 - 05/10/11 03:37 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 13
DDG167 Offline
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DDG167  Offline
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PRC
OK.Email sent.

#3291436 - 05/10/11 04:31 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: DDG167]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Thanks You!

Now the documentation is available in 6 languages...
... if you want to translate it to your language, I can send you the original Word docs.
thumbsup


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3291439 - 05/10/11 04:36 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Cat]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
I have to vote for the SA-2F. I default to the Volhov the few times I've managed to play. I'm used to LORO mode radar and I miss it when I'm using the S-125.

According to former Hungarian Fire Control Officers, the SA-75M Dvina (SA-2F) was the easiest system to use.
Compared to it, the S-75M3 Volkhov (SA-2E) is an ergonomic nightmare.


Last edited by Hpasp; 05/10/11 04:37 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3291638 - 05/10/11 08:43 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 210
NaiseFail Offline
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NaiseFail  Offline
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Posts: 210
Virginia
Originally Posted By: Hpasp
Instead of announcement, here are my thoughts and questions...

I'm toying with the idea of adding the S-300PS/PMU (SA-10B) to the SAM simulator, but...

1, Hungary only planned to field this system, it never realized it.
The Cold War ended before the procurement, witch means that in Hungary nobody ever operated/fired this system, and nobody could test the simulator, or help in its development.

2, There are surprisingly big amount of detailed information on the WEB about it...
- VKO article about live firing with missile track drawings: http://www.vko.ru/DesktopModules/Article...version=Staging
- Youtube videos about its operation
... but they are not technical enough.


So I could do an SA-10B sim, but it would not as deep and realistic as usual, and certainly would not be "Realistic to the Switch".

Currently Russia is removing these systems from live service, replacing those with the second/third generation (S-300PM SA-20A, S-400 SA-21).

So it might be better to wait few years, until more technical info will surface about its operation (meantime do "Realistic to the Switch" Shilka and Dvina), or should I do a not so realistic sim?

What is Your opinion?




First off, I would love to see the SA-10 in SAM Sim, it's been my favorite system for many years. However, I doubt you'd be able to create a realistic enough representation of the system to meet your standards. Sadly I agree with others; wait until you can get enough detailed information to make this system as realistic as the others.

As for the Shilka vs Dvina, I vote for the Shilka. The Dvina would be great to have as it's the realistic system for many of our current scenarios. However, the Shilka is a more attractive system to me simply because it's something new. I'd rather have a brand new toy that I know nothing about than a downgraded toy I've been playing with for a long time.

Finally, awesome work on the interface! I've always loved how photo-realistic they look.

#3291951 - 05/11/11 05:50 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: NaiseFail]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
First off, I would love to see the SA-10 in SAM Sim, it's been my favorite system for many years.

So am I!
Just imagine...
- You have 48 ready to launch missiles, no waiting for reload.
- No poisonous fluids are required before launch.
- You can attack 6 targets simultaneously, with 12 missiles.
- Mach7 missile, with 75km range and 20g+ overload capability.
- No hundreds of switches, just a logical array of buttons and screens.
- No ground clutter.
- Only one wheel for Azimuth, no need to track target in Elevation/Azimuth.
- 105degrees of view in Azimuth, 90degrees in elevation.
- Narrow phase modulated pencil beams, only your targets can detect it. (no worrying for weasels)
- Firing after 5 minutes of stop, than scouting away within 5 minutes. (no worrying for enemy counterattack)

Finally, awesome work on the interface! I've always loved how photo-realistic they look.

Thanks, they are photos of real systems.
thumbsup




Last edited by Hpasp; 05/11/11 11:39 AM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3291955 - 05/11/11 05:57 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
Life will be more interesting with realistic ground clutter...
thumbsup
Volhov 95% ready, only testing and fine tuning is done currently.
Neva 70% ready.
KRUG 0%.
VEGA as a Doppler radar has no effect for ground.

Screen without and with SDC*.


*SDC is the impulse-doppler mode of the Volhov, called MTI (Moving Target Indicator) in the west.


Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3292058 - 05/11/11 11:35 AM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 55
JWNoctis Offline
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JWNoctis  Offline
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Posts: 55
Awesome!:D

And will terrain shadowing be modeled along with this? Seems so but still...?

#3292143 - 05/11/11 01:31 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: JWNoctis]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hpasp Offline
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Hpasp  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,665
Hungary, Europe
And will terrain shadowing be modeled along with this? Seems so but still...?

Yeah!

During 1959, the locations of the SA-75/SA-75M Dvina (SA-2A/B) units in Hungary were selected against medium-high altitude targets.

Twenty years later, during the planned re-organization / re-equipping to S-75M/S-125M/S-200VE/S-300PMU (SA-2E/SA-3B/SA-5B/SA-10B) the locations were re-selected to be able to fight against low altitude targets...
... just the money went out (at the end of the Cold War), and some units were stayed in legacy positions (bottom of valleys), so they had short visibility range for low targets.

grunt

Last edited by Hpasp; 05/11/11 01:32 PM.

Hpasp
Free SAM Simulator, "Realistic to the Switch"

(U-2 over Sverdlovsk, B-52's over Hanoi, F-4 Phantoms over the Sinai, F-16's and the F-117A Stealth bomber over the Balkans.)
http://sites.google.com/site/samsimulator1972/home

Book from the author - Soviet Nuclear Weapons in Hungary 1961-1991
https://sites.google.com/view/nuclear-weapons-in-hungary/

thumbsup
#3292264 - 05/11/11 04:03 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 54
arkhangelsk Offline
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arkhangelsk  Offline
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Posts: 54
Let me put in quick vote for Shilka, and to take your time with the S-300.

#3292331 - 05/11/11 05:08 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 19
Vulture Offline
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Vulture  Offline
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Posts: 19
I vote for Shilka. Something different and more to learn!

And while the SA-10B sounds really tempting I'm for the "Realistic to the switch" approach.

#3292367 - 05/11/11 05:38 PM Re: SAM Simulator [Re: Hpasp]  
Joined: Apr 2011
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DDG167 Offline
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DDG167  Offline
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PRC
- You have 48 ready to launch missiles, no waiting for reload

Ehhh...not 4 TEL with 4 missiles each, altogether 16 ready to launch?

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