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#3232907 - 03/13/11 01:45 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Sokol1]  
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aRareKindOfMonster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1

Unfortunately the only place where I find theses items is in mouser.com
but the shipping for my address is U$ 40!!! Local Farnell dont have. frown

Sokol1


How many would you need?

If you come up with a design and publish it - is this option better than Willynovi's implementation? if yes, I am interested - I will buy some and ship it to you.

Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3233031 - 03/13/11 05:38 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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aRareKindOfMonster

Thank you for your offer, but I need understand how assembly this "MaRS" thing first. smile

Quote:
is this option better than Willynovi's implementation?


What Willynovis's implementation you refer?
I know only your USB controller, "Controladora Joy.01"

Sokol1

#3233475 - 03/13/11 09:01 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Sokol1]  
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aRareKindOfMonster Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sokol1
What Willynovis's implementation you refer?
I know only your USB controller, "Controladora Joy.01"

Sokol1


The PIC18F2550 based USB controller.

Let me know when you got the MaRS gizmo figured out and I'll send you a couple.

#3234367 - 03/14/11 10:43 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Originally Posted By: Gene Buckle
FYI, the A1321LUA-T is still available from Newark Electronics and some other vendors. The link is:
http://www.newark.com/allegro-microsyste...?CMP=AFC-HEARST

They're $1.62 each in single quantities and they've got 2800 in stock.

julian265, would it be worth it to order these as replacements for the A1302's that I'm using now?

tnx.

g.


Thanks for the link!

If you want to make a sensor that can be adapted to different axes and their angle ranges, I think so. You can use weaker, smaller, wider spaced, single magnets, or an offset sensor to get the best sensitivity for each axis.

But if you don't notice any non-linearity, and you have enough resolution over the range of angles you need to measure, then no. Also if you find stronger magnets, or are able to increase your current magnetic flux in any other way, then you could increase the senstivity without replacing the sensor.

Last edited by julian265; 03/14/11 10:43 PM.
#3234518 - 03/15/11 01:40 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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f15sim Offline
More projects than sense!
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Graham, WA
I think I'll stick with the A1302 then. If I need to expand the mechanical input range, I can cut a set of wood or acrylic gears pretty easily.

I made a new pair of sensor "bodies" this weekend out of UHMW instead of 1/2" plywood. They turned out pretty nice.

g.


Proud owner of 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - the Me-109F/X Project
#3234555 - 03/15/11 02:27 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Originally Posted By: Gene Buckle
I made a new pair of sensor "bodies" this weekend out of UHMW instead of 1/2" plywood. They turned out pretty nice.


You got us into the habit; where are the pictures?? biggrin

#3237676 - 03/18/11 03:02 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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f15sim Offline
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Sitting on the SD card. smile

I'll get some posted soon - working on other things at the moment.

g.


Proud owner of 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://geneb.simpits.org - the Me-109F/X Project
#3284182 - 05/01/11 04:03 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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tirta Offline
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Hi Guys,

how good is hall sensor compared to the usual ch pots (HP100)?
is it noticeably more accurate or about the same?

If it is truly better, I am thinking of replacing my old CH pots with hall sensor.
Which one is the most suitable: A1301, A1302 or A1321 ?

Please advise.
Thanks.

#3285223 - 05/02/11 04:35 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Brandano Offline
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Caput Mundi (well, it used to ...
On the plus side: no pot noise, no wear. None at all. On the minus side, it's a bit fiddly to deal with, you can forget about your warranty, and the useful range is normally a bit reduced (unless you are lucky with magnet strength or play a bit with reduction ratios, which however introduce backlash). In my experience Hall sensors for all major axes are worth the trouble.

#3286645 - 05/04/11 03:49 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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aRareKindOfMonster Offline
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I wonder; what is the CH Products controllers' resolution? Some controllers can only recognize up to 256 steps. And while that should be enough - or is it? - a higher resolution, if supported, is a winner, especially with HALL sensors.

#3286752 - 05/04/11 09:08 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: aRareKindOfMonster]  
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Bluedeath Offline
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Given the quality of CH Products i would be surprised if a raw resolution of analog axes lower than 1024 steps while 4096 or more could be the most probable answer. 256 values is the resolution of the good old PC game port.


"When you plan revenge best dig two graves" Confucius
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
#3286916 - 05/04/11 03:06 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Accord JoyTester is CH controller is 256 steps (8 bits).

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45161&d=1124883145

Sokol1

#3287207 - 05/04/11 10:36 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Sokol1]  
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julian265 Offline
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Last time I checked it was 256 also.

#3287264 - 05/05/11 01:14 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: Sokol1]  
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aRareKindOfMonster Offline
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Sokol,

How would that graph look like if you had used a high resolution IC (HALL sensor)?

I notice there is some jitter on the rudder and throttle axis, would a HALL sensor - due to its sensitivity - show more of it, or less?

#3287498 - 05/05/11 11:09 AM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Bluedeath Offline
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@ Sokol and Julian, i cannot believe that!!! 8Bit! my respect for CH engineers is fading away.


"When you plan revenge best dig two graves" Confucius
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
#3287583 - 05/05/11 01:53 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Sokol1 Offline
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Bluedeath.

You shold consider that actual CH sticks are "old" projects - probably the change to USB occurred around 2000, when 8 bits are almost stantart.

I think that secret of CH good performance in games is due drivers.

Look: Apparently Bob Church work for CH in this area.
Back in 1990's Thrustmaster F22PRO are problematic with pots - but pots used in F22PRO are virtually identical to ones used in CH... (I have both here)
then Bob Church made a new firmware - sold as upgrate- for F22PRO that cure these problemns. wink

aRareKindOfMonster

To compare see this test (JoyTester) with Warthog:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/549/joytes01custom.jpg
http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/7011/joytes03custom.jpg
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5669/joytes04custom.jpg
http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/286/joytes05custom.jpg

Here result of the same CH with some modification in coils (?):

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=45162&d=1124883145
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=35320

Here, a CH upgrated with (VKB) MaRS (a "tuned" sensor):

http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=97239&d=1249737843
http://www.sukhoi.ru/forum/showthread.php?t=57218

Sokol1

Last edited by Sokol1; 05/05/11 02:29 PM.
#3287696 - 05/05/11 03:47 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Bluedeath Offline
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Of course i was exaggerating about ch engineers, the pots are similar but not identical. Pots in my TM flcs failed, by fail i don't mean only spiking I mean that after very little time the rivets that held the soldering contact in place were so loose that was impossible to fix them. The spiking instead was horrible right out of the box so had to lubricate and clean them the very day i bought the F-16 FLCS , calibrating the thing was a nightmare (but i loved it anyway).
I workaround the problem of not finding the correct ones by using modified cheap stock 500k pots with no spiking or problem at all (I contacted Bob who was very helpful a lot of time back then), my TM wheel pedal pots suffered the same issue.

CH pots after intensive use (even transplanted now to a my FLCS) never gave me any problem at all just the joystick was too light.

I love TM stuff but i always thought that CH put more care in their products (They just don't give me the right feel when i use them), But 8 bit of resolution is really too low (i didn't consider the "old venerable" design, but even low end products of Saitek line have better resolution) i took for granted that the design was keep up with the time standard, on the software I really can't comment because I owned game port version of both the controllers and I tended to use fox2 at the time and in the end i gave the CH stuff to a friend.


"When you plan revenge best dig two graves" Confucius
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
#3287701 - 05/05/11 03:53 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Brandano Offline
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But do you think you would be able to position a joystick reliabley in 256 discrete positions by hand? My Cougar has a sensor range of 2048 on the X, Y, Z and Z1 axes, but it's sincerely overkill, even to the point of causing trouble when trying to set a calibration manually on Linux, though the automatic calibration works perfectly.

#3287752 - 05/05/11 04:40 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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Bluedeath Offline
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Actually is possible and relatively easy to hit a discrete position over a 1024 range with a joystick (the longer is the neck of the stick the more precise you can be) or a throttle (and be steady enough to maintain the value within the jitter rejection range of your controller) Try with Diview you will see that you can be precise to the first decimal of the percentage (even the second if you are good gunslinger wink without too much effort if you are not at the center of the stick (where springs do have the most of the resistance) if mechanical parts are in good shape, if this kind of precision is needed that's another story but 256 discrete position can be achieved even by untrained hand for example in MAME you can "feel" the difference between an 8 bit (which theoretically is the native resolution of most of the arcade analog controllers) and a 10 bit (or more) controller by the smoothness of the response because of the aliasing elimination.

Like Audio is better to work with the highest possible sampling rate even when the final products will have CD quality.

Any how i agree that extreme resolution are most of the time overkill, but they come very handy when is needed to use only a fraction of available range.

BTW XBOX 360 pads do have 16 bit (at least my windows PC sees them as such when i check raw values) of resolution on the analog "Mushrooms" that is definitely overkill



Last edited by Bluedeath; 05/05/11 04:52 PM.

"When you plan revenge best dig two graves" Confucius
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin
#3288327 - 05/06/11 12:07 PM Re: DIY hall sensor ... [Re: f15sim]  
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tirta Offline
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@Brandano,
thanks for the reply.
hall sensor sounds very intriguing, I think I am going to try it.

@aRareKindOfMonster,
actually, I have changed my gameport CH with mjoy16.
so with mjoy16 (10 bits), hall sensor should be more accurate?

@Sokol & Julian
I didn't know that CH use 8 bits.
How about if I buy a new CH Fighterstick now?
Does it still use 8 bits?

I plan to change x and y axis of my CH flightstick.
With the magnets from cd/dvd drive, do I have to worry about shielding the magnets?
if yes, how to shield the magnets from each other?

Last edited by tirta; 05/06/11 12:11 PM.
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