Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Hop To
#3255744 - 04/01/11 06:54 PM Neg g engine cut-outs?  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Mace71 Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Mace71  Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Veteran

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Darlington, UK.
Are negative g engine cut-outs modelled? It didnt seem so when flying the spit and hurri....


Antec 902 | Intel i7 920 2.66Ghz OC'd to 3.40GHz | MSI GeForce GTX 660 Black Knight 2048MB GDDR5 | Corsair 6GB DDR3 | Coolermaster V8 CPU Cooler | W7 64

"There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle
Inline advert (2nd and 3rd post)

#3255749 - 04/01/11 06:58 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
BKHZ_Furbs Offline
Senior Member
BKHZ_Furbs  Offline
Senior Member

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,818
You got CEM turned on?

#3255759 - 04/01/11 07:07 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 135
calmer133 Offline
Member
calmer133  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 135
Lowestoft, UK
The plane should do what it does, even if you haven't got the fiddly knob thing turned on. Non CEM should mean that the AI manages the fiddly bits. It should not mean that the plane behaves in an unrealistic manner.

Broken software.

#3255795 - 04/01/11 07:39 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,121
sascha Offline
Member
sascha  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,121
Munich, Germany
^Agreed. I already posted something to the effect that realism settings could use a lot more options. Including a seperate option for "neg-G cutout on/off".

Maybe if they hadn't bothered putting all these "can't jump to another plane"-options in there ... biggrin



S.


System: Asus P5Q-E - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300@ 2.5 GHz (currently @3.0 GHz) - Gigabyte GF GTX460 1GB OC - 2x2 GB OCZ DDR2-RAM - Samsung P2370 23'' - MS Sidewinder 2 FF (red trigger, baby!) - Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals - TrackIR 5 + Pro-Clip - Windows Vista 64 Home Premium
#3255806 - 04/01/11 07:46 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: BKHZ_Furbs]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 858
sharpe26 Offline
Member
sharpe26  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 858
Maastricht, Holland
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
You got CEM turned on?


correct answer.


I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.
#3255819 - 04/01/11 07:50 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: sharpe26]  
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 135
calmer133 Offline
Member
calmer133  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 135
Lowestoft, UK
Originally Posted By: sharpe26
Originally Posted By: BKHZ_Furbs
You got CEM turned on?


correct answer.


Wrong mate. Engine management is different from engine performance. AI engine management should manage the knob fiddling. It should not change how the engine works. The carb should cut out with neg-g regardless of whether it is me or AI doing the knob fiddle thing. Pretty basic really screwy

#3255862 - 04/01/11 08:09 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Mace71 Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Mace71  Offline
Dread pirate Mace
Veteran

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 15,827
Darlington, UK.
I havent got CEM on. Are you saying with it on the engine cuts out under neg g's?


Antec 902 | Intel i7 920 2.66Ghz OC'd to 3.40GHz | MSI GeForce GTX 660 Black Knight 2048MB GDDR5 | Corsair 6GB DDR3 | Coolermaster V8 CPU Cooler | W7 64

"There is only one way to avoid criticism: do nothing, say nothing and be nothing." Aristotle
#3255865 - 04/01/11 08:11 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 858
sharpe26 Offline
Member
sharpe26  Offline
Member

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 858
Maastricht, Holland
Originally Posted By: MaceUK33
I havent got CEM on. Are you saying with it on the engine cuts out under neg g's?


with the Spit and that on, my experience is yes. With the Hurricane and without it; no.


I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.
#3256005 - 04/01/11 09:43 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
IvanK Offline
Member
IvanK  Offline
Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 916
Aus
Yes -ve G cut outs are there and imo are overdone. Its not possible to perform a slow lowering of the nose say setting up a gradual descent without the engine coughing. I wouldnt mind the -ve G issue with a solid -1 to -2G push but coughing when setting up a gradual descent using perhaps only 0.8G in the nose position change is crazy

#3256034 - 04/01/11 10:02 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,121
sascha Offline
Member
sascha  Offline
Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,121
Munich, Germany
Quote:
I wouldnt mind the -ve G issue with a solid -1 to -2G push but coughing when setting up a gradual descent using perhaps only 0.8G in the nose position change is crazy



I didn't find it impossible to push the nose down slightly without the engine cutting out. Only when I pushed a bit harder, did is cut.

Remember that even when you're just sitting at your PC, you're experiencing +0.9 G. So even with 0 G (weightlessness) the thingie in your carb should stop working. -1 or -2 are pretty serious negative G already. Engine should cut out before that.


System: Asus P5Q-E - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9300@ 2.5 GHz (currently @3.0 GHz) - Gigabyte GF GTX460 1GB OC - 2x2 GB OCZ DDR2-RAM - Samsung P2370 23'' - MS Sidewinder 2 FF (red trigger, baby!) - Saitek Pro Flight Rudder Pedals - TrackIR 5 + Pro-Clip - Windows Vista 64 Home Premium
#3256111 - 04/01/11 10:45 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: sascha]  
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 129
Winny Offline
Member
Winny  Offline
Member

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 129
The engine will start to cut out under any ammount of negative G, this is why it was such a problem to the RAF and why diving away in a 109 was so effective.

It will add a new dimension to the 109 vs Spit dogfights.
I think it should be available option wise aside from CEM , just for those who really don't want to be worrying about overheating whilst trying desperatley to not die.. But would like to have a go at exploiting(LW)/managing(RAF)the cut outs. It's seems that using AI engine management also means you get a bonus gravity defying carb.

#3256155 - 04/01/11 11:24 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: Mace71]  
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 77
xnomad Offline
Junior Member
xnomad  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 77
Sydney, Australia
So I'm guessing that doing a bunt against AI opponents isn't going to be of any advantage either?


i5-2500K / P67A-UD3-B3 / GTX 560TI 1GB 900MHz OC
2 x 4GB DDR3 1600MHz RAM / Samsung 500GB Spinpoint F3 7200rpm / Antec TP 750 PSU / Win 7 HP 64bit / TrackIR 5 / MSFFB2 / CH Pro Throttle / CH Pro Pedals
#3256157 - 04/01/11 11:27 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: IvanK]  
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,264
No457_Squog Offline
Squadron Leader
No457_Squog  Offline
Squadron Leader
Member

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,264
Melbourne, Australia
Originally Posted By: IvanK
Yes -ve G cut outs are there and imo are overdone. Its not possible to perform a slow lowering of the nose say setting up a gradual descent without the engine coughing. I wouldnt mind the -ve G issue with a solid -1 to -2G push but coughing when setting up a gradual descent using perhaps only 0.8G in the nose position change is crazy


I think you're right. The negative G cutout feels like it happens WAY too early. Couple that with head shake/movement means that it is VERY hard to shoot accurately at an evading target.


No457_Squog
Squadron Leader

No. 457 Squadron vRAAF
#3256775 - 04/02/11 01:29 PM Re: Neg g engine cut-outs? [Re: No457_Squog]  
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,426
KraziKanuK Online content
Hotshot
KraziKanuK  Online Content
Hotshot

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 9,426
Ottawa Canada
From Graham White's book 'Allied Piston Engines of WW2', pg 66.

An idiosyncrasy of the SU carb wasa condition known as rich "cutout" caused by -G. In fact, the -G cutout was a two stage event. At the onset of -G, fuel was forced to the top of the float chamber, which exposed the main jets to air. This caused the first momentary , lean cutout. If the -G condition continued, the floats reacted to the reverse of normal conditions and floated the wrong way, that is, they floated to the bottom of the float chamber. The needle valve opened wide, allowing full fuel pressure from the engine driven pump to flood the carb. An excessively rich mixture was then admitted into the supercharger causing the more serious rich cutout.

For a fighter pilot this could pose a severe limitation: if the stick was pushed forward a momentary loss of power or a complete cutout would result.


There was only 16 squadrons of RAF fighters that used 100 octane during the BoB.
The Fw190A could not fly with the outer cannon removed.
There was no Fw190A-8s flying with the JGs in 1945.

Moderated by  RacerGT 

Quick Search
Recent Articles
Support SimHQ

If you shop on Amazon use this Amazon link to support SimHQ
.
Social


Recent Topics
A cowboy from Texas walks into a bar in Montana
by semmern. 11/28/20 01:46 PM
Kung Fury
by Chucky. 11/26/20 08:12 PM
Need a laugh ?
by WangoTango. 11/26/20 07:02 PM
Fantasy NHL League
by WangoTango. 11/26/20 06:36 PM
Thanksgiving In America!
by Blade_Meister. 11/26/20 03:00 PM
Thanksgiving
by NoFlyBoy. 11/25/20 07:16 PM
Uh oh...
by Nixer. 11/24/20 09:12 PM
meaning of a deck of playing cards
by KraziKanuK. 11/24/20 03:27 PM
Criterion Collection BR/DVD sale
by Patrocles. 11/24/20 03:26 PM
Copyright 1997-2016, SimHQ Inc. All Rights Reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0