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#3257507 - 04/02/11 11:48 PM Seriously bugged CEM  
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Biggles07 Offline
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Right, not to be too negative....I think its addition is one of the 'highlights' *cough* of the release. However, the key inputs, axes or indeed anything I use respond extremely erratically, if at all. This can be seen in the P/T/M/R bar 'spiking', they do not respond to the actual inputs correctly at times....at all.

Its strange and I was wondering if anyone else has encountered this. No matter what key combinations, buttons or axes I use it is the same. I can confirm that the setup I am using is in perfect working order and calibrated. For the throttle, I had to 'fix' it by changing the '100%' menu input value initially also, it was registering full input on 25% throttle movement. Additionally, it does not always inform you when there are 'conflicts' either, though most of the time it does. The setup is truly awful and bug ridden.

BTW, this applies to 'inflight' adjustments too, as well as start up procedures which I now know how to do. The problem lies not with me, and nor is it the 'anthropomorphic' feature either, it happens with it turned off and no other inputs too. Its like inputs are 'lagging' if they even work at all sometimes. Atrocious.

I have also made some screenies of faulty Hurricane artificial horizon too, as well as other anomalies. Is it possible to post a track here, and can someone tell me how to do it? I have a funny one of a Hurricane merrily taxiing round the circuit into Tangmere airbase heavily damaged and without a working engine. Another crazy 'Hurri-happening' was a landing I made in a field, but I kept the throttle on 'for the lulz' to see what would happen. The plane just continued bouncing around the landscape as if on a pogo stick and refused to crash (yep full real for sure). Crazy. Though I've had some fun and some aspects are jaw droppingly good, the negatives are far outweighing the positives atm. Has any one else noticed that the G50 instruments do not even work properly?

I'm an optimist and will bear with it, but you really cannot blame people for being extremely disappointed (thus far). I know I am.


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#3257518 - 04/03/11 12:04 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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ManfromX Offline
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I do have some issues with axis assignment as well. It seems the game is too sensitive at times and will try to change the position of the throttle/trim/mixture/pitch even for just "1" difference.

Even good joysticks will shift a little, I think this is the cause of issues with anthropomorphic realism option as the game thinks I'm trying to do 30 things at once when an axis shifts between 54 and 55 for a split second. I had to turn the option off for now while I try to find a temp solution.

Seems like you've tried that though.

I just wonder if it's related somehow in how the game reads these inputs.

**Edit

I just want to make sure this is set up correctly on your end.



Just make sure your 100% position is set for like 80 - 90% of your control input
Add deadzone to the 0, 100% or Max throttle settings if you want there to be some travel before it actually pushes through.

Last edited by ManfromX; 04/03/11 12:25 AM.
#3257548 - 04/03/11 12:40 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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I've had this issue as well and found I had to set things similar to ManfromX, but I have my throttle set to 100% and saved it. Though each time I start the game I have to load that saved file or things are all screwed up. Thankfully I'm busy with another game at the moment otherwise I'd probably be more upset with this than I am. smile Definitely not ready for prime time in this condition.


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#3257564 - 04/03/11 01:02 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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+1 to all the above. Controls fubar.

#3257566 - 04/03/11 01:03 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: ManfromX]  
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Originally Posted By: ManfromX
....................Even good joysticks will shift a little, I think this is the cause of issues with anthropomorphic realism option as the game thinks I'm trying to do 30 things at once when an axis shifts between 54 and 55 for a split second. I had to turn the option off for now while I try to find a temp solution.

..................


exactly the same here. i ruined my first day with the game totaly till i recognized it was this 'tow hand' option....


JG53*Frankyboy
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#3257615 - 04/03/11 02:24 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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Works fine for me! I only have a cheap Saitek AV8R Joystick and use it for sick and throttle. Additionally I use a Saitek throttle qudrant for engine management, I have mapped the radiator, prop pitch and mixture. No spikes, only smooth input. Be aware that some planes do not have a fully adjustable Prop or mixture! For example the early Spit has only a "fine" and a "coarse" setting for prop pitch, so your axis will jump from full to zero. Same goes for the mixture in some planes which had an early automatisation, so there is only "auto-rich" or "auto-lean". Your problem with the artificial horizont seems to me like a nice little feature, In real life instrument flying you have to watch not to pull too hard maneuvers or your gyros may hit their limits and thus your horizont will not show you any good anymore. I could imagine that those early instrument were quite sensitive to this. I actually noticed this today when doing some night flying in the spit. The horizont worked as it should on my way out but after a little dogfighting I had to find my way home without it.

#3257670 - 04/03/11 04:02 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: wannabe]  
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Biggles07 Offline
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Originally Posted By: wannabe
Works fine for me! I only have a cheap Saitek AV8R Joystick and use it for sick and throttle. Additionally I use a Saitek throttle qudrant for engine management, I have mapped the radiator, prop pitch and mixture. No spikes, only smooth input. Be aware that some planes do not have a fully adjustable Prop or mixture! For example the early Spit has only a "fine" and a "coarse" setting for prop pitch, so your axis will jump from full to zero. Same goes for the mixture in some planes which had an early automatisation, so there is only "auto-rich" or "auto-lean". Your problem with the artificial horizont seems to me like a nice little feature, In real life instrument flying you have to watch not to pull too hard maneuvers or your gyros may hit their limits and thus your horizont will not show you any good anymore. I could imagine that those early instrument were quite sensitive to this. I actually noticed this today when doing some night flying in the spit. The horizont worked as it should on my way out but after a little dogfighting I had to find my way home without it.


In real life instrument flying you have to watch not to pull too hard maneuvers or your gyros may hit their limits and thus your horizont will not show you any good anymore. I could imagine that those early instrument were quite sensitive to this. I actually noticed this today when doing some night flying in the spit.


Ah! A great spot RE the AH wannabe, and that did not occur to me. The thing that made me think it may be a bug was that it happened in free flight with no combat damage, but I must say, it did occur after some flying about and not 'straight of the bat'. This makes me think you may be right, and its a feature; if so excellent. Would be good to hear official word on this. thumbsup I was doing barrel rolls, hammerheads and all sorts actually as I recall, so this would definitely make sense. RE the early spit, yes I was aware of that mate, and ditto on not all planes having the full gamut of adjustability, but the responses on those that I know do, are most definitely out of kilter on my setup....sometimes they will respond and other times not at all, and I still maintain however that there are things wrong with input/response translation (at least with my kit).

@ManfromX yes mate that is what I was getting at in the first post when I mentioned I had already fixed the 25% throttle movement 100% response thing, I did that pretty sharply in the same manner and my config is similar to yours except that I went full right I think. Cheers anyway X. Smile2


Last edited by Biggles07; 04/03/11 04:09 AM.

"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals".

Sir Winston Churchill
#3258199 - 04/03/11 05:20 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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Don't have the sim running at the moment, but there should be a knob to pull or twist, to cage (lock) the gyro in the artificial horizon. All aerobatics capable planes today have them, at least. This should be done BEFORE you upset the gyros too much smile.

#3258553 - 04/03/11 10:44 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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After some testing I´m quite sure now that the attitude inicator is not bugged. While standing on the ground with your engine off the AI is just hanging around. Then after engine start you´ll notice during the run-up as suction starts to build that the AI is coming to life and finally indicating correct (Quite a cool feature imho). It will inicate as it is suposed to do until you stress it over its limits (Which happens quite fast, there is a good reason why you should only make standard rate turns while flying in instrument conditions). I don´t believe that these early instruments had the possibility to cage them, at least i couldn´t find the button on some old cockpit photos (Even today many smaller IFR equipped planes don´t have one and the technology back in those days was far from advanced). I wonder if they also modeled gyro drift for the gyro compass. At least there is a working adjust button in the cockpit. The more of those details I discover the more I fall in love with this sim!

Last edited by wannabe; 04/03/11 10:45 PM.
#3258625 - 04/03/11 11:53 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: wannabe]  
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Biggles07 Offline
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Originally Posted By: wannabe
After some testing I´m quite sure now that the attitude inicator is not bugged. While standing on the ground with your engine off the AI is just hanging around. Then after engine start you´ll notice during the run-up as suction starts to build that the AI is coming to life and finally indicating correct (Quite a cool feature imho). It will inicate as it is suposed to do until you stress it over its limits (Which happens quite fast, there is a good reason why you should only make standard rate turns while flying in instrument conditions). I don´t believe that these early instruments had the possibility to cage them, at least i couldn´t find the button on some old cockpit photos (Even today many smaller IFR equipped planes don´t have one and the technology back in those days was far from advanced). I wonder if they also modeled gyro drift for the gyro compass. At least there is a working adjust button in the cockpit. The more of those details I discover the more I fall in love with this sim!


Yep you were spot on wannabe, good call. thumbsup I was surprised by how easy they are to bugger though, but its a cool feature and definitely not a bug as I too hastily speculated. Smile2 I'd like to know the parameters for it, it most definitely happens after high g turns as I did some testing too after you brought that up. Nice one. Smile2


"I am fond of pigs. Dogs look up to us. Cats look down on us. Pigs treat us as equals".

Sir Winston Churchill
#3258659 - 04/04/11 12:35 AM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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They should start advertising this sim with the slogan: "Cliffs of Dover: It´s not a bug, it´s a feature!" biggrin

But seriously: I just love those little gimmicks they put into this sim!

Last edited by wannabe; 04/04/11 12:36 AM.
#3259207 - 04/04/11 01:55 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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sascha Offline
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Hmm.. I don't quite get CEM ATM.

I just took up a 109 doing a cold start. Let the engine warm up a bit on the ground, then took off. Had my oil- and water-radiators set to half open all the time (status indicator on the left wing = prolly oil, didn't seem to function like the one for water. Wouldn't move instantly when I changed settings. Anyways: I monitored my RPM quite closely and never let the engine run at more than 2300 RPM. Mostly I had it at 2200 - 2250 or so.

Monitored temperatures as well. Oil seemed to be running a bit cold, so I closed the radiator. Temperature still kept falling to around 60°. If the engine on my car is an indication, that's way too low. Should be at least 80° for optimal lubrication. Water OTOH kept rising to about 90/95°, so I openend my radiator fully and picked up some speed to improve airflow. Doing around 400 km/h indicated in level flight didn't seem to have much of an effect. Since I couldn't do anything more, I reduced boost and pitch to let the engine run at around 2000 rpm. Still: After a few minutes, the DB601 started to die on me. Full boost, but RPM were dropping and dropped even more in a climb. Full prop, full boost, RPM kept going down dramatically. Yup.. dead engine I guess.

Also: My FPS were much worse with CEM on. Empty mission, just me over France and the Channel with a flight of 4 Defiants circling somewhere over England, I got bad stutters while just flying straight and level over water at 4.5km.

Quit the mission, went back into realism options and disabled CEM.


S.


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#3259232 - 04/04/11 02:23 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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wannabe Offline
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Take a look at the bf109 manual: *Click*

I try to fly it according to the book and have no problem keeping the engine running. Take note that the oiltemperature gauge showas the intake temperature for the oil, so according to the book the max continuous temperature should be between 30 and 75 degrees. Also watch your rpm´s closely, the 109er has no constant speed prop like the spit, so when changing your speed it happens quite fast that you overev that poor Daimler.
Stick with CEM, after you get used to it you never want to miss the extra fun you have with it!

#3259239 - 04/04/11 02:27 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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My extra throttle quadrant came today so I hooked it up and went into the game, to set up CEM on the Ju88.

Puh.

Each engine shows five sliders on the screen. I have four of each identified:

Throttle
Prop pitch
Supercharger
Water radiator

If the 5th one is the oil-rad the buttons won't map for it.

One of the fuel cocks (#2) won't map to a button.

Neither of the magnetos will map to a button.

Using the prop-pitch levers makes the revs and engine-tone fall but there is no apparent effect while on the ground or flying. I would have expected increased pitch to make the revs fall. The slider on the screen shows the correct direction of lever travel, so it's not a case of me having them mapped back to front. Levers back, slider goes down, revs fall. If back = reduced pitch I would expect the revs to rise.

Regardless of the above I managed to get the motors started and took off. Flew around for about half an hour, the temp-gauges showed ok (rads 50% open). The super-charger levers had no apparent effect.

I couldn't get the plane to be Luftwaffe, I had to fly as a Brit with roundels from a UK base. Which felt appropriate, because when the plane was captured it obviously got real beat up and loads of bits stopped working. My co-pilot commented: "This is a bit crap, isn't it sir." I landed the bus in a field, wheels up, and told a farmer he could use it for storing hay or something.


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#3259263 - 04/04/11 02:41 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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sascha Offline
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I wish I could wannabe, but my lack of a HOTAS-throttle and, more importantly, the dramatic loss of FPS prolly will mean I'll leave it off for the time being ...


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#3259285 - 04/04/11 02:56 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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I can't understand why CEM would impact fps, but not a lot will suprise me anymore in regard to this broken mess. I don't think there's a single part of this game that doesn't have at least one bug. Patience with this one is truly going to be a virtue.


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#3259292 - 04/04/11 02:59 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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sascha Offline
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Quote:
I can't understand why CEM would impact fps, but not a lot will suprise me anymore in regard to this broken mess.


Me neither... more calculations going on due to more complex simulation of systems?

I hadn't noticed it either before when I first experimented with CEM, but today it was unmistakable. Started the exact same mission again with CEM off, and all was back to normal.


S.

Last edited by sascha; 04/04/11 03:00 PM.

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#3259330 - 04/04/11 03:18 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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Para_Bellum Offline
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I've flown the 109 for several hours now, never had a problem with the CEM either.


"...late afternoon the Air Tasking Order came in [and] we found the A-10 part and we said, "We are going where!? We are doing what!?"

Capt. Todd Sheehy, Hog pilot, on receiving orders during Operation Desert Storm

#3259346 - 04/04/11 03:33 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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Vitesse Offline
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Geoffrey Wellum mentions caging in First Light - that was on Harvards during training. Poor cockpit drill (not uncaging) resulted in the death of a fellow trainee. Don't know about British machines...

Nice to hear about the features in COD.

Cheers!

#3259437 - 04/04/11 05:06 PM Re: Seriously bugged CEM [Re: Biggles07]  
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You should be able to re-set the AI once it topples. But why would you? Voluntary instrument flying is a symptom of some fairly fundamental character flaw, or worse.

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