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#3259892 - 04/04/11 10:54 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Hey Werner,

after your post I tookthe JU 88 out of the hangar and went on a little testflight. The levers from left to right are: prop pitch, throttle, supercharger, radiator and oil cooler. I had to map the fuel cocks to the keybord (Normaly I use the clickable pits for such levers that you dont need to often) since they are hard to reach in the 88. Have them one strg+1,+2 etc, works fine for me. Also no problems with the prop pitch. Full forward=max rpm, full backward=feather. RPM is increasing/decreasing on the gauge as it should (Nice that the 88 has some markings on the rpm gauge, so you dont have to remember the limits. Green is max continuous, yellow should be limited to 5 minutes and red is never exceed). The supercharger has little to no effect when at low altidude, but you should notice map increasing when flying at high altitudes.
Actually I start to like the cockpit of the 88, it even has a working stopwatch. I wonder if that Lorenz radio navigation gauge is working, but at least it has a tooltip labeled to it, so I believe it should be usable!

Last edited by wannabe; 04/04/11 10:55 PM.
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#3259923 - 04/04/11 11:26 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Did some altitude testing on the JU 88 now. The supercharger works fine! Try a climb and keep rmp and map on max continuous (green marking). As your altitude increases youll find that your map needle is slowly falling. That is due to decreasing ambient pressure at altitude. So adjust your throttle to keep map at the green line. At around 3 Km of altitude (depending on actual air pressure and temperature) youll notice that the map needle will drop below the green line although your throttle is fully opened. Now engage the supercharger and youll see the dramatic effect. the sc is increasing the pressure of the air needed for the engine and thus will allow you to hit the red mark of your map gauge at altitudes of 3000+.

#3260185 - 04/05/11 08:04 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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WernerVoss Offline
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Great stuff Wannabe, thankyou. smile smile


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#3260203 - 04/05/11 08:54 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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sascha Offline
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Quick question re the Spit I:


Seems to me that on 100% throttle-setting I'm running with increased/WEP-boost (at least the boost-gauge's needle is well above the "redline"-zone). I also noticed that if I keep my throttle open at 100% the engine will suffer for it (after a while, max RPM dropped to around 2000). Am I correct or imagening things? I seem to remember the RL Spits had the option of pushing the throttle beyond 100% for short bursts of power.

If so: Is there any way to set my throttle up for the Spit to avoid overboosting? After all: That's what the WEP-key should be for IMO.

What's even weirder is that I noticed this behaviour *without* CEM. Just flying around with my throttle open I seem to be able to ruin the engine ... not very "un-CEM"-like that.. smile

S.


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#3260205 - 04/05/11 08:58 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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WernerVoss Offline
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I think you'd need a throttle with an upper-limit detente for a button-push boost to work. My Saitek quadrants have a lower-limit detente and I was hoping to map prop-feathering to that, but unfortunately 1C haven't provided motor-specific options for it, there's just the one global option.


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#3260250 - 04/05/11 10:38 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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sascha Offline
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^ So is my assumption correct that 100% joystick-throttle equals 100 + X% /WEP in-game? Is the redline/redzone on the boost-gauge a reliable source of info (read: will keeping the needle within the redzome give me maximum "safe"-performance?



S.


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#3260306 - 04/05/11 11:59 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Hope this will help you:




Please note that there are 2 different values for each boost limit, one for 100 octane fuel and one for 87 octane fuel. Looking at the inganme Spit limitations Im quite sure that weve got only 87 octane fuel, so use the numbers in brackets.
The numbers for the hurricane should be quite similar to the one for the spit, cant find a manual for it, but flying works fine for me using the Spits limits (Afteral its also a merlin engine).

#3260314 - 04/05/11 12:07 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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sascha Offline
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Hmm.. Spit Ia is nowhere near those RPM values for me with stick throttle on 100%. Needle bounces up and down pretty badly, but it's always in the region of 2200 rpm. Only in the Spit II did I get RPM-readings of around 3000.


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#3260343 - 04/05/11 12:39 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Its from the Spit II handbook, cant comment on the Ia, have not flown it now. If anybody here knows where to find the manual for the Spit Ia and the hurricane I would be very interested in that too!

#3260356 - 04/05/11 01:00 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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sascha Offline
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D'oh! The "Merlin XII" should've been a dead giveaway.. smile


From wiki's RR-Merlin-page:

Quote:

Merlin II (RM 1S)

1,030 hp (775 kW) at 3,000 rpm at 5,500 ft (1,680 m) using + 6 psi boost (41 kPa gauge; or an absolute pressure of 144 kPa or 1.41 atm); used 100% glycol coolant. First production Merlin II delivered 10 August 1937.[18] Merlin II used in the Boulton Paul Defiant, Hawker Hurricane Mk.I, Supermarine Spitfire Mk.I fighters, and Fairey Battle light bomber.[74]




Merlin III (RM 1S)

Merlin III fitted with "universal" propeller shaft able to mount either de Havilland or Rotol propellers,.[75] From late 1939, using 100 octane fuel and +12 psi boost (83 kPa gauge; or an absolute pressure of 184 kPa or 1.82 atm), the Merlin III developed 1,310 hp (977 kW) at 3,000 rpm at 9,000 ft (2,700 m);[46] using 87 octane fuel the power ratings were the same as the Merlin II. Used in the Defiant, Hurricane Mk.I, Spitfire Mk.I fighters, and Battle light bomber.[74] First production Merlin III delivered 1 July 1938.[18]




S.


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#3260756 - 04/05/11 06:25 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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WernerVoss Offline
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I'm not seeing the props move when I operate the pitch levers. confused


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#3260817 - 04/05/11 07:09 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Very strange... Do you see the small prop-lever icon move?

#3260887 - 04/05/11 08:31 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: wannabe]  
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WernerVoss Offline
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Originally Posted By: wannabe
Very strange... Do you see the small prop-lever icon move?


Yes, that goes up and down ok, and after operating them in flight I have to crash-land because something goes wrong in the engines. But on the ground with engines off, or on the ground/in the air with them on I don't see the props twisting to indicate their pitch is changing.


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#3260967 - 04/05/11 10:11 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Ah, now I get it. You shouldnt see the prop pitch changing while your engines are off. The prop pitch is adjusted with some kind of hydraulics system which is operated with engine oil. So when your engine is off theres no oil pressure and thus no change in pitch. Thats also the reason why you should feather a dying engine in time, since when it has stopped already you wont be able anymore to feather it.
When your engines are on and the props are turning you might just not be able to spot the change in pitch. Watch your rpm gauge and listen to your engine sound while playing around with the lever, thats the best indication (You should do that 3-4 times anyway before take off, to ensure the system is working and get fresh, warm oil into the system).

Last edited by wannabe; 04/05/11 10:18 PM.
#3260969 - 04/05/11 10:18 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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Ah, now I get it... when your engine is off theres no oil pressure

Ok now we're officially through Phase One and it gets more interesting Smile2

Thanks

Ming


'You are either a hater or you are not' Roman Halter
#3260971 - 04/05/11 10:20 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Ming_EAF19]  
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wannabe Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ming_EAF19
Ah, now I get it... when your engine is off theres no oil pressure

Ok now we're officially through Phase One and it gets more interesting Smile2

Thanks

Ming


What do you mean with we are officially through Phase one? confused

#3261135 - 04/06/11 01:11 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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Getting back to the Gyroscopic instruments talked about earlier in the thread.
With respect the standard AH MKI the parameters listed in AP1257 are:

+-90 degrees pitch, +-60 degrees in roll

For the AH MKII

+-45 degrees in pitch, +- 360 degrees in roll

For the DG
+-60degrees in both pitch and roll.

There is also a note that after a complete gyro topple the erection cycle is 10mins.
There was no capability to cage the Horizon.

In addition further info in the AP2095 Pilots Notes General.
Refers to acceleration errors and turning induced errors that the old and bold amongst will relate to,
Remember that extra Bar width you had to allow on on Instrument take off till it all settled down smile

From the AP2095




In general I think AH and DG gyro precession is a little over modelled. Nice to see it there but it needs toning down just a little imo.

Turning and acceleration errors on the Magnetic compass is also modelled and also a little savage imo. Sadly Magnetic variation is not modelled.

Last edited by IvanK; 04/06/11 07:40 AM.
#3261488 - 04/06/11 10:52 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Thanks for the detailed information regarding the gyros! thumbsup

I agree that the gyro drift seems a little overmodeled, but its nice to have it in the sim at least!

Last edited by wannabe; 04/06/11 10:54 AM.
#3261526 - 04/06/11 11:42 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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How would you know if Magnetic variation was modelled or not? Have you taken bearings off an accurate grid Chart, flown them and decided that MAG Var was like 2 Degrees or something? In 1940 Var might have been 0 for the South East Coast - anyway for the sake of 2 or 3 degrees it makes no odds, as there is not a human exists that can fly that accurately. Besides who needs Mag Var in a sim, unless you are using map, compass and stopwatch to navigate by?

Last edited by darkmouse; 04/06/11 11:47 AM.
#3261567 - 04/06/11 12:29 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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Believe it or not I've done exactly that in IL2.. Low visibility, following compass heading having worked out how long it took me at cruising speed in the Hurri to cover a grid square, and it was suprisingly accurate.. yep

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